pawpaw edited interview

0:00

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Okay. So, my first question is, when and why did you join the military?

0:09

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

When was February of 1971, and why was because I had dropped out of high school and I needed some structure in my life, and I thought I could get in the military.

0:26

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And then what branch did you choose and why?

0:30

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

The Army, no particular reason. I just felt the Army was right for me.

0:37

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And then, I didn't write this down, but it just popped into my head. Did you know anyone, like any of your friends that got drafted or anything?

0:46

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

No, most of my friends that went in joined, but they kind of had the same reasoning I did.

0:55

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

That if you join, you have to spend an extra year, but you can choose what field you wanted to work in.

1:05

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Whereas drafted, the Army dictated where you would go, whether you'd be an infantryman or an armor or artillery or aviation, stuff like that.

1:19

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Yeah. And then, like, did any of the people you know, I guess, just general knowledge, do you know what people did to try and avoid being drafted during that time?

1:30

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

No, because the area of Kentucky that I lived in, most people there felt that if they did get drafted, it was their duty to go.

1:40

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

So, you know, they would do the two years and get out.

1:43

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Yeah.

1:44

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

But I never, none of the friends I had in high school and stuff never said, I'm going to Canada.

1:53

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Yeah.

1:53

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You know.

1:53

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Because in my class, we learned about, like, sometimes people would try and avoid it.

1:58

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

They, like, she said something about you could find, like, a doctor who would.

2:03

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Yeah, you could get your medical records altered, but the only problem with that is you could get a doctor to do it, but then they had their doctors.

2:12

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Oh.

2:13

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

So, you know, that wasn't always 100%.

2:16

S… Speaker 3 (pawpaw edited interview)

Yeah.

2:17

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

But there were a lot of people that didn't worry about it because they had things like flat feet or hard of hearing in one ear or busted eardrum or, you know, their vision wasn't good enough or.

2:31

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Yeah.

2:33

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Any number of maladies, but I never knew anybody that tried to dodge the draft.

2:42

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

I mean, there were a bunch of guys that I was with that had been drafted, you know, from around the southern region where I went through my basic training.

2:54

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

It was mainly people from Kentucky, Indiana, Tennessee, Arkansas, probably a five-state area that went to Fort Knox for their basic training.

3:06

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Well, that's a good leeway into my next question.

3:10

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

My next question was, what was your training like before going to Vietnam?

3:15

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Well, when you first go in, you've got eight weeks of what they call basic training.

3:20

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And that's pretty much stripping everything that you know about civilian life and the way of life and how you did things to a military the way the military wanted you to think.

3:34

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And to do things not, it takes away your individuality, even today.

3:41

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

The first thing they do is take away your individuality.

3:44

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You become a part of a team or a part of a team or a part of the machine.

3:57

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Do you think that was beneficial or do you think they should be less?

4:01

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Well, no.

4:03

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

If you're going to war, you have to, you cannot be in the military, period, any branch, and be an individual.

4:14

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Everything down to the minute is in fours.

4:18

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You have like four-man squad, you have like four sergeants or four captains, or everything is done in fours up to, and I mean, now you have a four-man squad.

4:33

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You might have a 30-man platoon, and then a 200-man company, and then a 500-man battalion, and a 1,000-man brigade.

4:47

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

But everything is broken down where no one person is thought of.

4:56

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You're not thought of as a person.

4:58

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You're thought of.

5:00

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

of the team okay and then what was a typical day like when you were deployed when i was deployed

5:13

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

well when i first got to vietnam probably about the first month while they're waiting

5:20

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

to decide where they're going where you're most needed or where they're going to assign you to

5:25

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

in vietnam you pulled guard duty and it's like any other fort that you see on tv in the cowboy days

5:34

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

and stuff you've got the company area here where everybody lives and stays and stuff and you got a

5:41

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

perimeter which circles the compound and then they've got guard posts set up and at night men two

5:51

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

men two men or four men depending on how big the bunker was or the uh where you stayed two or four

5:58

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

men would guard and they would be every so often and you would be watching to make sure the enemy

6:05

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

didn't try and sneak in i did that for the first month and then when i got my assignment

6:12

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

they flew me down towards saigon which is the capital of south vietnam and it was

6:19

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

it was a air base called benoit and there then they assigned me to my flight squad and started

6:29

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

learning again even though while after after basic training you go to what they call ait which is

6:37

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

advanced individual training and that that was a three-week school to teach me how to shoot a machine

6:44

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

gun out of a helicopter and then nine weeks of how to work on helicopters and maintain them and so

6:52

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

after and that was 12 weeks well of course when i got through with all of that training

6:59

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

my basic training of my ait i was too young still to be set to vietnam you had to be at least 18

7:05

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

and i was only 17. oh i thought you had to be 18 to go in the first place you could go in the army

7:11

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

at set back then now i don't know what it's like today if it's still that way but you could go in

7:16

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

the army at 17 back then if you had your parents signature so my mom had to track down my dad who

7:23

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

was out in california at the time living out in california they were divorced and he signed the

7:29

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

paperwork and mailed it back and then my mom signed it and then that's how i could go in at 17.

7:37

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

and you go through all your training and everything at 17 but you just couldn't you couldn't be deployed

7:44

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

to the war and how many how long were you there in vietnam yeah 11 11 and a half months from january

7:55

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

9th to december 23rd so it was almost a full year did you stay in like the same area or did you move

8:01

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

around a lot uh we only moved we stayed at the same compound but we moved out from one area to nas

8:10

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

as vietnam was winding down i was over there in 1972 as vietnam was winding down and they were sending

8:19

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

troops home they consolidated the companies that were left that were all over and they just you know

8:29

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

brought them down into a small area confined to a small area that they could protect better

8:36

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

so it was only two times and i mean it was like moving from here to a mile over here you know is it

8:47

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

common to stay in the same place for all branches or no most companies battalions brigades regiments they

8:56

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

were they had a main al which is an area of operations and like the first calf was in the south

9:05

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

then you had the 82nd in the middle and then you had 101st up in the north vietnam was south vietnam

9:13

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

was split into three sections well actually four the other one was mainly by the navy and what they

9:20

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

what we call the macon delta which is kind of swamplands kind of like louisiana is with the

9:27

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

mississippi river and stuff you know and so most of getting around was in boats but i was in three

9:39

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

core i believe it was i think it was went i core two core three core and four core as you go down

9:47

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

from the north to the south and the first calf they had the whole you had the northern

10:00

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

central highlands than central and then the mekong delta and we operate both in the central

10:08

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

and some of the mekong delta um and what was the question i don't remember i just asked you

10:19

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

oh is that something off topic oh well it was what it was about oh i think i was asking you about

10:26

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

moving around like if oh yeah no no no we didn't see when i first came into

10:32

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

country i came in up north in the two corps into a place called cameron bay and then

10:41

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

when i got assigned my permanent unit they flew me down there and that's where i stayed

10:47

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

the other ten months so my next question my next question was were you aware of the political

10:59

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

debates about the war while you were serving and did that affect the morale was i what

11:04

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

aware of the political debates about the war while you were serving yeah 17 18 years old nah we knew

11:12

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

that you know especially by 1972 that not so much riots there weren't there it was a lot of protesting

11:21

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

and demonstration and there were a lot of vietnam vets that had been over there early and stuff like

11:27

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

that but we're when you're especially in that day and age you weren't as a soldier you weren't allowed

11:34

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

to be political you weren't allowed to have an opinion whether you were a liberal or republican

11:39

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

conservative you were a soldier and that's all you thought about so politics were no we never said uh

11:48

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

in in in the army or in vietnam particularly we never did say president johnson is a dickhead or

11:57

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

yeah you know i mean there was never any you didn't have that discussion and especially if any of the

12:03

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

senior cadre sergeants and stuff if i heard you talking about it they'd nip it in the bud real quick

12:10

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

get your mind on your get your mind on your job you haven't got time for politics yeah i guess that

12:16

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

makes sense here's my more specific fun questions that i was interested about the first ones what

12:27

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

weapons did u.s soldiers carry during the war what did you carry was any of it new tech

12:35

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

well it was new tech for the day i guess you know um yeah there wasn't except for the helicopters the

12:43

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

helicopters were new tech instead of you know taking equipment out into the field transporting troops

12:53

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

like riding on tanks or deuce and a half which were the big trucks transport trucks

12:58

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

uh you know my personal uh weapons system was um we had we each on each side of the helicopter

13:22

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

had an m60 machine gun that was mounted but you you mounted it up you turned it in at night when

13:29

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

you come in from your mission to the armory and then in the morning you checked it out you took it

13:34

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

cleaned it made sure it was ready to go and attached it to the helicopter that was your main weapon

13:43

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

and then we also carried an m16 and i had 45 sidearm so you had a rifle a machine gun handgun

13:56

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

the handgun was the same one that you gave jacob like the same model 1911 45 yeah it was m60 machine

14:04

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

gun m16 rifle and and that the m16 rifle was the main rifle that the infantry that that was the main

14:13

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

military issue weapon that the army used at that time that and that was high tech because they were

14:20

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

they were converting over from the old world war ii and korean war m1 carbine which was a rifle basically

14:29

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

like a hunting rifle and it had a five round clip that you would pop the clip in you could fire off

14:36

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

five rounds and push a button it would drop off and you'd throw another one up those were by the time

14:42

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

i was over there those were almost extinct they were very few that they weren't even being issued

14:49

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

some may have had them from earlier and they were still using them but they also carried their m16

14:55

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

some may have had them from here and it was early

14:56

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

and it was early

14:57

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

and it was early

14:57

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

and it was early

14:59

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

early

14:59

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Thank you.

15:00

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Vietnam from 65 to 75. So probably about 65, 66, right after we went into Vietnam, they issued,

15:10

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

they made the M16 the official army gun for combat troops. So yeah, that was probably the

15:21

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

highest tech we had. Whereas the M1 carbine was little five round clip, the little five round

15:28

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

clip, where the M16, you could put a 20 and later on convert it to a 30 round clip, a banana clip,

15:36

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

and you could either fire one shot or switch it and you fire three shots like a three shot machine

15:45

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

gun, or you set it on fully automatic and shoot right through the whole clip on machine gun.

15:52

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

The M1 carbine, it was just one, one, one, one, one, change clip, one, one, one, one, one. So it increased

15:59

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

the soldier's firepower exponentially. Yeah. You know, he could kill a lot faster, a lot more.

16:08

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

But that, I would say, that was probably, uh, at that time period, the high tech, I mean,

16:17

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

pilots didn't have, we couldn't fly at night because they didn't have infrared or, you know,

16:22

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

night vision. We didn't have any of that. We had what they call the FLIR. It was a forward looking,

16:31

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

infrared, uh, that you could, it was like a scope that you could look through. And we had that one,

16:39

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

we were on guard duty and stuff. You could look out and see if there was anybody, anybody's creeping

16:45

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

towards your area, you know. It's crazy how much it's changed since then. Like Jacob was saying that

16:53

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

we barely even send people anymore, I guess. Well, you know, with precision bombing, I mean,

17:01

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

the only bombing we had over there, well, of course, the, the fighter jets carried bombs,

17:06

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

the F-4 Phantom jets, they, they carried bombs under their wings and stuff, but only two or three

17:12

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

on each side. And they couldn't be very big. I don't think they could be much more than 500. I think

17:21

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

most of the time they carried a hundred pounders, but then they had the B-52s that they used daily

17:31

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

by, by the ton of bombs by the tons. Each, each B-52 could carry, I don't know, 20 tons of bombs

17:41

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

of 500 pounders. So it's like 40, 40, 50, 60, depending on the size of them, how many they could drop.

17:48

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And they would fly in flights of three, and they would be stationed out of Vietnam.

17:54

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

They're in Vietnam, they'd be like in the Philippines or in Thailand or something like that.

18:00

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And they would, they were used a lot in the South, but they were also used in the North,

18:06

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

in North Vietnam, which, of course, you had, that's what the war was about. The North was wanting to suck

18:13

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

in, and they were communists, and the South was trying to stay democratic, which it really wasn't

18:20

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

democratic, but that's what everybody says. It was democratic. They had a president. But anyways,

18:30

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

those B-50Ts, they could, they, they were so powerful, the flights of three, they say that they

18:36

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

could level an area a mile wide and three miles long. It's called carpet bombing, and they,

18:45

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

they'd be in a three flight formation, and they'd just release the bombs. And if you were five miles

18:52

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

away, the ground would shake. You always, you always knew when you started hearing the, hearing

19:00

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

the explosions, you looked up in the sky, and about 30, 35,000 feet, you'd see the contrails

19:07

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

of the three B-52s. Yep. That's a, that's an airstrike.

19:13

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

It's scary.

19:15

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

It's scary.

19:15

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Yeah. I'd have never wanted to have been on receiving that end aid underneath it, you know,

19:19

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

because I mean, you figure a mile wide, anything within a mile wide, and three miles long, it's

19:26

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

completely obliterated. You could hear it?

19:28

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Oh yeah, you could hear it.

19:30

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Is it loud?

19:30

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Oh yeah. Like I said, it shook the ground, but you can hear them as they go off. I mean,

19:37

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

it's like a, some kind of big, giant, massive machine gun.

19:42

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Yeah.

19:43

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Because, and it lasts with the three of them, it probably takes a full five minutes from

19:52

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

the time the first bomb is dropped to the last one explodes. There's so many bombs and everything

19:59

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

they, that.

19:59

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Yeah.

20:00

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You know, it takes a long time for all of them to hit the ground and explode, so it's just like five minutes.

20:08

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And then after a while, if you're close enough, within four or five miles, you can see the smoke rising from them and everything.

20:18

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

My next question, this is tying in very well.

20:23

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

How did our American weapons compare to the North Vietnamese weapons?

20:29

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Well, now, the most specific thing that they, and a lot of you got to understand now, the Chinese and the Russians were aiding North Vietnam and providing them with weapons.

20:41

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

The jets that the North Vietnamese had were MiGs that were made in Russia and stuff.

20:49

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And the guns, the AK, they had, our main weapon was the AK for the soldier in the field, was the M16.

20:59

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Their gun was the AK-47, which is the Russian who invented it, and I don't know how to pronounce it, and drop off Kalashnikov.

21:12

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

So, it was AK, and I don't know where they got the 47 from.

21:18

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

But, the AK against the M16, a lot of American troops, whenever they killed Vietnamese, and they could get their guns and ammunition, they would take the AK.

21:31

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Because the two guns have a completely different, distinct sound.

21:37

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And, you know, of course, if the enemy heard the M16, they knew the troops were around.

21:43

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

But, if they heard the AK, they would think that it was their guys, you know, until later on in the war when they finally got smart and said,

21:52

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Hey, they're using our guns against us, you know.

21:55

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

But, they were also, the AK, when you were in the bush, an infantryman in the bush and stuff,

22:06

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

you would go out on patrols and stuff for 30 days at a time.

22:09

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And, you would constantly, between the heat and the rain, there was certainly, like their wintertime was called the monsoon season.

22:20

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And, it, like, rained every day for, like, three months.

22:24

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And, everything would be soaked and saturated.

22:27

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

So, you were, you know, many, many people got jungle rot on their feet and everything because their feet stayed continually wet.

22:37

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And, you were constantly walking through marshes and swamps and everything and your gun was getting into all kinds of things.

22:46

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

The M16, if you did not constantly clean it, would have a tendency to jam or to misfire or something like that.

22:55

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

It would become faulty.

22:57

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Where the AK, it didn't matter what you did with it, the thing would fire.

23:01

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You pull a trigger and it's going to fire, you know.

23:03

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And, they didn't have that kind of, but, you know, the AK-47 was kind of a, I guess, because Russia had always been a war country,

23:16

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

you know, they designed their stuff to be rugged and take it.

23:21

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Whereas, the Americans, you know, they just, they're looking for efficiency.

23:25

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

How many rounds can they get to go through this gun at a time?

23:29

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Where the AK, the Russians, they didn't do that.

23:32

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

They said, you know, being, and they only had one shot at a time or fully automatic machine gun.

23:40

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

They didn't have three shot, you know.

23:42

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Who cares about three shot, you know.

23:44

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You're either going to shoot one guy and kill him or you're going to shoot at a whole bunch of guys on machine gun, you know.

23:52

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

What's the sense, what does three rounds popping off do for you?

23:57

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Yeah, the AK was definitely a lot of military, brass, higher-ups and everything.

24:04

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Considered the AK a superior weapon to the M16.

24:09

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Now, that's, like I said back then, that's when the M16 first came out.

24:15

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And since then, you know, they were probably, I don't even, yeah, they still use the M16,

24:24

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

but it's, like, probably 20 or 30 generations old, you know, so it's been refined over the decades.

24:33

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

So, was it hard for y'all to, like, I guess, adjust to the weather and terrain and all that?

24:39

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

It took some getting used to because it was always hot and it was always humid.

24:46

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And we're never, it's not, even Texas, like now, you know, the humidity is not very bad and stuff.

24:54

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And as you move into the spring, the temperatures get up into the 80s, but the humidity stays down.

25:00

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

But then you get into June, July, and August where the heat with the humidity and everything just makes your hair go pfft, you know, and it's just, magnify that ten times in Vietnam with all the jungles, I mean there's nothing but jungles and stuff like that, so it's just, you're trapped in the jungle or flying, even when you're flying, you know, heat rises and we fly with our doors open.

25:30

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

It would still be scorching, you'd think with the wind coming in and everything, you know, you'd be cool, but I mean it was just like breathing heavy air, it was so hot, you know.

25:42

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Yeah, I don't think I could do the rain for that long.

25:45

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

The rain was a problem because when it rained, we didn't fly that much, you know, because I mean it cuts down on visibility and, you know, they're not wanting to send men and machines out in the rain, you know, from a dry area, just take them out and insert them.

26:06

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Because for the most part, most of the men, when they got in helicopters, you'd have usually four to six men sitting in a bench seat across from one side to the other,

26:19

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

and then you'd have six men, three on each side, sitting with their legs hanging out, sitting on the floor with their legs hanging out the helicopter.

26:27

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

So, boy, we always, a lot of helicopters didn't even have doors on, but we had doors, but, you know, you were always exposed to the elements.

26:41

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

So, you spent a lot of time in the helicopters?

26:47

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Yeah, well, pretty much from sunup to sunset.

26:50

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

I mean, as we were out there getting ready to leave, getting prepping, we'd have breakfast.

26:58

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

We'd get up probably 4, 35 o'clock in the morning, get shawed and shaved and everything, have breakfast, and be at the flight line around 6 or so.

27:13

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And get the helicopter ready to go, and by the time you got everything ready to go, the sun was coming up, it was getting light enough to take off.

27:24

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And so we'd take off, and we'd go out, we'd go to different areas, and we would do our refueling and stuff at other places that they had set up.

27:36

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Temporary places that did stuff like half fuel and everything, refueling dumps, that's what we call them, fuel dumps.

27:44

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And we'd always fuel up out in the field because you could only fly two, two and a half, maybe three hours at a time without getting fueled up.

27:57

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And so, but we wouldn't come back to our refueling.

28:01

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

We couldn't, we didn't fly back to our area of operations, AL, until we were done with the day's missions.

28:12

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And sometimes they would be all, we'd fly, we'd fly from our place and go to another base where there were troops that were getting ready to go out into the field.

28:23

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And we'd fly into 10 or 20 helicopters to land.

28:28

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And each helicopter was assigned X number of troops, and they'd all get in all 10 or 12 birds.

28:37

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And after they were, everybody was loaded, first one would take off, and as the second one's taken, first one's taken off, the second one would come up.

28:45

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And then they would fly in formations, usually four helicopters, three to four helicopter formations, sets of three or four.

28:54

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And then take, take the troops, stop, take the troops out to the field and drop them wherever they were going to go, try and make contact with the enemy or stuff, or into an area that had enemy.

29:07

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And that's when we would take fire or we'd talk, they'd tell us, tell the crew, I was a gunner and a crew chief, but at first when I was a gunner, the pilots would say, we're going in cold.

29:22

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Which means, just stand by, don't shoot your guns.

29:26

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

If they said, we're going into a hot LZ, I mean, as we're going in, we're opening up on the machine guns, suppressing enemy fire, because they're shooting at us and shooting at the troops in the helicopter.

29:40

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

So we'd go in hot, and until we landed, most of the time we didn't really land, we couldn't really land because the ground was too soft or muddy or wet.

29:51

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

So we'd be like, maybe a foot or two off the ground, and they would jump out, and they would get away from it.

29:59

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And I mean,

30:00

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

It's all like, it's like poetry in motion.

30:03

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Come in, you're on a short final, you kind of hover to a stop,

30:09

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

and most of the time you didn't even get completely stopped.

30:13

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

All six guys in the door are already out,

30:17

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

and then the others sitting on the bed seats are getting to the doors and jumping out.

30:22

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And then we take off, and all that happens in a matter of 15, 20 seconds.

30:27

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Oh, wow.

30:28

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You know, it was, because, especially, you know, if it was hot.

30:33

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Now, if it wasn't a hot area, you know, and the land allowed us,

30:37

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

we'd kind of bump down, touch down, and they could kind of step down on the ground.

30:42

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

But if we were taking enemy fire and everything going into a hot L.C.,

30:48

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

it was kind of off the go, you know.

30:53

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

That was the first time I ever did that, went in on a hot L.C.,

31:00

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

scared the living poop out of me, because I didn't know we were taking fire.

31:08

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

I was the door gunner, and a door gunner sits on the right side of the helicopter with a co-pilot.

31:15

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

No pilots up here on the right side.

31:18

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

The aircraft commander, A.C. commander, he's in the left seat,

31:22

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

and the crew chief is in the left seat, back in the back.

31:27

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And the pilots were taking fire, because they could see the muscle flashes and the tracers.

31:35

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

We had bullets, and they had bullets, that, like, in the military,

31:41

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

the military way it was set up, every fifth round you shot was called a tracer,

31:48

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

which, it was a bullet, but it also had, you could see it, it was red.

31:52

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

It was like a flare, almost.

31:55

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And you could, when you're firing real fast, it'll make a line.

31:58

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You could see where they're coming from.

32:00

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

But the North Vietnamese, their tracers were green.

32:04

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

So if you ever seen green tracers coming at you, you know, and they're not friendly.

32:08

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Of course, the enemy, the friendlies wouldn't be shooting at you.

32:15

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And anyways, I was, and when you're 18, you just feel invincible.

32:19

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You feel like, I always say it, like cock of the walk.

32:22

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You ever heard the expression, cock of the walk?

32:24

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Look it up.

32:25

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And they've got restaurants and stuff called cock of the walk, you know.

32:29

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

I mean, it's not meant as a sexual or derogatory kind of cock.

32:34

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

It's like a game cock or a rooster, you know.

32:38

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And that's what you felt like.

32:40

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You felt like you were invincible.

32:42

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And once you got your M60 going, you're standing behind your M60,

32:46

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

it's like, nothing can touch me.

32:48

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Nothing can touch me, you know.

32:50

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And, of course, a lot of guys were killed while they were doing that.

32:52

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

But, you know, you still, killed or not, feel like you're at the moment,

32:57

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

you know, nothing can touch you.

32:59

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And so it was, you know, it was terrifying going in and everything.

33:06

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

But then you're caught up, your adrenaline is just pumped

33:09

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

and you're pure adrenaline pumping, you know.

33:15

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Unlike being young boys in war, you know,

33:20

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

it's almost like they're reliving their days watching Cowboys and Indians

33:25

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

or the Calvary or, you know, war on TV and stuff, John Wayne war movie

33:31

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

or something like that, you know.

33:32

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You almost feel like you're in that situation, you know.

33:35

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And the good guys never die, you know.

33:38

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

It's crazy to, like, I saw the pictures of you and all your people

33:42

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

and then just being, you know, 21 now.

33:46

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

When I was younger, you look at people who are soldiers or you learn about it

33:50

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

and you're like, oh, they're so old.

33:52

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

But then you get to, I'm 21 and I think of me at 18 and I'm like, oh, my God,

33:56

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

I was a baby who knew nothing.

33:57

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Like, you guys were all just, like, babies.

33:59

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You know, it's kind of like when I used to ask them, you know,

34:03

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

when they were 17 and 18, I said, shit, or 19.

34:07

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Hell, when I was 19, I'd already gone in the Army,

34:11

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

spent three years in the Army and gone to Vietnam and back at 19, you know.

34:15

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And here you are, you know, you're still a little snot-nosed kid at 19,

34:19

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

you know, what the hell.

34:22

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

I wouldn't wish any 19-year-old to have to go into battle,

34:25

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

but that's why the old men since the beginning of any, well, any country

34:33

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

and any soldiers, they know, I mean, they've learned over centuries of war

34:39

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

and that the young virtually feel immortal.

34:45

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

They're not going to die, you know.

34:47

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

I'm 18, I'm not going to die.

34:50

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And so they're more willing to go to war.

34:54

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

If we had people over 30 to go to war, it'd be a snot.

35:00

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Slaughter, you know, especially our country today when 70% of the country is obese, you know.

35:07

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Yeah.

35:07

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And that's going from junior high school all the way up to senior citizenship, you know.

35:14

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You know, that doesn't say much.

35:16

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

I mean, you look at when they're showing on TV on CNN or Fox or whatever, the Chinese army,

35:23

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

and you see these massive waves of people in lockstep marching.

35:29

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Oh, snap.

35:30

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

I mean, dressed to the nines in their military uniforms.

35:34

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And every movement is done as one.

35:37

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You've got a parade of one group of men, 10,000 men, marching down their big boulevard.

35:43

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And it's like every movement, it's all in unison, total, complete unison,

35:50

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

which means they've been brainwashed by their military.

35:54

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And that's what we are as kids going in.

35:57

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

We're brainwashed by our military.

35:59

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You know, and, you know, one of the first things they do when you go in is they teach you to march.

36:06

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You always start with your left foot.

36:08

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You count in fours.

36:10

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

One, two, three, four.

36:11

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Up, two, three, four.

36:12

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Stuff like that.

36:15

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And how to turn, how to make a marching turn or a half right.

36:20

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

They call it a half right, which is instead of making a right turn and you make a right turn,

36:26

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

they'll say a half right and you kind of make a half a turn.

36:30

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

They taught us how to walk like that.

36:31

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

We had to walk like that for drill team.

36:33

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Yeah, drill team and Aggieland.

36:36

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

I mean, Aggies.

36:36

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

The core does it.

36:38

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

But, yeah, on drill team we had to learn how to walk.

36:42

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

But that's one of the strongest things to teach unity for a unit is marching together.

36:48

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Because everybody has to be, have the same thought going, start out on your left foot.

36:54

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Everybody stays left, right, left, right, left, right, up, two, three, four, up, two, three, four.

36:59

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And they've seen cadences to that that has the one, two, three, four rhythm.

37:04

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

So, you know, always saying up, two, three, four.

37:07

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

You sing, you know, I don't know, but I've been told military is very old, you know.

37:13

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

I think the drill sergeants, they do it in such that you're, when they emphasize words,

37:20

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

your right foot's hitting or your left foot's hitting, you know.

37:23

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

But that's, as simple as it may sound, that's one big thing they use to teach unity is marching.

37:34

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Next question was, oh, how did y'all, like, communicate with each other?

37:40

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Like, I don't know, like, I know you don't have, like, a cell phone.

37:44

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

You got, like, a radio?

37:45

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Well, if you were on the ground, it was through a walkie-talkie type setup or an FM old backpack carried FM type radio,

37:57

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

UHF radio, that the backpack was the power unit.

38:02

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

It was the batteries and the circuitry.

38:06

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And then you had a, you hung up, like, a little phone receiver on your shirt and you would talk.

38:13

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And you would, and it had a big, long metal whip for an antenna and it was foldable.

38:20

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And whenever you're trying, you know, like, trying to talk to the helicopters or the jet fighters where to drop their bombs or this, that, and the other,

38:29

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

that they would talk, the people on the ground would talk to whoever they needed to through that radio.

38:35

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

On the helicopters, we had, we had, as crew members, we had, well, even the pilots,

38:43

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

had probably five or five to ten different frequencies of things going on.

38:48

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And they would all blare.

38:51

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And that's one reason why most vets, Vietnam vets, because helmets would, radios inside of them were kind of new.

39:01

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And they weren't, there wasn't a real lot of volume control in it.

39:06

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And you had static constantly.

39:08

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And I think that's where the ringing in my ears came from, is the static was always there.

39:14

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Nobody's talking, but you still had static.

39:17

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

There was no way to stop the white noise.

39:21

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And that, my hearing was affected too, but the VA denied my hearing, but they gave me the tinnitus.

39:29

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

They gave me a rating for the tinnitus, the ringing, constant ringing.

39:34

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

And so, we had one channel that had music where you could listen to radio, what they call it, AFVM, American, AFVM.

39:53

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

It was AFVM, but I don't remember what the F was for, but it had to do with radio.

40:01

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

American something Vietnam and well like Robin Williams in good morning Vietnam

40:10

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

oh yeah you know that movie there that's about what we had where you know you

40:17

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

watch these old war movies about Vietnam and you hear Creedence Clearwater or

40:21

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

something like that that's what we do when we'd be flying until we get into

40:25

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

battle when we leave in the mornings and stuff we'd be listening to air Vietnam

40:31

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

and you know listen to today's music and everything and then going home at night

40:38

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

you know when we didn't have to worry that's what we did we'd listen to it but

40:44

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

it was pretty cool but I mean you had that you had the jet the frequency that

40:50

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

the Air Force was on and the jet pilots and everything frequency that the ground

40:55

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

troops were on and everything frequency for all the other helicopters that were

41:00

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

working in and out of the area that you were working in and so you know there

41:05

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

was a lot of chatter in your ears all day long you know and so it was really kind

41:10

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

of a relief at the end of the day when all the missions were done and you were

41:14

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

headed back to your AO that you could sit back in your gun well and just listen to

41:20

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

music and kind of relax and enjoy the scenery because flying was so much fun

41:24

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

yeah I'm assuming you're not afraid of heights now jet flying jets scared the

41:33

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

devil out of me and it still does today and even more so today that I'm older but

41:39

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

back then and I mean the flight to Vietnam was like 17 hours and you'd make one

41:47

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

maybe two stops to refuel on the way but and I did that I went over to Vietnam came

41:55

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

back from Vietnam went back to Vietnam came back so four trips like that and

42:00

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

that's that there those flights never bothered me of course there again you're

42:04

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

immortal you know flying didn't bother me and I always like to sit but I always

42:08

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

wanted a window seat now all I want is I'll see I sit out and yeah of course that

42:15

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

helps because you can stretch your legs out yeah you know but helicopters were

42:24

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

able if like I got shot down once while I was over I just passed the six month

42:31

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

mark and probably within a week or two before it happened I have made a comment

42:38

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

well I'm hey that's not your true toy I had made a comment well I made it six

42:49

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

months without getting shot down because they had one of the things over there

42:53

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

they had depending on what field of the military between like infantry or

42:59

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

aviation arm or anything you had a designated time sequence that like

43:06

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

aviation that they said you had a life expectancy of seven seconds once you

43:13

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

cleared the area of operation and moved into hostile territory you know I guess that

43:19

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

that meant that helicopters at that time were getting shot down about every while

43:23

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

there was loot they were losing one about every seven seconds

43:27

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

wow and they sent over probably eleven to twelve thousand helicopters during the

43:37

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Vietnam War and probably four thousand were shot down or wow crashed yeah well you

43:46

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

know World War two you had those bombers b-17 bombers and everything that had a

43:52

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

crew of ten which included four or six gunners that tail gunner you had a belly

43:58

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

gunner and you had two side gunners well with 50 caliber guns and stuff and when the

44:05

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Nazis would come up in their fighter planes they you know they big lumbering four

44:12

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

engine bombers you know they they don't have any maneuverability or anything and they'd just pull

44:17

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

up behind them and kill the tail gunner first because they'd be shooting at the back of the

44:23

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

plane they'd knock out the bubble that he was in and you know I don't know how many thousands of men

44:32

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

flight crews ten-man flight crews were killed in World War two and it was like they'd send 200 planes

44:41

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

out from England over to bomb Germany and out of the 200 planes maybe 140 would return and I mean this was

44:53

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

every mission wow you know they would have that the kill raid on on air crew over there

45:00

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And it was so bad that they had it set up that if you survived 25 trips to Germany and back without getting killed,

45:10

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

then that was your, they called it the golden ticket.

45:13

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

You get your 25th flight in, you're going home.

45:18

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

But to get that 25th flight was probably about a 90% chance you weren't going to see 25 flights.

45:26

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

That's awful.

45:27

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

You know, it was really bad in World War II.

45:29

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

So, you know, 4,000 out of 10, 12,000, like 25%, it was high.

45:38

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And not everyone was killed.

45:40

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Like when I was shot down, the four of us survived landing.

45:45

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And that's what was my main point about helicopters was they can auto rotate.

45:51

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Where as long as the rotor blades are turning and not shot off and your tail rotor's turning where the helicopter could stay balanced.

46:02

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Because if you knock out the tail rotor and just have this blade, you're going to sit there and you're going to spin like the rotor does.

46:09

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And you have no control.

46:10

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

You're going to crash and die.

46:12

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

But we got hit with a mid-air air burst, which is kind of like what you see in the war movies in World War II where bombs are exploding outside the plane.

46:24

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

You see the puffs of smoke and stuff.

46:26

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

But we got hit by one of those.

46:29

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

That's what they estimated when they recovered the helicopter in the tail section.

46:34

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

But it didn't sever the cables or anything.

46:39

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

The shrapnel just went through the body and missed any important parts.

46:44

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

So, the pilot was able to bring it down.

46:47

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

When you're auto rotating, well, the first thing he did was cut off all the power.

46:52

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Cut off the engine and everything.

46:55

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And as you're falling and the blades are turning, right before you hit, he pulls his controls and it causes the blades to flare kind of like a parachute.

47:09

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And you're falling, free-falling, and when those blades do that flare, it kind of sucks it back like a parachute opening.

47:18

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And then you hit the ground.

47:19

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And you hit it pretty hard.

47:21

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

The first time we hit it, we bounced probably about 20 feet up in the air.

47:24

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And then the second time it hit, all four of us, the pilot and co-pilot, gunner and crew chief, were out the sides.

47:32

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And the helicopter sliding down the old burnout runway from an old airport.

47:40

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And it was probably, we weren't on the ground probably five minutes.

47:44

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

We were the last, hell, I flew with my commander and we were out.

47:48

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

We were always the last ones to leave.

47:50

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

So, he made sure, our commander would make sure everybody was out safely.

47:53

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

So, all those that were five minutes ahead of us turned around and come back.

48:00

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And when they come down to the ground and the four of us just threw our, me and the crew chief, threw our guns inside and jumped in and off we went.

48:11

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

You know, so we weren't, we were lucky.

48:13

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Because had they caught us, they'd have probably kept the officers for interrogation.

48:19

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

But enlisted men, they just shot them.

48:21

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Use them for target, pin them up to the tree.

48:24

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And even some of the officers down there, they'd do that too.

48:27

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

They'd nail them up to a tree and use them for target practice.

48:30

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

You know, it was pretty gruesome.

48:32

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

That's awful.

48:35

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Wow.

48:37

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Okay, I guess we'll move to my returning home section.

48:41

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

After Vietnam, when did you return home and what was it like when you returned to the United States?

48:48

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

I went, I got in Vietnam the 9th, or the 11th of January.

48:53

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

I left the 9th.

48:54

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

I got there the 11th.

48:56

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

So I had, you had a one-year tour of duty.

49:00

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

So I wasn't set to come back until January of 73.

49:06

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Well, when you're flying, you're allowed to, 30 days before going home, you're allowed to quit flying.

49:15

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Well, when my 30 days come up, I had 30 days left in country.

49:22

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

One of the sayings we had around there was, you're short, aren't you?

49:27

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

You're not flying no more.

49:29

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

You must be short.

49:29

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And what that meant was, short was the acronym was sort of for not much time left in Vietnam.

49:37

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

Your tour is almost over.

49:42

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

So, anyways, I quit flying 30 days prior to going out or coming home.

49:49

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And I was out not even maybe a week.

49:53

S… Speaker 2 (pawpaw edited interview)

And I was working at the fuel dump, fueling helicopters that come in in the evening and stuff like that.

50:00

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

the morning and because I'd flown with them every day and everything that first

50:07

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

week watching them fly off in the morning and we stay back here in the

50:11

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

back area I didn't like it you know it was you were all alone and all your

50:16

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

friends were out there and everything and here you were sitting back here you

50:20

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

know you'd fuel helicopters up in the morning and then you go back to your

50:26

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

bunk and just kind of lay around not do anything until that they were coming

50:31

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

back in to fuel them up and so about a week later I said I think I'll go back to

50:40

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

flying I want to fly so I went back to flying and the last week and this was

50:49

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

like the 18th of December I said you know I've only got a couple weeks left I'm

50:57

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

doing quick and so I think it was like the 19th or 20th I went into my first

51:05

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

sergeant I said top we call our first sergeant top I said top come on man

51:12

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

Christmas is coming up my de-roast date which is what they call your going home

51:17

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

stuff my de-roast date is you know the ninth of January I said can't you get me

51:24

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

some mortise cuts send me home so I can be home for Christmas so nice you know

51:29

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

that's pretty hard you got an important MOS you know we got to we don't need you

51:33

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

but because you're filling a job classification slot you would get a keeper so I

51:41

S… Speaker 1 (pawpaw edited interview)

kind of resigned myself for the fact I was gonna miss Christmas and so that was the 19th or I think it was the 20th

pawpaw edited interview

အကျဉ်းချုပ်

ဒီ transcript အကြောင်းကို AI ကိုမေး