BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650

Mar 31, 2026 07:49 · 43:17 · English · Whisper Turbo · 2 Reproduktory
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0:11
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Hey, everyone. I'm coming to you from Phoenix, Arizona, where I'm recording new podcasts and new videos for you to share and to listen to.
0:18
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Today, I'm going to be doing a replay of a podcast I really enjoyed with Rich Cloud from Bank of America.
0:24
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
In this podcast, we talk about AI, digital banking, experiences, innovation, and embedded payments.
0:32
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
It's a lot in one podcast, but what he really talks about is how the focus of the innovation of Bank of America
0:38
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
is more around customer experience than technology.
0:41
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And this is what we talk about on a lot of podcasts on how important technology is,
0:46
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
but how much more important leadership and customer experience is to be the driving force, to be your North Star, if you will.
0:53
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So I hope you enjoyed this podcast, the replay from last year, late last year.
0:57
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Have a good day.
1:01
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Welcome to Banking Transformed, the top podcast in retail banking.
1:04
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I'm your host, Jim Maroose.
1:05
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
The convergence of AI, real-time payment rails, open banking, and embedded finances,
1:13
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
creating both unprecedented opportunities for innovation and certainly significant competitive pressures.
1:19
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Banks must navigate the delicate balance between embracing cutting-edge technologies such as generative AI
1:24
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and maintaining the trust and security that consumers demand.
1:28
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
In this episode of Banking Transformed, we delve into the rapidly changing ecosystem of payments with Rich Clow,
1:37
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
the head of innovation and strategy at Global Payment Solutions for Bank of America.
1:42
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
With over 25 years of experience, spanning from the early age of branchless banking to today's AI-powered solutions,
1:49
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Rich provides unique insights into the trends reshaping how we think about money, payments, and relationships.
1:56
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I've known Rich for a number of years, and it's interesting how he blends his enthusiasm for the business
2:03
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
with his pragmatic perspective on what can be done today.
2:08
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Be sure to stay on the podcast as we talk about what he'd recommend a new person coming into banking should do today,
2:15
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
as well as an experienced banker, how they can be even more successful.
2:21
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
The payments ecosystem is experiencing its most dramatic transformation in decades or maybe ever.
2:29
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
While consumers increasingly expect instant, seamless, and invisible financial experiences,
2:35
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
financial institutions are grappling with an unprecedented challenge and opportunities
2:40
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that will define the next era of banking.
2:44
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So, Rich, we've known each other for a long time,
2:47
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and this is still your first time on the show, which is kind of crazy,
2:50
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
but you've spent much of your career in the financial services industry,
2:54
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
including 16 years at Citi and the most recent seven years at Bank of America.
2:59
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
What has been the biggest change that you've seen in the industry from your perspective,
3:03
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
from where you come from in the banking world?
3:06
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Thanks, Jim. It's terrific to be here.
3:08
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I see the biggest change actually being around listening to our clients,
3:14
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
whether they be corporates or consumers, because I cover both,
3:17
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
having a discipline around experimenting responsibly and ensuring there's enough value
3:23
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
for both sides, that the consumer experience is clear and understandable,
3:27
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and that the corporates have the right amount of authorizations if it's a payment and low fraud.
3:33
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And then really making sure that what we're doing is going to scale.
3:38
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
That's really, in my experience at Citi and Bank of America,
3:41
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
in innovation roles, moving the needle by just a little bit isn't going to help.
3:47
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
We need to move the needle significantly,
3:49
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and that comes both within our own branded solutions
3:53
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and how we deliver experiences directly to our clients,
3:56
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
as well as the way we work across the ecosystem with things like Zelle or now Pays
4:01
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that we're bringing to market that will be embedded in many other kinds of use cases across banks.
4:07
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
You know, it's interesting.
4:08
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
When you talk about scale, it doesn't mean you have to be a big financial institution,
4:11
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
but what we're talking about is you've got to be able to scale within the confines of your own asset class.
4:16
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
You know, you've talked about the need for high-tech and high-touch solutions
4:21
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
in payments and really across the entire banking ecosystem.
4:25
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
How is Bank of America balancing the push towards digital-first experiences
4:31
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
while still having the human elements that really matter a lot to the consumer?
4:36
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Sure. It's a great question, Jim.
4:39
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
The balance to us is how can clients have the option to self-serve, right?
4:45
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Whether it's choosing how to load your card in a wallet,
4:48
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
whether it's setting up a bill pay,
4:50
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
or maybe you only occasionally send a wire across borders.
4:55
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And when you choose to do that the first time
4:57
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and you're setting up that recipient,
4:59
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
you might...
5:00
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
might need a little help. Okay. So for something like that, we recently redesigned our entire
5:05
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
mobile experience around setting up a wire for the first time. And it's a guided experience
5:12
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
similar to a FinTech. It has a status tracker. And then actually we use Erica for situations
5:18
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
where you may be in the middle of something and you can ask a question that will have the context
5:24
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
to where you are. It may guide you to something that may help out your answer. And if it doesn't
5:29
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
work in each case, we'll allow you to get into a secured discussion and chat through Erica that
5:36
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
brings all of that context with you. One other good example is we launched, I think four or five
5:43
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
years ago, the ability to set up an appointment in a financial center. And to us, it's really helped
5:49
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
because there are no cues. Now you have the skill of the person, if you want to talk about a loan,
5:55
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
or if you want to talk about savings for college. So now there's just also a better, more contextual
6:00
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
match of the right kind of person for matching that right intent. And you're saving time. So
6:07
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
you're not, you're not ever, you know, in line when you would really rather be getting your problem
6:12
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
solved. You know, it's interesting. A lot of the people I talked to just on the cocktail party tour
6:18
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
or whatever, just normal people. I talk a lot about the future of a genic AI and the ability
6:24
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
to actually have agents work on your behalf. Maybe it's just in the payment space. Maybe it's
6:30
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
on the flow of funds, the transfer of funds, even between organizations. But then I also talk about
6:36
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
the fact that, you know, this has been in process for quite some time, the ability to build more and
6:43
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
more personalized experiences. Bank of America, and you just mentioned it, Erica, really goes back
6:49
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
quite a ways in building conversations with consumers, as opposed to simply being transactional.
6:55
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Where does that place Bank of America in the entire overall competitive marketplace,
7:02
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
as far as what you've learned that now is deployable on a much broader scale in a much different way
7:09
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
than maybe we even knew was going to be possible three years ago? Certainly. Well, Jim, I can't
7:15
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
answer where it places us. I know a lot of people like to evaluate and consider, but what I will tell
7:21
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
you is where we find success in one line of business and consumer was the first, right? And then small
7:28
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
business for Erica, we're really building an enterprise thought process around how we serve these client
7:35
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
needs. Because in many, many cases, we have clients that overlap different lines of business, like a client
7:43
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that could be a consumer and a Merrill Lynch or private banking client, or maybe the treasurer of a global
7:49
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
corporate. So one of the things we've done over the past two years, that's really, really been a success is
7:57
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
including Erica in CashPro, which is actually our digital solution set for corporates. So now corporates,
8:04
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
like I said, a treasurer, whether you're investigating the status of a payment, whether you're trying to
8:09
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
figure out how to set up the verification of a new recipient or lots of other questions, we're starting
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S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
to incorporate it there. And I'll tell you, in the consumer model where we have been running for about
8:22
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
seven years now, we've had over 2.7 billion interactions with Erica. And in consumer for what's
8:28
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
live today, we have about a 98% success rate when clients seek to get help. On the commercial side
8:35
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
of the business with CashPro, we're making steady progress. It hasn't quite achieved that yet. You
8:40
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
know, but again, we continue to learn, we have a real discipline, we have amazing talent around how we
8:46
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
think and how we apply changes. And it's incredibly exciting to see the way we can learn and apply at the
8:53
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
scale we're operating on. Well, you know, the future is going to be our ability to capture
8:59
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
conversations and make them usable, make them so you can deploy against them. I mean, that's the
9:03
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
holy grail of that personalization matrix that we're working on. You know, another element of
9:08
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
payments that's really changed the marketplace, and it goes back a lot further than many of us will
9:14
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
remember, is that embedded finance continues to grow. In fact, it's expected to grow at a rate of
9:20
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
well over 20% annually through 2034. How do you see this trend reshaping the competitive landscape?
9:28
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And what opportunities does this create for traditional banking organizations?
9:34
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Certainly. So I always like to start with embedded finance definitionally being just that a payment is
9:42
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
within an experience that has nothing to do with a payment, right? And so as we look at that
9:47
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
through both lenses, so we have consumers that may want to use a ride share and step out and just have
9:53
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
it paid for, right? Or order food and just have it show up on their front front step. But
10:00
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Interestingly, all of these companies, all these innovative firms also need a bank because the only way to request funds or settle funds is with a bank or a banking partner.
10:11
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So we actually get to see both sides of it.
10:14
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And I think that what's going on now, when you think about the evolution of credit and debit, we've seen tremendous use, you know, as we've gone from cards and point of sale to tokens and wallets.
10:28
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And I think we've really gained a ton of benefit.
10:31
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And I remember in some of our first interactions is when we were doing the early work with Google Wallet and Apple Pay and how that was coming.
10:38
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
What I see happening next is where are things going to go with either, let's say, a top-up type model like a Starbucks where you have an account-to-account type debit or the same as a funding model with a block or cash app.
10:54
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And then ultimately getting account-to-account, right?
10:57
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Where we've seen around the world, there are other account-to-account solutions or pay-by-bank solutions that are starting to take off.
11:04
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And as we see more and more, the challenge really lies in the customer experience.
11:10
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Because as we, in the payment space, look at this shift into things like real-time payments, there needs to be an explicit credit authorization to just ensure that there isn't fraud.
11:23
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And if there are cases, that there's a simple way to adjudicate who needs to be reimbursed or not.
11:30
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So we're changing user experiences.
11:32
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Things like real-time payment and transfers are coming with requests for pay.
11:36
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
But I also think that embedding these payments into, let's say, permission-based apps is going to continue to evolve.
11:45
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Last but not least, you mentioned Agentic earlier.
11:48
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I really think that there's going to be a step change of innovation around the frameworks required by networks, whether they be Visa MasterCard or other alternate networks, to ensure that a client is explicitly loading their card into a bot.
12:07
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Let's not, let's just call it single-purpose, let's say I want to buy a pair of Air Jordans, a size 9.5 that are black at the best price.
12:16
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
But then, you know, there's also the possibility that you may have to authorize the purchase also.
12:22
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So in carded payments, there's always been authentication and authorization.
12:26
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So it'll be interesting to see how seamless can that be for bots.
12:30
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
You know, it's interesting because the way the consumer is growing their expectations, the way they're using things.
12:40
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
You talked about double authorization, double authentication, and our use of face and biometrics and all these other tools.
12:48
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
The consumers really come up to speed very quickly because of different organizations, different industries using them differently.
12:56
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
We're becoming more and more accustomed to this happening.
13:00
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
You know, the one thing they're very accustomed to is instant everything.
13:04
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
You know, you can't get it any faster.
13:07
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I don't want it to be any less seamless than it is today.
13:11
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I don't want to take a card.
13:12
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I don't want to take cash.
13:13
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I want to just take my phone wherever I go and pay instantly.
13:16
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
In fact, I'll select who I work with based on who makes it the easiest, which I think more and more consumers are doing.
13:24
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Certainly, if a 70-year-old can do it this way, everybody's doing it this way.
13:30
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
How is this changing?
13:32
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
How's the demand for instant everything?
13:36
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Changing customer expectations on the payment side, but even more importantly, bank operations behind the scenes?
13:43
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Because there's a lot of pressure.
13:45
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Yeah.
13:46
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Yeah.
13:46
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I think there are kind of three things that frame out the client expectations that we're observing today.
13:52
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I think the first is it must be convenient, thing one, right?
13:58
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I think number two, it has to be secure.
14:00
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Secure both at the time of transaction and then number three, if the transaction goes wrong, if they don't get the right shipment, if it doesn't get there on time,
14:09
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
we always encourage people to talk to that merchant first, but they need to know that the bank will aid them in how they help themselves.
14:19
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And I don't think that the speed of the transaction and the expectation changes for what role your bank or your card company needs to play for you.
14:31
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
But, you know, I would say that the other side of the coin is that there, you know, there's a decent number of bad actors who are trying to also speed fraud, right?
14:42
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And moving money where it's getting a little harder to catch them.
14:47
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And by the way, most of them are the client of a bank.
14:51
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And trying to figure out who those bad actors are and get them out of the system is almost an equal priority to the security and convenience of our clients.
15:00
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
who are purchasing things.
15:02
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
You know, it's interesting.
15:03
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
We talked about it before the podcast started
15:05
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that at the foundation of everything,
15:08
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and it's something we often take for granted,
15:10
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
but it can't take for granted is that it's trust.
15:14
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
You know, why do we pay Amazon annually
15:19
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
for the right to buy things with them?
15:22
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
You know, what makes it so that that value transfer is valid?
15:26
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Well, a lot of it has to do with trust.
15:28
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
We trust Amazon not to misuse our data,
15:32
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
not to give us false interpretations of what we buy
15:35
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and what we want to buy going forward,
15:37
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
how they implement things, how they return things.
15:40
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
But that whole trust function
15:41
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
is much more important in banking.
15:43
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
You know, if we break that bond of trust,
15:46
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
be it institutionally or in a complete, you know, industry,
15:52
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
we really are put behind the eight ball
15:54
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
as far as being able to serve the customer going forward
15:56
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
because so much is automated.
15:58
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
We're so much believing in the industry to take care of us.
16:02
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And, you know, we talk about the instant everything,
16:05
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
but that's not so easy to do behind the scenes
16:07
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
when you're talking about risk
16:08
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that runs just as quickly as instant,
16:10
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
which is crazy right now.
16:12
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So, you know, Bank of America has been at the forefront
16:15
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
of AI-powered solutions, been that way for years,
16:18
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
many more of them being customer-facing now
16:21
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
rather than just behind the scenes
16:23
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and more along the efficiency side.
16:26
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
What role is generative AI playing in payments innovation
16:30
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
in the industry, maybe Bank of America, but overall?
16:34
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And where do you see the most significant opportunities
16:37
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and risk when we're talking about AI-powered solutions?
16:42
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Yeah, Jim, the whole push for generative AI in payments
16:48
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
is really, I think, at times more intellectually interesting
16:53
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
to consider than practically.
16:55
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And here's what I mean.
16:57
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Our whole innovation process starts with
17:00
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
what client problem are we solving, right?
17:02
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And I get asked a lot of times,
17:04
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
what's your AI strategy or your cloud strategy?
17:08
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And at the end of the day,
17:09
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
we have a really big discipline
17:12
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
on understanding and validating the problem,
17:15
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
ensuring that as we fit that problem,
17:18
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
or as we fix the problem, it's a fit to purpose,
17:20
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
it's going to work for the client,
17:22
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and then really scale the heck out of it.
17:24
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And to date, I'd say there's a very robust list
17:29
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
of proofs of concept and pilots that we're working on.
17:32
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Within payments, we've seen just a handful of things
17:36
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
work really well.
17:37
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
One example on the treasury side is,
17:40
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
as we onboard clients or we scale with clients
17:43
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
for receivables, if you think about all of the data
17:46
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that needs to come with a payment,
17:48
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
whether it's a wire, whether it's an ACH
17:50
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
or a virtual card, to reconcile,
17:53
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
it really creates complexity for corporates.
17:56
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So we've added intelligence into receivables.
17:59
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I think the second area that we look at
18:03
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
is also more back when you and I were talking
18:06
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
about personal financial management, right?
18:08
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And within the good old days,
18:10
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
with open banking now and access to data,
18:14
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
you know, we're looking to things like
18:16
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
we have life plan, where if you're planning
18:18
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
to save for your first home
18:20
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
or planning to save for students,
18:22
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
if on the corporate side, again,
18:24
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
CashPro has insights and forecasting,
18:27
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
where if you want to test various scenarios
18:30
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
for US dollar rates or different types of flows.
18:34
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So we see a small number of places we're applying it.
18:39
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
My belief is we're going to start to find areas
18:42
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
where instead of asking Erica,
18:45
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
maybe Erica is going to predict why you're calling
18:47
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
or why you're touching base, right?
18:49
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So Erica today in the consumer area has insights.
18:52
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And let's say I have two identical transactions
18:56
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
on my debit card from the same merchant,
18:59
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
same dollar amount, same day.
19:01
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Erica will flag,
19:02
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
hey, this might be an error,
19:05
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that one of these may be erroneous.
19:07
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Maybe you want to dispute it.
19:08
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And if that's the case,
19:09
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I have to go through the process.
19:10
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And again, if I go to the vending machine twice in one day,
19:13
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
it's probably not a big deal.
19:14
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
But I think that there's a future where,
19:16
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
given my patterns, my purchasing,
19:19
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that maybe Erica would say,
19:21
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I'm going to go ahead and submit this claim
19:24
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
unless you tell me not to.
19:26
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And then automate that straight through end to end
19:29
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and only have an agent interaction
19:30
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
if there's some sort of evidence or document required
19:32
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that isn't part of the transaction flow.
19:35
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So that's a very basic solution that I see coming.
19:38
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So Rich, you know,
19:40
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
you've been in the industry for a long time
19:42
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and banking hasn't changed all that much
19:45
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
as far as their stripes.
19:46
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So we're a risk adverse industry by nature
19:50
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and should be.
19:52
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
How well are we doing it managing risk
19:56
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
as opposed to simply avoiding risk
19:58
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
when we look at the innovation platform?
20:00
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
for payments. You know, I look at payments, I go, there's so much innovation going on.
20:06
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
But on the other hand, the financial institution still has so many parameters. Does this make it
20:12
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
difficult to innovate in the banking industry overall? Does it put hurdles in place that maybe
20:20
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
are too high? I use as an example, the ability that I believe that every single customer or at
20:28
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
least 95% of the consumers at any financial institution should have an automatic line
20:34
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
of credit available on their mobile phone that could be anywhere from $50 to $5,000 that is
20:40
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
unsecured, that is almost put in place in a very, is put in place in a very short time after you've
20:46
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
opened the account as a way to cover those expenses that are unexpected, those surprises, but that the
20:52
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
amount continues to grow. But as an industry, we have so many rules and regs internally, not specified
20:59
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
rules and regs that get in the way of offering, you know, open lines of credit. We think about the
21:05
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
worst case scenario that could happen, all these different things. You've been in the industry for
21:10
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
a long time. Is this changing at all? Are financial institutions getting better at managing as opposed
21:17
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
to avoiding risk? Yeah. So I think that on the whole, we're getting better at bringing all of the
21:27
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
legal risk and compliance types of questions to the fore at the concept stage of opportunities now,
21:34
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
instead of waiting and have someone throw up a red flag or a stop sign. So I'll give you an example.
21:40
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I run an innovation routine for a small business and consumer, and we have visited and revisited
21:48
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
buy now, pay later as an offering for our products over the last five years. To us, you know, when we
21:56
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
look at that, we think it could be really great for some of our clients. But when we do the real
22:02
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
analysis, there's actually a very small population of clients who we serve today who choose that,
22:08
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
right? In many cases, they're credit seekers. And oftentimes, they use their debit card to pay
22:13
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
back, you know, and pay in four or pay in five. And we might not be ready to provide that line to
22:21
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that individual. Or maybe we would provide that line, but we wouldn't collateralize it, you know,
22:26
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
with a sweatsuit or a pair of sneakers or, you know, a purse. So we see things differently, I think,
22:33
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
also because we've been through every kind of credit cycle, right? We have seen every kind of user
22:39
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
experience. And in many cases, some of the new companies in the space haven't had to have a balance
22:48
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
sheet that can withstand these types of things. They haven't had to answer to venture capitalists
22:53
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
about cost per acquisition going up and credit losses going up. And that's okay. But to me, we also
23:01
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
candidly really try to partner with these companies, we, we, we are a bank to several big,
23:06
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
big ones. And to the extent we can, we're going to help guide and advise like we would with any other
23:12
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
client. But there's a very small number of places where I think if we got in, if we added the feature
23:18
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
to our platform, that it would, it would materially move the needle on the benefits to our clients.
23:25
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And in some cases, and I know you've mentioned in other podcasts, there's a primary bank that you,
23:32
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that an individual will have where your, your paycheck gets deposited. And then maybe there's
23:36
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
another bank that you use, right? Or you use a cash app or Venmo or Revolut. And you do other things
23:43
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
with those accounts. And we try to really be prioritize choice, right? We, we really advocate for
23:51
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
client choice and our APIs and the ability to move money in and out of our accounts, I think creates a
23:57
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
very level playing field. And, and when it comes right down to it, when we're advocating for, for how we
24:04
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
work with fintechs, we just want, we just want a level playing field. And I do think to a certain extent
24:10
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
as a larger, more, more influential financial business, we should be managed a little differently
24:16
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
than a startup, but the, the distance between the regulations with like a money service provider
24:22
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and a bank are significant. So as, as we start to answer questions about how far is a money service
24:29
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
provider license and how, how far can that get you versus being a depository institution? I think,
24:35
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I think will be interesting in the, in the current legislative climate.
24:40
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So that was a good political answer, by the way, it was very well done. It's as if you've used that
24:46
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
one before. Um, and I, I agree that we're dealing with the exact same consumers. We're dealing with
24:52
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
the exact same product types and regulations should protect both sides of the equation, both the consumer.
25:00
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and the organization in very similar ways.
25:05
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
You know, we can't talk about payments
25:07
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
without talking about the cyber threats
25:09
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and what we deal with every day.
25:11
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And it's getting worse, not getting better.
25:13
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
You know, I know the people around the table
25:16
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
are in charge of those areas
25:17
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
because they look the most stressed.
25:19
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
That's what keeps them up at night.
25:20
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
But how does an organization balance the need
25:24
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
for frictionless payment experiences
25:28
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
along with robust security?
25:30
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
What's that balancing action?
25:32
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
How do you do it from a go forward basis
25:35
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
as you look at new payment opportunities,
25:38
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
new payment products,
25:39
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
new integrations within the customer's
25:42
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
overall portfolio of products?
25:44
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
How do you balance those things?
25:46
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Yeah.
25:46
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Yeah, that could be a podcast in and of itself.
25:49
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
But let me try to give you the short answer here.
25:52
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I think first and foremost,
25:54
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and people don't think about this very often,
25:56
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
but we've invested tremendously in resiliency
25:59
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
because if you think about it,
26:01
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
when you're down,
26:01
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
not only are you letting your client down,
26:03
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
you're probably more vulnerable
26:06
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
to people exploiting weaknesses.
26:10
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So I think resiliency and uptime
26:12
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and things like we've done with Zelle
26:14
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and a lot of our online payment solutions
26:17
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
are really top notch.
26:19
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I think the second thing is that
26:21
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
you have to have a layered security approach.
26:24
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
But at the end of the day,
26:26
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
whether it's perimeter security,
26:28
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
whether it's transactional security,
26:30
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
whether it's new client onboarding,
26:32
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and the combination thereof,
26:36
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
we are investing heavily.
26:38
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And again, at the scale that we operate in,
26:40
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
we are expected to.
26:42
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Like it's not an option not to.
26:44
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So let's take a short break here
26:45
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and recognize the sponsors of this podcast.
26:51
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Welcome back to Banking Transform.
26:52
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Today, I'm joined by Rich Clout,
26:54
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Head of Innovation and Strategy,
26:56
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Global Payment Solutions at Bank of America.
26:59
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
We've been exploring the challenges,
27:01
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
opportunities, and strategies
27:02
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that will help banks and credit unions
27:04
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
make their payment platforms more future ready.
27:07
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So Rich, we're seeing a shift
27:10
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
towards behavioral biometrics
27:11
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and past key authentication.
27:13
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
How do you see the future
27:15
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
of payment authentication evolving?
27:18
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And what will eventually replace
27:21
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
traditional cards and passwords?
27:24
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Yes.
27:25
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So I'm going to have to speculate a little bit
27:27
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
because often, you know,
27:30
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
these things take a little longer
27:31
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
or may not play out.
27:33
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
But I think there are a few simple things
27:35
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
in the way we think about it
27:37
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that are likely to come true.
27:40
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Number one,
27:41
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I think there will be an expiration date
27:43
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
on cards being printed.
27:45
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
The utilization,
27:47
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
most banks, including ours today,
27:49
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
if you need to replace your debit card
27:50
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
or you open a brand new checking account,
27:53
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
we can give you a virtual card immediately.
27:55
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
So I think that the actual issuance of plastic
27:58
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
is probably going to be replaced with software
28:02
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and tokens instead of a traditional card number.
28:07
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I think the second around biometrics
28:09
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
is probably a little more challenging
28:13
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
to determine because there are fewer
28:15
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and fewer opportunities
28:16
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
to collect a biometric.
28:19
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I think that, you know,
28:20
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
the mobile operating systems
28:21
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
have done an amazing job.
28:23
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Obviously, you know,
28:24
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
places like TSA and Clear
28:26
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and others are doing great.
28:27
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
But how a bank can leverage
28:30
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
a separate authentication factor consistently
28:34
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and how we track the nature of that
28:36
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and even both the person and the device
28:38
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
is pretty sophisticated today,
28:40
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
but it would have to take another big leap,
28:42
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I think, to satisfy ourselves.
28:44
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
And last but not least,
28:45
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I do think that the whole path to passwordless,
28:50
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
where it will be pass keys,
28:52
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
it will be chains of trust,
28:55
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
it will happen
28:56
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
because I think,
28:58
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
because with quantum computing
28:59
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and other types of things,
29:00
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
hacking a 16-digit password
29:03
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
with a capital, a number,
29:04
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and, you know,
29:05
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
some sort of other hyphen
29:08
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
or explanation point
29:09
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
isn't going to matter.
29:11
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
But figuring out the right balance
29:14
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
of a great user experience
29:16
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that's convenient and secure
29:18
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
will take a lot of experimentation
29:20
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and time to figure out, I believe.
29:22
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
You know, it's interesting.
29:25
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
It gets time,
29:26
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I think a lot of it gets time
29:27
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
to education as well.
29:29
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
You know, consumers still don't understand
29:32
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
how much more safe
29:35
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
a mobile payment is
29:37
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
versus a card payment
29:38
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
or that plastic versus the phone
29:40
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and how much better
29:42
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
both those are than cash.
29:43
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
I think they understand that now.
29:45
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
But the reality is,
29:46
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
you mentioned just the fact
29:48
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that what happens behind the scenes
29:50
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that consumers have no idea about.
29:52
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
You know, I go to one restaurant
29:54
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that they take my card up front
29:56
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and you have the ability
29:57
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
to pour your own beer
29:59
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and do all...
30:00
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
kinds of things, but you get a wristband. Well, that's great, but you got to go back and cash out
30:05
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
at the end and they don't take Apple Pay. Well, one of the reasons they don't take Apple Pay is
30:09
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
because Apple Pay immediately changes what your card number is in their system and makes it so
30:15
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
it's safer. Well, consumers have to understand why that makes sense, why the continuous revolving
30:22
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
account numbers behind the scenes that they don't see makes sense overall and how much better
30:30
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
a mobile wallet is or a mobile payment is than one using traditional plastic in more ways than
30:37
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
simply that they can be stolen differently. Sure. Hey, Jess, can I jump in there? Because
30:44
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
one old payment nerd to another anecdote on the restaurant experience and then I think something
30:51
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that's coming. Yep. When Apple Pay, Google Pay, Samsung Pay all went live, there was this concern
30:59
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
that merchants wouldn't know how to associate a person for their loyalty. And there was this big
31:04
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
debate that went to EMVCo and others and we said, okay, well, we'll create PAR, which is essentially
31:09
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
a party relationship ID. And almost no merchants have installed it since it's been live. So it's
31:16
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
a mandatory field. Everyone had to do it. The networks and issuers did our side. So there's
31:21
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
always something in the user experience that's going to be a gap. But I feel like technically
31:27
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
there's an alternative. It's just hard to pull it through all the way into some of the sophisticated
31:33
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
like restaurant and beverage types solutions. The second thing I'd say that I think is quite
31:39
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
encouraging is you mentioned, you know, people are still migrating away from cash and checks.
31:43
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Now we see Zelle Send today for Bank of America represents over 1.4 times all of the cash and
31:52
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
check transactions that we have. And think about that. Zelle, you can only do through a bank app
31:58
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
today. So you're authorized, you're authenticating the transfer of the funds and it's immediately
32:04
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
available. I think that those kinds of experiences are going to continue to evolve. Like how else you
32:12
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
could use that kind of experience? And we've seen, you know, double digit, you know, approximately 20%
32:19
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
year on year growth, both at the bank and across the network. And when you think, you know, let's say
32:24
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
seven or eight or 10 years ago, you know, Venmo and PayPal and others that really owned the P2P space.
32:32
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
Right. So, so I think there's going to be, you know, great opportunity. And as long as people trust their
32:36
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
bank and we can evolve the ways you can pay from your bank app, I think we're going to have, we're going
32:43
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
to have an opportunity to not just serve the payment needs, but also the digital engagement and all the
32:47
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
data around those payments.
32:49
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
It's interesting. You bring up a very interesting point that, that I sometimes forget is that in the
32:53
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
payments world, especially in the retail marketplace, you also have to educate the, the people that are on
33:00
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
the retail side. You know, it, it was interesting that before COVID you could find maybe one in seven,
33:08
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
eight, maybe restaurants that would allow you to pay at the table, either through a QR code or just
33:13
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
on a mobile, mobile phone to device that wasn't available. In fact, there's still some that, you
33:20
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
know, I, I, I give my phone to the person and say, yeah, you can take this to the register. I don't
33:24
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
want to go to the register, but that all really, really changed a lot almost immediately with COVID
33:30
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and, and all of a sudden everybody goes, well, this is a whole lot better than what we were doing
33:36
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
before. Well, yeah, it is, but it takes education across the entire ecosystem, which is, which is
33:42
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
different as well. And it, and it's, it's interesting if sometimes we forget about the fact that
33:46
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
in the payment space, there's multiple players besides just the payee and the payer, um, that are
33:53
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
involved in the process overall. So Rich, you've worked across everything from mobile wallets to
34:00
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
blockchain networks, what emerging business model actually, or technology are you most excited about
34:07
S… Speaker 2 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
and which ones do you think sometimes are overhyped? Well, I would, I would say I'm very excited
34:14
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
about where agentic AI will go as the next phase. And whether it's like, I have a pretty decent
34:23
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
size transformation portfolio we're delivering on. And if I could just use agentic AI to map my
34:28
S… Speaker 1 (BT_RichClow_Rerelease_2026-03-30_Mix1_MR2650)
business requirements to test cases, very simple things, or what if I could automate all the rules

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