13 Apr, mmm

Apr 14, 2026 05:27 · 59:54 · English · Whisper Turbo · 1 speakers
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0:03
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
This webinar is being transcribed and summarized.
0:33
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
At the heart of this country lies a war that is a very complicated mix of geopolitics alliances, the manifestations of which are what we see in the military domain, which is an asymmetric warfare with a complex mix of fused threats, drones, wills, etc.
0:57
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
As research scholars at IDSA, it is essential that when we look at this work, we try to understand the military aspects of it and see how it just causes and fits the whole picture as to the outcomes that are affected right now.
1:15
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I would now request the speaker to change the flow. We have three online participants. I request them to put their comments online. He will speak for about 30 minutes. Sir, will you need some more time?
1:31
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Maybe.
1:35
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, I will take this opportunity to just fall back to my experiences in the world of drones. The topic, ladies and gentlemen, for today is drones. In the US, Israel, Iran, what lessons for India? So, Narimsa, please take a stop.
2:05
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Okay, I had many videos and all those videos I am not able to connect. I spent last night trying to make presentation friendly, user friendly in a lot of those lines now. I may not be able to show you but I will still try to highlight some of the key aspects of this sport.
2:36
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Today, I am feeling like an academician and not like a military man who is speaking without slides. Though I am prepared like a military man but my biggest challenge is always how to communicate with the people who don't understand war and I have to tell them what is war and what is wrong.
2:56
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, I will try my best to communicate which I am not good at. So, you can really after that.
3:07
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Okay, what has been the trajectory of the US is arriving on war? US operations, Fretricide and UTM. Fretricide means kill your own people or your own aircraft, your own, you know, weapon systems.
3:28
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
UTM is unmanned traffic management. Why unmanned traffic management has had a profound impact or rather some impact on operations.
3:39
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Vulnerability of soft targets. Effective air power against the hard targets. How effective are the drones? How soft targets have come to be a new challenge for the countries which are trying to become progressive
3:58
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
and trying to build a robust military base and now they are becoming vulnerable to soft targets. You know, their soft targets are becoming targets of their adversaries.
4:12
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Gaps in USAID, air defense, USAID, and it is not the USAID defense, it is also the partnership US system has established with its partner country with the Gulf.
4:23
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, what it means is that the US has created its own capability. They have not shared the same expertise for Baghdad. They have not prepared the kind of war they faced against Iran.
4:39
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Sexuality States is also the same competition. They have not driven by the protection of the Karim.
4:41
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, we have to ask about we had a stealth license. We had some stealth license which as they have seen.
4:44
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
That is perfectly fine. We are talking about shooting down a UE-15 and between Scions.
4:49
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Then, you know, we were riding when they started operating, the vulnerabilities of thurko-prout drone.
5:00
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And remember everything can be related to India, see what is happening in this war, we have to see what we can carry on our vessels and can we recalibrate our preparedness so that tomorrow we are not caught unprepared.
5:16
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Iranian military operations were unique, US losses indicate that Iranians could have an upper hand in some domain despite US and Israel having a complete air superiority over their airspace.
5:34
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So remember a few losses which happened in air do not mean that US didn't have air superiority. Air supremacy, so we in air force use big words so that you don't understand.
5:47
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Air supremacy means nobody will fly and I don't have any friends. Air superiority means I will carry out my operation, I will succeed in my operation if there are few losses I'll accept.
5:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So they had a complete air superiority, they carried out all the operations they wanted to do it except one which probably is supposed to be not in the public domain.
6:14
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Israel simultaneously is in Lebanon. Why they were negotiating things, why Israel goes to Lebanon and why Iran would withstand such a consulate is the single question which we should be talking about.
6:29
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So this everything is nuances of memory more question but why Iran being pitted against the most powerful nations on this planet was able to withstand and what are the lessons of it. I think this is what we have to derivate on.
6:47
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So Op Epic Furyk was launched on 28 February by the US at 1.15 PM.
6:58
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Israel launched Operation Roaring Lion and Iran in return launched Op True Promise. Very nice name.
7:09
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
There was a complete asymmetry. There was a complete asymmetry of a fair path. If I had to compare Iran versus Israel and the US there was a complete asymmetry of a fair path.
7:18
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Their nanny was destroyed when you know America felt threatened and they needed to like most of their ships but their submarines were there.
7:27
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
They were far and few but good enough. And of course they had a gulf of moons which held hostages to the entire world. So it's a very interesting war.
7:41
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
His rise on the day 2 claimed air superiority over Tehran. First march his riding M.O.D. went on letter to say we have a complete air superiority over Iran.
7:53
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And then they neutralized in due course Iranian navy and air force were neutralized. But drones and missiles kept harassing the Americans and the allies and of course Israel.
8:12
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
His rise is a little different which I will cover with right with Iran. Iran expanded the area into civil domains. Now that was a new game played by Iran in this.
8:25
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
U.S. U.S. operations near Tishapar which probably they don't accept it. They are claiming they went to rescue the pirates. But Iranians say that they were trying to do some special operations near their nuclear fuel storage site.
8:46
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So in fact Iran put up an AI generated video to demonstrate how U.S. had lost some helicopters which were supposed to be carrying a lot of troops and with great difficulty they were able to extract them.
9:10
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So as for U.S. U.S. U.S. doD they have conducted 13,000 strikes and thousands of other combat operations between 28th February and 8th April.
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
According to U.S. they caused a generational military defeat. How is it? I give it to you. That included missile factories, drone factories, military depots, and everything that Iran was used against Iran and the infantry.
9:42
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
The areas were divided between Iran and Israel, Israel took on second area, while the US took on the fourth area.
9:57
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
F-15, three F-15.
10:00
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
teams were shot down by F-18 and the Air Force.
10:05
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Now, imagine the US having the most advanced air defense and technologies which are required
10:13
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
for collaborative operations, whereas USA has a very long history of operating unmanned
10:18
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
systems across the continent and in the world and still they lost F-15 and remember we had
10:24
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
lost an E-18 our initial operation, remember this is what is the challenge, protecting
10:32
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
your own forces while you are trying to strike adversaries, it came out to be a vulnerability
10:39
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
of the superpower of this planet.
10:44
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
What is needed is that the scale of operations of US was much more higher than what we were
10:53
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
under here and we had one and they had three to indicate the kind of technologies which
11:00
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
are needed, probably USA had it whether it had shared with its partner remains a question
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
because when you share that entire AD and AD network with your partner then some of the
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
information you need to share.
11:18
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Secondly, whether US was really prepared for the kind of war which they had now because
11:23
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
they always had air superiority which protected them against the kind of attack which Israel
11:29
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
faces and remember the losses on Israel were lesser than keep coming.
11:34
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So what is this unmanned traffic system?
11:38
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Why is this wrecking side becoming a challenge?
11:42
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Unless we understand that now the interplay on India as I cover, you will realize that preparation
11:49
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
for future war will be different and if US can do the mistake, imagine what will happen
11:54
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
for us.
11:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
US had deployed one of the best air defensor sets in the planet but they were unprotected.
12:07
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
The radar were destroyed.
12:10
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
They didn't have the hardened shelters which Israel possesses.
12:13
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
They didn't do the kind of redo the movements because they were the priestess.
12:19
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
They were preparing for a peace time war and that proved to be a death man for a lot of technology,
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
a lot of systems which became an easy target for Israel.
12:32
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And also the soft targets that drones could take on.
12:37
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Drones, the kind of havoc system they have caused, the damage they have caused to Israel,
12:43
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
sorry USA, similar havoc was not seen in Israel because Israel used to have those kind of attacks
12:51
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
and they disperse their assets, of course there will be losses but not as much as what was
12:57
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
lost by Iran, sorry USA.
13:02
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
In fact, the drones launched by Israel and its supported organization, Azbulna and others,
13:11
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
they were able to go close to the US target, they were able to climb and even cause minor damage.
13:18
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Beyond targeting the names, you know, main data and such.
13:21
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
In this war we saw F-35 name shot and the very soon, the very next moment we heard that stealth is gone,
13:34
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
the new era, new solution there from, we don't need stealth.
13:38
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
But remember, the stealth aircraft was detected because of an infrared sensor.
13:51
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And infrared is one of the many sensors, it has certain limitations, it has certain strength.
13:55
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
The multiple sensors give you ability to detect them at a larger distance, and that is where your air operations become dangerous.
14:05
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Remember, they were able to shoot down Pakistan's 300 km deep inside.
14:09
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
This was not the case in the case of Israel.
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And the US F-35 flew, got damaged, first of all, if the missile is locked down, it should have destroyed it.
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
They of course lost one activity.
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
In the operations of so many, 30,000 sorties by USA and 1,000 sorties by Israel.
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
It's not really as serious threat to air operations, but it is a threat.
14:37
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
It gives a proof of thought for the developers.
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Look at what kind of sensors we need to develop to neutralize if we have a strength of operating in our area.
14:47
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And I am sure we all will be taking lessons and asking people to be prepared for such threats.
14:54
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Not shooting down on safety, provided...
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
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15:01
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I think USA kind of excuse to undertake special operations, I think a sign of special operations shrouded in another incident provided them the deniability which of course would have come out later but they tried to do it, they tried to land C-130 on unprepared surfaces which are there and Iranians were prepared, it means they were anticipating US operations
15:30
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
and they were able to neutralize two of their C-130s, four of their two UH-16 and four more IKSR, now that's like helicopters, US had to leave in their C-130s where they brought commanders and vehicles, destroy them and recover the manned people in the helicopters which were overloaded and somehow they were able to manage
15:57
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So I think the kind of operations I think there was a brilliant part in terms of kind of operational planning but there was a lack of intelligence on the world side of the UN, it also indicated that US did not have as much intelligence as the Israeli, probably it also indicates that US and Iran were not sharing the intelligence the way they should have it here,
16:23
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So possibly Israel, now if you look at Israel, now if you look at Israel's operations, they had had the cameras, they had many many electronic systems of Iranians and this is not the first time they had done it, if you go back into the industry, Israel had destroyed the Hamas leadership by supplying teenagers which were lying with them for years,
16:53
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
activated on the same day, in fact that makes me worried that kind of weapon, what are the critical components we buy from our industry, to that deep having vulnerabilities, in fact every time I go to the camera with my face I am worried, because some component through Malaysia or Europe come, we will say we got it from safe sources, is a worry which keeps bugging me, but I think as a military man, I need to be apprehensive
17:24
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
and we need to be apprehensive and we need to find technical means to overcome those limitations, and you as scholars, don't take hospital, you know business you are done abroad, see it from the critical eye, because you are the people who will be carrying forward this research, on to study these effects, this rhyme work, better prepared than you are, I think they use a cluster meditation to cause damage to the people, rest others were not as effective as the US,
17:55
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
so the Raja's preparedness for the people, so the Raja's preparedness for war, their dispersion of assets, their people awareness to the threats, you know, many Iranians say that Iranian people are perpetually prepared for war, I think that is what is giving them survivability against many, many attacks, oh sorry, these Raja's,
18:21
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So I think that part we need to remember. And that was the reason that law 62's life was lesser than the incident.
18:32
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
As per Israel, they had conducted 1,000 sorties on Iran, 10,000 strikes were conducted.
18:38
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So this is why one gate card to carry multiple strikes, so it means they had the highest superiority.
18:47
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Where they said they destroyed over 6,700 components, probably lesser important, and 4,000 critical targets.
18:57
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
18,500 munitions were drawn, but their male UABs, and remember when I'm talking about male, medium-altitude long endurance drones.
19:08
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
It's like MQ-9 kind of drones, it's like Hermes 450, 900 kind of drones, it's like heroin kind of drones.
19:16
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Remember, Iran was hacked, you know, there were reports that had been hacked, and those kind of things with permanent diesel.
19:29
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I have a video, but now I can't tell you.
19:34
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Several MQ-9, so all these aircraft were shot down, these were relatively slow.
19:39
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
They were shot down, they were shot down, they were shot down, they were shot down, they were shot down, they were shot down, they were shot down.
19:48
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And not only that, we have our development program as Tapas, Archer-NG.
19:57
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Now we are trying to develop MQ-9.
20:00
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
equivalent as a hit. That is a proposal where the Navy leaves. So which I have been saying
20:06
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
the stealth is the way forward for India because India's scenario is not the same as where
20:13
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Americans operate. So every acquisition, every development program has to have these realities
20:20
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
where the kind of threats we face against from China and Pakistan and their partners
20:27
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
the kind of support they provide. So that has been kept in mind. Iranian military, I think
20:35
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
they were the three critical components of Iranian strike capability. One was
20:43
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
4th type of Navy. Mines can be the 4th, but you know, mines are a moonwalk area. But missiles, drone
20:53
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
and cruise missiles. Cruise is missiles for the limited number, very limited number. If you
20:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
calculate total, they will come down to below 100 or 150 missiles and launch all states. Very few.
21:06
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
If you calculate the kind of drones, they were the highest that goes down to about 5,000 which I had
21:13
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
so that could be much more in numbers. Then come the missiles, Palestinians, which will come down to about
21:23
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
one-third of the drones. So predominant strength of Iran was drones. Hypersonic missiles will be
21:33
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
very few, but very few. So which can be found in the military. Iran expanded the military order. First they
21:40
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
struck the community of the bases of U.S. Then they struck refinery, air forwards, critical infrastructure.
21:48
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Israel's nuclear information also they tried, more importantly, data centers. Remember India is now
21:54
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
setting up data centers in India. We are collaborating. And these data centers were also set up by these
22:00
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
countries in collaboration with global partners. They were lying open and they were being neutralized.
22:05
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So we need to think what we need to do in data centers, which is so-called a civilian facility.
22:11
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
These alienation plans and the simulation. Of course, the threat of blocking the Gulf of our moons in
22:19
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
the kind of drones Israel, Iran started using. Now this was a very different approach.
22:29
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
The drones, their drones became really a template for others to follow child travel data.
22:37
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Just to give you the figures, UAE had intercepted 2256 drones, 537 missiles,
22:47
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
26 cruise missiles, total of about 2819. Saudi Arabia had 870 drones, 59 galactic missiles,
22:57
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
and 6 cruise missiles. With 845 drones, 354 darshi missiles, 15 cruise missiles. Bahrain, 515 drones, 194 drones, 194 darshi missiles.
23:15
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And Oman, after four or five attacks, they withdrew because Oman was acting as a mediator between
23:22
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
deaths. So which is Oman's national website claims that we had done. We were able to maintain
23:31
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
the impartial approach and we were not inducted. So US losses, 4F-15, some say 1 or 2A-10,
23:44
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
which are basically air-to-ground attack fighters. Probably these kinds of fighters will not survive
23:51
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in Indian scenario. They can survive where their defense is dead. UN-60 helicopters and C-130
23:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
C-130 commando, which we have C-130J, 4MH-6 little birds, 1F-35 damaged, 2A-VACs were shot or damaged
24:12
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
on the ground. A-VACs is a strategy was said and their vulnerability is a proof of authority.
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How do we protect such a high value was said, C-130.
24:25
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
In India, 7 or 8 KC-135, 1CH-47, which is a medium-diff helicopter. We also have, which is called
24:34
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Chinook in India. MQ-9. MQ-9, the claims are varying between 12, 17, 24 and plus. Now, that kind of
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
vulnerability the US can afford it. As regards to Israel is concerned, Israel had also lost about
24:53
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
hundreds and around about 12, but there are news that Israel has been driven them from operation.
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I think that part has a lesson and of course there was data arts and other critical issues.
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
When ceasefire was established, so for two weeks,
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
2067 people died in Iran, 26 in Israel, 13 in USA, 28 in Dulce,
25:24
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
so I think this is the Turkish Al Jazeera figures.
25:29
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Israel said it is observing ceasefire when it launched an operation in Lebanon
25:34
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
and simultaneously I think it has developed some capability
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that it stuck all their command centres in one go for 100 to 130,
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which probably Israel continues to pay attention to it.
25:50
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And remember if you see the kind of operations undertaken by USA versus Iran
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
compared to Israel, USA has flown 30,000 sorties, Iran has done only 1,000.
26:05
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So Iran had its priorities very great, what they wanted.
26:12
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Talks have failed, we are all aware because of disagreements.
26:16
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
US is now threatening to block the Hamuz state.
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So now from Iran, now both are partners, both are trying to block.
26:23
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Currently now the Iran which it was earning money, the US is trying to block it.
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Israel recently, this morning we heard that Israel said the ball should be on
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if there is no peace, no continuation or peace stop, or continuation of peace.
26:44
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Now let's understand the efficacy of drones.
26:50
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Is there any single drone which heated heavily dependent, deep penetrations,
26:56
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
didn't carry out any deep penetrations, right?
26:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
No.
26:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
All targets were soft.
27:01
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So drones had done some capabilities, they harassed everyone,
27:06
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
and they damaged everything which was soft enough.
27:11
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Their radars, their air-to-air refuelers, evac, helicopters, drones on ground,
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S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
anything which was soft enough.
27:21
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Now everything can't be put in hard initiatives.
27:26
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Now that is the challenge of today's war.
27:27
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
If we have to prepare for future war, because these assets are also important.
27:33
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Or we need to redesign these assets.
27:36
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Or we need to redesign our strategy.
27:39
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
If we have to fight a long war with China,
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they have very low weight of attack.
27:46
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And still the country which has those facilities,
27:50
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
they are trying to sell it as the best weapon.
27:52
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
But we have to really draw our own lessons and then move forward.
27:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
One more thing which came to my understanding was,
28:03
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
AI is not a replacement for manned air-tocks so far.
28:07
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Unless we understand this part,
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AI is important.
28:11
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
We cannot ignore it.
28:13
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
But let's not exaggerate the data.
28:16
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
There should be a rational, realistic assessment of current capabilities.
28:21
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And remember, always you will have to keep track of disruption,
28:26
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
so that any one disruption can really change the track.
28:29
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
If you understand that, then we are on right track.
28:33
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Now I come to my main question.
28:36
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Why Iran could withstand the onslaught?
28:40
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
How?
28:40
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
First of all,
28:42
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
First of all,
28:42
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Iran had a better appreciation of vulnerability of U.S. and itself.
28:48
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
He had a very great effort to use,
28:55
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
to protect the open or soft target,
28:58
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
his effort to expand to the Gulf countries,
29:01
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
which were looking at prosperity and were fairly dependent on U.S. citizens,
29:04
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
while the U.S. citizens had,
29:06
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
were not prepared for the kind of,
29:08
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
also of these,
29:09
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
you know,
29:10
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
kind of threats with the Iran force.
29:13
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So I think that really,
29:15
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
was really,
29:18
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
demonstrated that Iran's prepared.
29:21
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
One more part I think,
29:22
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
this war saw was,
29:24
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
they had this,
29:26
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I mean,
29:29
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
landing.
29:29
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Now remember,
29:31
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
when you do that,
29:32
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
you get the technology updates,
29:35
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
or the vulnerabilities of your adversities.
29:38
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
This is not the first time.
29:39
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
In 2004,
29:40
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
December 2001,
29:42
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Iran had landed RT-170.
29:47
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So Iran has always been audacious,
29:50
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
in trying to do things,
29:52
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
beyond what was now.
29:54
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Because not only he was trying to reflect,
29:56
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
and it really,
29:58
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
it has clearly stated,
29:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
See you guys in the Caronople.
29:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
It's good to make me lie.
29:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
How are you talking about it?
29:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And that is related to me.
29:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
We're going around and down.
29:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Thank you.
30:00
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
that we will liberate the technologies to exploit the vulnerability.
30:07
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Tech sovereignty was a civil-minded approach of Iran.
30:12
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
They did not go with that notion that we need to go for collaboration.
30:18
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
They did not go for the best technology which was just not available.
30:22
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And that is the approach which probably we didn't have to learn.
30:26
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And remember, there are a lot of narratives in the public.
30:31
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Oh, they had access to the European system.
30:34
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
They might have, but they had their own plan.
30:38
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Unless you understand that, we will always be drawing lessons.
30:41
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Oh, commercial drones are there.
30:43
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And if you see the lessons from previous wars, even war with Ukraine,
30:49
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
again, the same lessons were learnt.
30:52
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
That central land was the only saviour of Ukraine.
30:56
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And their people died using Chinese or commercial drones
30:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
or even Turkish drones were used to back.
31:02
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And then Ukraine was approached by other countries to help them.
31:06
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
The kind of help they were providing, they had offered to the U.S.
31:09
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
after starting lessons from their own war with Russia.
31:13
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
U.S. designed their yukas which are based on China.
31:17
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Russia is drawing, the design, the Iran drone, which was the Shahid's replica.
31:22
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And now Indians are also, many Indians are trying to omit it.
31:26
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So what is it?
31:27
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Did it have a good engine?
31:29
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Did it have a good technology?
31:31
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
It had a good engine.
31:34
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
It had indigenous technology.
31:35
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
It had easy to develop technology.
31:39
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
One existing capabilities provided and smart use.
31:43
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
But it was vulnerable.
31:44
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
There is very high attrition.
31:46
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
But still the cost of air in it was high on the U.S.
31:52
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
His ride was better than bad.
31:54
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And their effectiveness was destroyed as better than bad.
31:58
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So I think last weekly lessons I will weed out.
32:02
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
We need to review our mail and improve our loop for stale technology.
32:07
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Ghatak.
32:08
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Ghatak has been waiting for quite some time.
32:12
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
We tested our, we tested our, you know, it says scale model.
32:22
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Smaller size.
32:23
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So on 1st July in 2022.
32:25
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So 2nd July I was in media.
32:27
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And then initially they applied to the, they flew with the tail.
32:32
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Then they removed the tail also.
32:33
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So they have been developing.
32:35
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
But our development process has been released.
32:38
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Most of our project, Ghatak, Tafas, Shortland, has not been made successful.
32:43
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
The technology ownership we see in Iran is not as much seen in here.
32:47
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Secondly, the kind of urgency seen in Iran.
32:50
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
They went 3 shifts a day to work.
32:52
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
We continue to work on one shift.
32:54
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Whether it's a case of LCA, whether it's a case of AMCA,
32:57
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
whether it's a case of any other project.
33:00
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So unless we understand, seriousness has to be seen on ground.
33:04
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Even Kaveri, when it failed, we achieved something.
33:07
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
We are not called for phase 2 of Kaveri.
33:09
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Okay, nothing about it.
33:12
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Armand tracking management.
33:14
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Everyone Indian entities have the capability to work.
33:18
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
We need Armand tracking management in civil.
33:20
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
We need it in military.
33:21
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
The board showed the vulnerabilities of civil assets.
33:24
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
If you cannot detect a drone in civil,
33:27
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
you cannot help the military to utilize it.
33:29
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So civil-MTM, Armand tracking management system,
33:33
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
with the AD system and the military UTM,
33:35
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
both are the need of the art.
33:37
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Then entities like BSL, ITDP, which are guarding our border.
33:42
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
If we are not part of counter drone and drone immigration,
33:46
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
command and control system,
33:47
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
we will have our vulnerability.
33:50
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So what we need?
33:51
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
We need 8 to 10 km short range in sight.
33:55
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Because below QR SAM, which is 25 km,
33:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
we do not have an effective other than shoulder pump.
34:02
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And 8 to 10 km that I have guided and
34:05
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
aided, you know, good systems.
34:08
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
How do we need that missile?
34:10
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Then we need multi-shooters system.
34:13
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Like I need a missile,
34:15
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I need a German,
34:17
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
and I need an NTF gun,
34:18
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
probably not the movable system,
34:20
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
or as a combination of ground system.
34:22
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Understand what I am trying to say.
34:24
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Because these kind of threats,
34:25
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
if they penetrate, we don't have a system.
34:29
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Tech ownership remains a problem.
34:30
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
If you see how Iran did it,
34:33
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
they had a Ministry of Defence Export Centre minded.
34:36
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And most of the innovation,
34:38
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
which was done by Iranian community,
34:41
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
in collaboration with industry and design agency.
34:45
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I think these are the lessons we need to make it.
34:48
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Thank you, Chair, for paying me for that point.
34:52
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Thank you.
34:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Thank you.
35:00
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I have been on the speaker because we have a holistic perspective, not just liberal arts, holistic perspective of how Iran clearly, which was supposed to be the military leader of here, has managed to hold a very cleverly sustained effort of at least four decades, able to leverage technology and strategy to prevail upon not just one suburb, but two very strong buildings.
35:27
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I may now request the DTGP has informed.
35:31
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
You want counter drone capability?
35:37
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Of India, okay. Thank you sir.
35:42
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Counter drone capability of India, see what is counter drone capability?
35:49
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
We require detection, tracking, neutralization system.
35:55
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Identification and neutralization. Detection comes with your sensors.
36:02
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Detection also comes with when you know your own friendly people.
36:06
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So you are friendly to manage and unmanned data.
36:08
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And anything else you know can be oversized.
36:13
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So detection, the kind of system we have, I think we have improved, but there are significant gaps.
36:21
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
In the civil segment, we have not really, we have started a program called Digital Sky, which was supposed to be single platform for monitoring, real-time tracking of friendly drones by collaborating.
36:35
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Collaborating means they will actually pass their own position.
36:38
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And anything which is not passing its own position, we will consider as, you know, hostile or unfriendly.
36:46
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
But that system has not been operated, which has to be done by the Ministry of Civilization.
36:51
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
The second air defense layer is CAPF. I think there also we have a significant gap.
36:57
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
In terms of military, to give you a very simple example, I said we don't have a 8 to 10 kilometer current sensor from the side.
37:08
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So if we have a swarm threat, we need an integrated air defense system.
37:12
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So what does an integrated air defense system mean?
37:16
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I have five guns. If I really want to use AI with the current capability, I will tell each gun.
37:24
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I will program it in such a manner that it tracks five different targets on its own, which is what AI does.
37:32
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And it has a light capability. It tracks and locks on and then asks the human being to fire or not.
37:39
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So you have a human oversight, but you can take multiple targets.
37:44
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And once the target is destroyed, it has an intelligence enough to move to the next target.
37:49
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Because that is what the swarm threats are posing.
37:51
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And Iran actually saturated the air defense system.
37:55
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So currently, I think we have a lot to do. We are not yet there.
38:01
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
But, you know, like initiatives like Akash 3, IACCR, they give us some capability, but lack of, you know, close-in indigenous counter drone systems.
38:16
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And C2 systems like Little Sky, and their integration with the NEE system, and better transportation systems, we still have a lot.
38:29
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So I find, I had looked at the IDEX programs. They are efforts in isolation. They are not a holistic approach.
38:40
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So I think, I think one of the way to correct this will be if we have a tri-service R&D verticals.
38:49
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Because we have plans. If you look at the plans, we have all the plans.
38:53
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Because somebody has to take the ownership. Because it's a, it's a gap area.
38:58
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Because these are low cost, when I say low cost, DRDO has somehow been told not to get into the small projects of, I think, 2000 crores.
39:08
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
No, unless specifically are there. So they have been given some limitations. And these will come in somewhere in that third order. So it's not their responsibility.
39:17
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Private industry will not work unless they have the assured order. And somebody is able to accept the failure. So they will not do this.
39:25
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So I think this is a critical gap, which we have to really, which can come from a higher organization, meaning R&D.
39:32
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Always, they say, what is that called? Where we have maximum debt. Value of debt. Value of debt.
39:42
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Value of debt. Value of debt military plays. Because when we say why we need military R&D verticals.
39:48
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
They, they are the critical owners of letting the industry pass the value of debt. And that gap exists even today.
39:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
See you in the dark.
40:00
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Design vertical, say everything is available, but they don't take the ownership.
40:04
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Barring few IEDX initiatives, that has to go at a much larger level.
40:10
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So some initiatives are being taken.
40:12
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
If I see IEDX initiatives launched in the last one year, some of the gaps are being done,
40:19
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
but they are not integrating the C2 gap.
40:23
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
That's it. Yes.
40:25
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Sir, for the rest of the questions, we will move from here.
40:30
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I need to say something?
40:33
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Sir, may I request your name and raise his hand first?
40:36
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
No, I had asked first.
40:38
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
May I know his name, sir?
40:40
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I am S.C. Saxena, Robert's International Institute, and a member of this institute.
40:47
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I have begun to think, good Captain Haran, that the days of the aircraft are almost over.
41:02
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
8,000 swarms of drones swarming over the countryside has changed the character and nature of war, particularly air war.
41:15
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, this we have to recognize, and we have to be desperate about it.
41:23
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
The second reason why Israel is more trustworthy and more effective, and equally Iran is, because they are both desperate to survive.
41:37
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
A mercenary approach, which we display all the time, I do not think can be of any way, which we have been displaying for the last several years.
41:51
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
We recognize, we are intelligent, but we are not intelligent enough to recognize that the nature of war has changed.
41:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, my request to you would be, what proper essence you draw from it, and what changes would you suggest in the structure of the armed forces? Thank you.
42:14
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Sir, I think all of my writings in the past, starting with my book in 2019, I have been talking about structure reforms.
42:32
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, I have said about five structure reforms, Indian defense forces, Indian defense apparatus all together, not even forces, apparatus lacks.
42:42
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
To give you one example, your allocation of business rules has got five secretaries, and they are equals in the hierarchy and chain.
42:54
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And the gaps, let's say there are projects delayed in terms of AMCA, LCM Arc 2.
43:00
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Remember LCM Arc 1A and the user in defense are in the same ministry, and we are not able to resolve the problem.
43:08
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And project can be delayed. It is because the ownership of technology remains an ambiguous door.
43:17
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
You have a direct, you know, you have a secretary R&D, you have a GPSU in charge, secretary DDP, you have a user in the same ministry, and we don't have a solution to this.
43:30
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, I think if we are to look at the structure reforms, I think allocation of business rules has to change, where ownership of technology is clearly defined, and I think we need a higher body.
43:43
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
It's like four brothers, like, oh no, not able to resolve their conflict.
43:48
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, if those four brothers are not resolved, what happens in the family? We have a parent.
43:52
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And this is what is happening in space, civil space domain, not in the military domain, where the space commission acts as a team.
44:01
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Because the decision making is faster, whether to, I'll give you an example, last year we did a, here, ground table in this space, on Meher Baba 3 competition.
44:11
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And till today, that project has not been approved, because it is going up and down.
44:16
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
But then we have a department of military affairs.
44:20
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, well, that's, that's where they are the brothers.
44:23
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Secretary, the DMA is, is a parallel brother to Secretary DOT, is another parallel brother to Secretary DDP, and there is another parallel chairman towards the Secretary R&D.
44:36
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, whenever there are uncomfortable questions, they are managed, problems are not solved.
44:42
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, unless we understand the advances, so allocation of business rules have to be done, honestly, by the, I'll say, give you a very simple example.
44:52
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Secondly, DDP's allocation of business rules says, he's in charge of all DPS rules.
44:57
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
He doesn't say that he's to ensure...
45:00
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
it becomes a self-reliance, it is a road map, that's not the allocation of business.
45:05
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Secondly, there is no body which says if LCA has got delayed or Kaviri has not succeeded,
45:13
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
we will give 6 years to the private sector to make it successful.
45:16
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Again, defense commission becomes an important problem.
45:20
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
In the defense also we have an issue, the US has got an air force research laboratory,
45:25
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
TNA has a research laboratory, air force, army, navy, US has the office of naval research,
45:31
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
army innovation department, we have a design vertical, we have a design directory,
45:36
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
which is a facilitator but not a partner.
45:40
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, while these structural reforms I have been talking and there are solutions,
45:45
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I think it requires a higher level intervention.
45:50
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Thanks.
45:51
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So we take 3 questions and then we copy names.
45:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I agree my reference has been in this war and I think there is a way forward for
46:05
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
nuclear weapons and as India has been developing it, that's similar.
46:10
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I have 2 questions.
46:23
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
One is, it makes us happy with most advanced in the office.
46:27
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
What do you think, how it has been able to maintain its weapon compatibility with Israel
46:32
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
by fighting this war?
46:35
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Considering the case of shutdown, it has been a 35th year in this war, it is hard to say
46:40
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
that it has been hard and changes cannot be built over a 15th year, but as a lesson from
46:45
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
this war, what kind of protection do you recommend that can be developed for the protection of
46:51
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
state governments?
47:03
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I mean, we have to understand when all our VA VPs come up and as the country progresses,
47:08
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
the numbers would increase and it would become extremely difficult for any armed forces,
47:13
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
even the kind of, the size that we have to protect all VA units.
47:19
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, there is a thought that's being discussed which says, to allow some of these private
47:27
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
entities like airports, big industries like Jamnagar, refineries to have their own anti-drone
47:34
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
measures, but it comes with its own challenges because how much freedom do you allow?
47:41
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
How does it integrate with the military air defense?
47:45
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
What are the kind of resources that can be sub-allocated to private entities to use during
47:52
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
times of war and how will they use it?
47:54
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, that's the food for thought and plus the question, I mean, we may like to answer that.
47:59
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And to answer your question, sir, Mr. Saxena and Vinesh, I have a small comment to make
48:08
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
that UAVs have their own vulnerabilities and in this war, if we try and understand why Israel,
48:16
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
though it suffered some losses, was better protected than, let's say, rest of the Gulf.
48:23
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
We have to understand the geography and the geometry of this place.
48:26
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
When Iran fires a UAV, a Shahid, it takes 10 hours to fly from Iran to reach Israel.
48:36
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Now, that time is good enough for Israel to locate and fire and destroy.
48:44
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And most of the drones have been destroyed over other countries, largely Jordan.
48:49
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Israel is a very small country.
48:51
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And when it comes to rest of the Gulf, the US did have its own radars in FPS, TPYs and all that,
49:00
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
which incidentally got damaged in the first 10 days of the war.
49:03
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
But they were optimized to locate ballistic missiles.
49:08
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
They were facing upwards.
49:09
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Drones were flying lower height, at the lower height and a slower speed.
49:14
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And therefore, there were gaps in those air defense coverages.
49:19
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And that's how they were able to play.
49:20
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
It's not that the equipment is not there to locate and destroy these drones.
49:29
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
You can do that.
49:30
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
But the coverage was limited.
49:31
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Vast areas.
49:33
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
You can't defend all that.
49:34
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
May I intervene on this point?
49:37
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
30 years ago, when I was Director General Tex Exemption,
49:42
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I had met on request Mr. Mukesh Madhwani.
49:47
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And I asked him straight away, Mr. Rambani, who told you to set up your plant at Jamnagar,
49:56
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
which is only 16 minutes away from Karachi?
50:00
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
He was, he felt threatened because his private secretary came next year to me and as a chief commissioner at Delhi and to say that immediately next day they wrote a letter to the Ministry of Defence to set up a naval battery, an air battery and an army battery to protect them.
50:21
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And the same problem stands today also. Because I told them that you have invested 12,000 crores and now it is more than 35,000 crores. Thank you.
50:32
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Sir, we will take one more question and we have more 10 minutes before social media.
50:45
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I think unless we look at the context of which country we are talking about, we might draw the wrong lessons.
50:53
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Iran's stakes in terms of its vulnerability and the destruction that it has faced are not the same as those of the Gulf states, visibly Israel, visibly the US.
51:04
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
US has the advantage of relative isolation. Israel has the advantage of a very, very own developed air defence system.
51:14
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
As India progresses, our vulnerability actually becomes one of our greatest weaknesses. Can we take the kind of hits that Iran is willing to take?
51:28
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Can we protect our entire entire into such as, as we said? And the answers to these are a question mark. I think the lessons that we need to learn and draw from this have to be seen in our own context.
51:42
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
I frankly doubt that we will be able to take the kind of losses, the kind of hits that have been going on in this war.
51:50
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Which means that if we look at any future conflict, if we look at any future provocation and correspondingly to the kind of weapons and equipment that needs to be deployed, I think it needs to be seen in that context.
52:05
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
What should be our priority in terms of what should be our priority in terms of what are our vulnerabilities.
52:10
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
While we do look at any vulnerabilities and everything associated with that. I think it's also a relative comparison between a state which might have nothing much to lose.
52:20
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Visibly a country which has a lot to lose in terms of the kind of losses we might not ideally want to lose.
52:29
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Thank you sir. I would like to relate your question to the Maid's question. What is the kind of capabilities we need to do and how we should work on it.
52:45
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So I think, I think our ability to take on those, which will be much, rather I say appetite to take on those kind of threats would be very good.
53:01
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So I think what work they often do should not give us a complicity because I was worried when people are having options.
53:11
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
We need to ensure that we stop them at the first layer or rather first out the ring as far as possible and have a whatever alternate option whether, you know, ability to discourage them in whatever manner.
53:31
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So, one of the things which I learnt from the variety is not only they build hard-up channels, they deployed every acceptance they had for counter-tone.
53:43
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And I find there is a lot of reduction. Like in our case, any base, any system which can be modified for counter-tone system.
53:53
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
In my case, I will have an integrated counter-tone system on HTT-34, HTT-40, IJT, LCH, LUH, ALH.
54:04
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Because let's imagine, Army and Air Force, about 600, the Chetra class of drone, LUH class of drone.
54:13
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And in the next decade, if they are capable, they will cause deterioration at the front end.
54:19
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
So I think all systems, we need to become a little more serious rather than start, every time start calculating cost-benefit analysis at the lowest end.
54:29
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Have a larger picture because during war, it will take just four hours to change over to counter-tone, you know, configuration.
54:39
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And while in civil, you keep using it and we have done it.
54:42
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
But for that, in peace time, you have to integrate and build those capabilities, which Iran kept doing.
54:47
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
And the US didn't have to do it because it was not facing that threat.
54:51
S… Speaker 1 (13 Apr, mmm)
Ours is a much more serious threat.

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