TOPP

0:02

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Tell me your name, please.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Well, I'm Eric Topp, T -O -W -P, and I'm

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

born 1914 and living here in Bonn.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Great. And it's Rear Admiral and Eric.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

I'm Rear Admiral.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And Eric is E -R -I -C -H, correct?

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Spelling?

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

That's right. It's Eric.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Your name is Eric.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Eric. Eric.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

E -R -I -C -H.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

That's right. How did you come to be in the U -Boat

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Navy? Well, I was at Decan on board of the German cruiser Karlsruhe.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

after having finished my training at the Navy school and we,

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

the cruiser cars who was participating in a training of submarines, they were

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

shooting torpedoes and we were the target, the cruiser was the target.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

On board of the cruiser was...

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

at that time Captain Dönitz and I met him there and I gave him my room

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

because on board of a cruiser there is a lack of rooms and so I handed over my room to him to stay

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

there and so we came into a conversation and he asked me if I would be

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

interested to join the submarine force.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

I said, of course, I am interested.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

It has always been my wish.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

I want it to be.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

I have read a lot of submarine books from the First World War, from Helsing, Weddingen, and the big names.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

And so I said to him, I should like to join the submarine force.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Half a year later...

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

I got the command of a submarine, and not a command, but I was watch

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

officer on board of 46.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

And, well, we were operating during the war, in the

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

first year of the war in the Atlantic, but then we came to Narvik.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

because Germany intended to invade Norway and so

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

the ten destroyers went up to Narvik to protect the Gebirgsjäger

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

mountaineers there.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

We had to protect the destroyers.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

We were in the estuary of the Narvik Fjord and waiting for the enemy at that time.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

When did you become

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

a captain of a U -boat and what do you see as the captain's job on a U -boat?

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

I became commanding officer of O -57.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

O -57 was a small boat and we were operating

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

round about the Isle of Great Britain and well it was the

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

normal operation.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

After the first trip we came to Lorient in France

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

because at that time already France was occupied by German troops.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

We had to take torpedoes there and a small repair and then we went out again.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

And on the Isle of Ireland I was attacked by

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

a British bomber and I had

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

my boat.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

was suffering a lot by these bombs and one diesel engine.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

was destroyed by this attack.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

So I had to ask my engineer and the watch officer what

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

to do now. We have only half our speed and the other engine can break down too.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

So we decided not to give up but to go into the narrows

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

at Liverpool.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And, well, it was a risk, of course, but we did it, and a

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

convoy came out.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

We were attacking with success, but then the destroyer

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

was following us, and we had to dive, and we got a lot

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

of depth charges.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

at that time at the depth of 50 meters only.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

That is not much for this security of a submarine.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Anyhow, everything, yeah.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Well, at

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

50 meters, when you have...

6:34

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

When the escort has

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

located the submarine, then 50

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

meters is not much.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Not only finding the submarine, but locating

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

it exactly.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

comparatively easy and so the danger of being destroyed is very great and

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

so we I think we we had we were lucky

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

in so far as there we had

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

We were lying in a Mulde, we called that Mulde, and the depth

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

charges were exploding around us, but everything was hit

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

and we had no light, we had nothing.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

All the engines were practically out of action and we were lying there 36

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

hours.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And the oxygen of the air became, we had not much enough to breathe.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And so I put all the people on the iron beds

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

and so that we were able to...

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

breathe and we had special apparatus for breathing and well anyhow

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

after 36 hours I tried to surface again but I

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

was pressing all the air out of the tanks but the boat didn't move.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

So I thought perhaps we had to stay here 50 meters below the surface of

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

the sea and but Finally I said let's let's try to move a little bit the boat and

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I moved it and then it was indeed it was

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

marching again and was coming up to the surface and the destroyer was a thousand

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

meters away and we could, nothing was okay.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Not even the compass and everything was dead.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

So, but we were marching out of the narrows and so we survived.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

your mind during those 36

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

What are you thinking about during those 36 hours?

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Well when I say I never have had fear

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

It might be exaggerating, but it was the fact.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I never have had fear on board of a submarine, even in very dangerous situations.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And of course, that had an effect on my crew.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And they were relying on me.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

You know when I met the wife of one of my men and we were talking together and

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

she said to me, my husband says when it is very dangerous then I go into the

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

pocket of my captain.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

So you see they were relying on me and that is very important.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Because we were 50 men on board, not at that time with the U -57, that was a small board, we were 27

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

on board.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

But nevertheless, it is a crew and everybody

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

is looking at everybody.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

The main object, the main goal is the captain, of course.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

What is he doing?

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

That's my nature.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I can't say why.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I never have had fear.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I always was relying on myself.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

attacking that convoy?

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Did you do it in the daylight, at night time?

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

What was it like to sink a ship with a U -boat?

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

How did it work? Well, we were in the narrow and we had passed two fires

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

on the right side and on the left side.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

We were going into this narrow part of the Irish Sea and it was

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

dark. It was during the night.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And it happened that at that time a convoy was leaving the

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

narrow. And so I was attacking with my torpedoes

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

and three of the torpedoes hit.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

But then of course they followed me.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

When you attack with a torpedo, are you calling the torpedo?

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

What do you actually see, or can you see anything inside a submarine?

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Well, I was on the surface, at surface, and we had the possibility to launch

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

the torpedoes, so there is no problem at

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

night time.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Do you see them hit?

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Do you see the ship sink?

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Do you have any thoughts about that ship?

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

No, no. It was around about 800 to 1 ,000 meters, and it takes some time until

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

the torpedo, from the moment when the torpedo is launched, to hitting the torpedo.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

It takes some time, and during this time we were turning and trying to escape, of

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

course.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

because the destroyer was following us and then came this situation that we had to dive

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

and I think it were more than 100 depth charges we had to suffer from.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

No, I don't understand.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I see the target and I want

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

to sink a ship and I don't think of the people living at that time on the target.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I know that there are perhaps people are...

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

hit and and not hit but are hurt and that they and maybe

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

that

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

One ship is sinking but there are rescue actions and so I

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

never have had much, I never was thinking about what might happen there.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Well, of course, it is different.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Later on, for instance, I have attacked, in the western part

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

of the Atlantic, I have attacked an American ship, the Reuben James.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

and at that time the Americans were not in, had not declared war to Germany.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

It was end of October 1941 and so I

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

was attacking this Ruben James and I saw, I saw when the...

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

the explosion and then I saw they had prepared

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

already the depth charges for attacking submarines, the Ruben James and well of course then

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

when the boat was sinking all the depth charges were blowing up like a volcano and

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Of course, I knew that it would cost 100 lives.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

100 lives would be destroyed.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

And I must really say that was horrible.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

And to me, I never forget that.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

But may I add something here?

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Because we are always attacked in mind, attacked.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

that we don't care for shipwrecked people.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

I did not attack the Niblek.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

She was rescuing these 100, tried to rescue the 150 people of

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

the Reuben James.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

I did not attack because I didn't want to interfere into the rescue action.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Well, you see, there are different situations.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

And in this case, I

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

was thinking of the people who were suffering there.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

What

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

prior to May 43, how successful were U

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

-boats? Were you confident in the U -boat prior to May 43, or was it?

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Well, you know that I left my boat in May 1942.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

So I have no personal experience after that time.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

But if you ask me about the situation, then I must say, of course, there

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

was a big change.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

And what was the change?

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

First, the British...

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I'm going to stop for a second.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Let me ask you a question.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

So, what was the change in 1943?

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Tell me about that.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Well, there have been many things.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

First, I want to say that the Allied had concentrated...

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

their measurements against the submarines in an

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

excellent combination of scientists, experienced operators

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

and navy men in Bletchley Park.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

And so they...

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

They had examined the whole situation and the result

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

was first that they were examining

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

our possibilities to...

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I don't have the word for it.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

They were decoding...

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

They were decoding

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

our messages, and we didn't know that at that time.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

The other thing was they had developed a radar, first a nine centimeter, later on a three centimeter radar.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And at that time, in the middle of 1943...

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

they were covering with their planes, the very long

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

-range planes, and the planes that are coming from the ships.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

they were covering the whole Atlantic.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

When you realize that from one plane they had the possibility to detect

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

surface submarines at 90 miles, then you can find

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

out how many planes you need to cover the whole Atlantic.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

But it was our fortune that there was...

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

There was a misunderstanding, or what shall I call that, between

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

the Allies.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

The Americans, they wanted to put their weight, their effect, the

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

main part of their airplanes in the Pacific and the British wanted

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

to have it in the...

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Atlantic so they were struggling there for one year before they decided

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

what to do and in this one year we had the possibility to attack in the so -called Iceland

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

gap but that was then finished and so

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

There was a great, now, they had a lot of successes and, well,

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

it was a change in so far as there was the Haftaf, the high frequency direction finder, there was a ley light system and,

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

well, so there was many things on the other side to their advantage.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

What did we do against it?

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

That is, of course, the question.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Well, first we had developed the so -called snorkel.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

The snorkel was enabled, did give us the possibility to be submerged

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

during the whole trip, only showing the snorkel, the small part of the snorkel, but

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

that was not easy to detect.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And, well, then we had the so -called homing torpedo.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

inaccuracies in the detection, for instance, were compensated by the homing torpedo who

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

was running directly to the target.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

So we had some things that were an answer to the activity

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

of the Allies.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

But it was not enough, especially the half -duff, the high frequency direction finder.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

You know, our tactic, our operational idea was the

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

so -called wolf pack tactic.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

That means that boats had put into a reconnaissance line waiting for

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

convoys, and when one boat had

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

had contact with the convoy.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Then it was calling all the other boats of the line to attack the convoy.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

But when the boats came in the distance of 25 miles,

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

then they were detected by this high -frequency direction finder.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

and were of course attacked and so the boats didn't come to, they didn't come into an attack position.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

So the whole, the wolf pack tactic was obsolete now.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And you must realize that at that time

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

already...

25:00

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

from three boats only one

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

came back, two were destroyed.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

So the destruction rate was very high already at that time.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Describe Dönitz.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

What kind of a man was he?

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

What was he like as a commander?

25:36

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Well, you know that he already was a commanding...

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

As often as possible, refer to him by the name Dönitz.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Well, Dönitz...

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

was at that time, when I first met him, I told it already, he was captain.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

But when he became responsible for all...

25:59

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

At the beginning of the war, we had 57 submarines.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

And only 20, around about 20, were operational in the Atlantic.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Dönitz was asking for...

26:22

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Dönitz was asking for 300 boats but at that time the philosophy of

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

the Navy was the so -called balanced fleet and we were constructing battleships, cruisers

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

and surface ships.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

and not enough submarines.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

So we always had a lack of submarines.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Only later on, in end of 1941, beginning of 1942, we were producing

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

more submarines.

26:56

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

So, at that time, Dönitz was admiral and he was our leader.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

And I must say, he was a charismatic leader.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

When he was talking to his U -boat people, everybody was

27:17

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

saying, that is our man.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

And he was doing what he was able to do and

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

he was activating scientists and so on and so on to meet

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

their requirements.

27:39

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

But, as I said already, the rate of losses

27:47

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

was multiplying and, well, of

27:56

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

course it is easy to now, after the time, in a historical dimension,

28:05

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

it is to criticize.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

It is certainly very easy.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

But, you know, I was at that time in command of the

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

tactical flotilla and we heard of these accumulation of losses and

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

we had our own idea how to give an answer to that.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Well, of course, but if I may say so in my critique,

28:46

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Dönitz was a hundred percent follower of Hitler.

28:53

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

And what Hitler said, he was giving an answer to that.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

In other questions too, not only in the submarine question.

29:06

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Well, from my personal point of view, I would say he should have reduced the number of submarines

29:15

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

going into the Atlantic and

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

into the other oceans.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

He should have reduced that.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

And what he did was he...

29:37

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

He was creating a new type of submarine, the real submarine, the

29:45

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Type 21 and the Type 23, but that was too late because only one 21

29:53

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

boat had the opportunity to operate against the enemy.

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S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Years of the war, at the end of the war, was Dönitz

30:11

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

sending submarines on hopeless missions?

30:14

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Why did he do that?

30:17

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Well, his answer is that

30:26

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

of course there were many planes that

30:35

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

were covering the Atlantic.

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S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

air many very long range planes and planes of ships

30:47

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

and starting from ships.

30:50

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And he said, we have to keep these flotilla of

30:58

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

airplanes over the Atlantic so that they cannot additionally

31:06

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

attack German towns.

31:10

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And that was his answer to that.

31:12

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

So he said, even if I have to sacrifice submarines, we

31:21

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

have to do that to prevent that all these mahala of planes

31:29

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

is additionally sent to Germany.

31:32

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Do you think it was fair or right to keep sending submarines out?

31:40

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

It is easy after the war to, as I already said, to have critics.

31:45

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And anyhow, it was the way they first went

31:54

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

to multiply the air defense on board of a submarine to

32:02

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

have several anti -air guns there was wrong.

32:07

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Certainly that way was wrong.

32:10

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

The other way to invent a snorkel, that was right.

32:14

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

To have a homing torpedo, that was right.

32:17

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And from my point of view, after these big losses, they

32:26

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

should have reduced the amount of submarines going

32:34

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

into the Atlantic.

32:36

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

and only to have some submarines to keep this mahala of airplanes

32:45

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

there over the Atlantic, but not so many submarines.

32:52

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Reduce the number, I should like to say, but it is always easy to

33:00

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

attack.

33:07

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

those who are responsible.

33:09

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Did the men, at the end of the war, the men who were going out in the submarines know how dangerous it was and

33:17

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

why did they keep going?

33:18

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Certainly they knew that, but nevertheless we

33:27

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

had, even until the end of the war, we had always volunteers who wanted to participate in

33:35

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

this struggle because, you know,

33:40

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

submariners were an elite and they considered themselves to be members of an elite and therefore

33:48

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

many wanted to, even at that time, they wanted to participate.

33:53

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Did they know how dangerous it was?

33:58

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Did they expect the dangers out there?

34:01

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Well, of course.

34:04

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Did the sailors know how dangerous

34:13

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

it was when they were going out at the end of the war?

34:15

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Of course they knew that.

34:16

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

that it was dangerous because you know they received

34:24

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

when they were outside and you know there was a contact between

34:33

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

the center of the submarines and the boats that were operating outside.

34:41

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And of course they couldn't listen when a boat would not answer, wouldn't give an answer.

34:48

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

So in many cases they knew that there was a lot

34:57

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

of losses.

35:00

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

They knew that, but nevertheless they did their duty.

35:05

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Looking back from

35:13

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

all these years, how do you feel about having served on a German U -boat?

35:17

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Are you proud, and why?

35:19

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Well, it was a great experience I have had.

35:25

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

It was a human experience.

35:28

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Leadership on board of a submarine.

35:33

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

comradeship on board of a submarine.

35:35

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

It's unique and I wouldn't like to miss that.

35:42

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And even nowadays we are coming together with the crew of my boat.

35:48

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

We are meeting every year and that is a comradeship for life.

36:05

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Well, my best friend was Endras.

36:08

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

My best friend was Endras.

36:11

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And I was

36:24

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

operating in the Atlantic when I heard that the center of the submarines was asking for Endras.

36:33

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

He didn't answer.

36:34

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

They were asking again.

36:37

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

No answer.

36:39

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Then I knew that...

36:43

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

well, that he was lost.

36:46

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And that was a great loss to me personally, because we have been together in France, in

36:54

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Paris. We had our female friends and we have been living together.

37:01

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And it was a wonderful life when we were in the harbor.

37:06

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And so I felt

37:13

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I felt absolutely alone now.

37:16

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And so I wrote down what I felt at this moment when I knew that

37:24

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

he didn't come back.

37:25

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And that is written in a book now, Silent Hunters.

37:31

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And it mirrors my feelings.

37:37

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

you wrote down? Can you tell me?

37:39

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Well, it is written down, but I cannot say personally in words what I have written down, but

37:47

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

it mirrors my soul at that time.

37:50

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

What sort of feelings do you have about all your fellow submariners who

37:59

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

were lost during the war?

38:01

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I missed the point.

38:04

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

What feelings or thoughts do you have about the many

38:08

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

German U -boaters who were lost or killed during the war, looking back?

38:14

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Well, it was a high percentage of submariners that lost their lives, more

38:23

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

than any other part of the Army or of the Air Force, of

38:32

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

the Navy. We had a high percentage.

38:39

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Well, of course, I have lost many friends because

38:48

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I was chief of the tactical flotilla and many

38:56

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

of those who went at sea were passing my flotilla.

39:02

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

So I knew a lot of them.

39:05

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And then,

39:10

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

knowing that they didn't come back and that was real, it was a disaster.

39:19

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And I felt it.

39:23

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

And

39:31

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

again, this is your feeling.

39:32

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Do you think that many of them were lost on hopeless missions or at the end of the war?

39:37

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Or do you think that what they did had to be done?

39:40

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Well, I think everybody has...

39:45

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

the power in himself to say, I want to survive, I want to have success,

39:53

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

and whatever happens, whatever, and even if the situation is bad and the enemy is

40:01

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

powerful and we have to face very

40:09

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

difficult situations, but...

40:14

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I think there was no lack of will to come to a success.

40:22

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Well,

40:43

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I can only say

40:51

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

that I don't know all the men who got lost.

40:59

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

And I don't think my feelings cannot think

41:07

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

of all those who got lost.

41:11

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

But a few, as for instance Andras or others,

41:19

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I'm missing them now.

41:29

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I always are thinking of them and I don't forget them.

41:33

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

So this comradeship is encompassing

41:42

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

everyone who has been participating in this submarine warfare and

41:50

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

I don't forget it.

42:08

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Why are you still getting together 60 years later with these men?

42:12

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

Yes, because we have spent part

42:21

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

of our life in a very dangerous situation and we had always to balance on

42:29

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

a very thin line between life and death and that has

42:38

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

bound us.

42:39

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

together and you compare it with the materialistic life we

42:47

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

have today, then you see the difference of that life and

42:55

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

of the life today.

42:57

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

It cannot be compared and therefore

43:05

S… Speaker 1 (TOPP)

we will never forget it.

43:15

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Do some room tone and we'll be done.

43:16

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

We just want to record silence to cover up my questions.

43:20

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Can we just be quiet?

43:21

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

Pardon me? We just want to sit quietly for a few seconds.

43:26

S… Speaker 2 (TOPP)

We're going to record silence.

43:29

S… Speaker 3 (TOPP)

Okay, and I'm running for room time.

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