Nicole

0:06

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

So we wanted to just chat to you today about some observations and just give you, kind of find out where you're at. Yeah, I don't know about you. Guys, I think there's a few concerns that we do have just around the leadership at the school and around how it's going.

0:35

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

I'm going to work backwards and start with the most recent one and then move back. So you have, currently at the school, I know that you have some staffing issues, you have some cover issues, yet you've approved leave, four weeks of leave, for someone without discussing it with anybody. You didn't get approval from your son. I don't think you've spoken to anybody, mind you, because I'm not aware of it.

1:05

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

There's never been an occasion where leave outside of, and I mean outside of thorough process of policy, has been approved without consultation. Even the time that Mukazemola was here, if a request has been made that's outside of thorough process of policy, she'd always get approval from me. And in this instance, leave has been granted to someone for four weeks.

1:36

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

operations is not aware of it, not understanding, and your staff is not aware of it. It is impacting the school and that call that you've made has put your school at risk. So I'm trying to understand what is the core process behind that if you, because I mean at the end of the day we're all here to serve our scholars, we're here to serve the school, so how did that decision, how was that in the best interest of your scholars?

2:11

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

I'm going to refer back to the email that I sent to Amy and Nicole. What was the email sent? So there was the first email where I sent asking for basic supportive reminders on any operational task.

2:35

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

that need to be done. So after that, I could receive the call from Amy and then there's an email explaining what you're asking. So that's the email I'm saying I want to refer to to sort of. Was that before the person had gone and leave or after? It was after. Okay, so I think the point is that everything that was done in terms of consultation was done after the fact. So even the email, it wasn't sent prior to you approving.

3:03

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

leave for an individual that's sent off to the fact so the deal has already been done so i'm saying i'm referring to it so i can respond to what you are asking yes um so that's that's what i meant

4:23

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

So the reason why I want to refer to it is because I want to just make sure that I am answering, you know, every part that you asked. So the part that you said, it wasn't approved by anyone. And this is me being honest. I've never been in a situation where I had to...

4:47

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

i don't know i don't even know how to explain it that's why i want to just can i just read the email because my mind also it's everywhere um can i read the email

5:04

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

Okay, I'll try and respond. It's just that I think I've expressed this to Nicole.

5:12

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

My chain of thinking and response might not be accurate because also I'm feeling like I was in a way that, you know, this meeting was going to happen, but it's fine. I'll try my best to respond. So I've never been in a situation where I had to approve Ailey for a SOC or for this type of period. And I was under the impression that it follows the same process that I've.

5:33

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

been exposed to before, where a staff member has to go for practicals. I even mentioned on the email that there was an incident where Bramley had a teacher that needed to go for their practical for the same amount of weeks, but they were able to take two weeks. Yeah, two weeks and then another two weeks in a previous, in a different month. And with that one also, there was a...

6:01

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

It was a thing of we needed to check their timetable. We sorted out CAVA internally to say, okay, in those two weeks where you're away, we're going to have a supervisor step into the BLF role. And then in that way, there weren't any internal impact or...

6:24

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

operational, yes, operational challenges. So I went with that same mindset with this one to say, okay, leave can be approved, then we need to just sort out how cover would look like. And prior to Ms. Maluka leaving, I had a meeting with her, which she took me through what she needed to do in that period when she's away. I had a meeting with the leadership team as well on dividing responsibilities operationally.

6:54

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

We arranged certain duties and responsibilities according to that, communicated that with the supervisors because she manages the supervisors. And then my next step was also reaching out to Nicole and Amy. That's why I sent that first email because my chain of thinking was that the same process would apply. So first three, with BLS.

7:24

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

We understand that they need to, because it's part of them, that's why we had the analysis to meet before, right? They need to do the practicals, they're still studying, they need to do that, and so we can make accommodations for that. That's very different to someone who's in a leadership position, or in a position that actually oversees and manages others.

7:43

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

Which in this case, she's responsible for the supervisors, she's responsible for operations, right? So there's arrivals, there's dismissals, and we've had incidents. So how are you managing? So who's managing the supervisors at the moment? It's amongst the APs and myself. So already, is your AP stretched as they are in the current form?

8:10

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

Or do they have capacity to take the farm? I think we do have capacity and I'm saying it based on a case where we were not fully, what's the word?

8:24

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

We didn't have full APs. We didn't have three APs. There was two, and we were able to manage. It was stretched, but we were able to manage. So my thinking was, okay, these three of us, we can divide certain roles amongst the four of us. So I wouldn't say we are overly stretched. That's hence why the decision, because it was a decision when we sat down and discussed it together. It wasn't a decision that I made by myself.

8:50

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

When you didn't know what to do, you didn't think to ask. Didn't know what to do in total. When you said you weren't sure how to manage this leave, and then you just went back to doing what you did at Bramley, you didn't at that point think to get clarity and ask your son to say, hey, I've got this issue. This person is wanting to apply for leave.

9:15

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

And it is four weeks. It's in the middle of semester. What is the process that you need to follow? Honestly, I think also the way that I handle it, it does speak to I didn't think of taking that route because I thought we were going to be able to manage because everything has been set in place operationally. So what are the kind of risks that you have exposed the school to?

9:49

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

by making a decision like that in the absence of anyone in operations or your son being mobile? I don't really understand the question.

10:00

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

So in your plan, with your approval, you don't think that you've exposed the business to any risk? I don't know how to answer the question, except if you're being specific, like if you're saying maybe arrivals, lunch and breaks. I'm asking you to think about the risks. Because I'm thinking of the portfolio of things that she would be overseeing, right? So when it comes to arrivals and business, we do have a schedule and leaders are outside on a daily basis.

10:35

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

Same with arrivals and dismissal. Lunch and breaks, I'm responsible for observing that, but also the leaders when they're doing their walkthroughs, it's a task that they need to oversee. Then with the recessionists, I'm just mentioning a few at the top of my head that I think could be a possible operational risk.

10:58

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

When it comes to incidents, lunch and break incidents, the supervisors can connect with any of the leaders. So I oversee six and seven, and each AP has grades that they oversee. And then classroom-related things, that's also on me. What do you think you're always as a principal? I have no response, but I think...

12:04

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

What you're describing to me in terms of what you're doing, your thought processes, where you are finding the most important or the most value for your time, is what I would expect from an AP, not a principle.

12:30

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

So when you are looking at the risks, you are explaining to me risks from the perspective of AP and explaining to me risks from the perspective of someone who is leading the school. Because when, and I'm not a principal of a school, but from a leader, the risks that I would look at is, you have a consistency issue here right now. If you went and you approved something, I follow a protocol.

12:54

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

to approve four weeks of leave for an individual. If you have two or three other staff members coming to you now, are you going to make that same call? And why wouldn't you? Because wouldn't that have been seen as favouritism? Because you can do it for one, but you don't do it for the other. So it's about looking at the impact of a decision, not on one person, but on the rest of your school.

13:22

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

is about looking broader than the situation that is sitting in front of you. When you are taking away time from an AP, because there's a reason why you have the amount of APs that you have, right? When you are taking away time from an AP to supervise, supervise is a deal with operational things, you are taking them away from instructional time, or from them doing observations with teachers to look at your instruction and curriculum.

13:50

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

and whether that is being implemented and built off properly.

13:53

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

You are devoting your time to look after break times, etc. That is not meant to be what you need to do, right? Operationally, if something goes wrong, your APs, you have to now go and deal with those issues, opposed to focusing on what you need to focus on. You've had an incident at the school, not too long ago, where you had a scholar that was injured and you didn't have sufficient people to be able to even...

14:21

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

return the call to the parent, yet you have time to split your time between you and the enemies to do other things when you don't have your sock available. So when I'm asking you what you think the role of P is, I'm asking you to really think about what you are answering and how you are responding to me right now. So you wanted to add something to that? I wanted to dive into the risk that it would be.

14:50

S… Speaker 3 (Nicole)

it lays on you as a principle because you are now having to do operational things which takes away the time which we already know has been

15:00

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

short from you doing what you meant to do. Sorry, just to add to that, I have my recruiters telling me that you are not responding to their emails, you have vacancies, they're needing to set up and they are waiting. Yet you have the time to deal with someone else's work.

15:21

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

but you are not attending to what is important and priority for you to manage this school. Making sure that your vacancies are full is important and that's really where your focus appears. Making sure that your staffing and your resourcing is done. You are focusing on things that is not in your, that is not a priority right now.

15:43

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

I don't know, you can continue on that. I think it goes back to what I told you before. I don't think you're prioritising correctly. You're putting your focus in places that it shouldn't be. If you had come to me with Rebecca's leave, I would have denied the leave.

16:06

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

Simply because of the climate of the school right now, where your leadership team is, cover, absenteeism, I would have said no to leave. Because I know the school is under a lot of pressure right now. And you not looking at it from that vantage point is what the issue is. There isn't anybody else to come in and fix those issues.

16:34

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

When you have absenteeism, when you have cover issues, when you have children being injured on the school premises, when you have someone not in place where they're supposed to, that sits on the feet. And I'm not sure if you really fully understand the role of a peer. You cannot be using your time to fall in cover. Yes, you can, right? If it was unplanned.

17:02

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

But you can't go and plan your time to do things that is not a priority. Your focus is going to be on other things. You've exposed the business to risk. This is the second time that I can do that. We're at a position now where we need to decide whether, because you need to follow a process here. There is a very clear process and I can show you others that have followed that process and all you need to do is pick up the phone and answer.

17:40

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

Your previous head of schools would never have made a call of it without discussing it with me. She would not. Your exams would not make the call of their own without discussing it with the head of schools. But as a principal, you thought you can make that call. Not understanding the risk that you're putting your score at. Your score is currently exposed from an operational perspective and an instructional perspective because you have now taken

18:11

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

people who are responsible for instruction at the school for their academic outcomes, and you have now taken their time. When you have coverage issues... Can I please explain that part? Because I feel like, and I hear, I clearly understand, and I clearly understand what you're explaining, and I appreciate the opportunity of this discussion, right? And I think...

18:39

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

For me, I was just trying to explain my thinking process not to say that it was correct. And I think I also mentioned on the email that I'm open for correction because honestly, I thought that I wasn't doing anything.

18:57

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

majorly more wrong because I put things in place to make sure that we don't find ourselves in an operational risk. And when I say I've spoken to the APs to also assist, it's not taking them from their instructional roles. They're still expected to complete the instructional roles. And I think I'm mentioning these few things because arrivals and dismissal, whether Rebecca is here.

19:23

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

Every leader needs to be there because it's our biggest pain point. Lunch and breaks, there's also six systems that are put in place that whether Rebecca is here or not can be functional. And I'm just not necessarily saying what you're saying is incorrect. I just wanted to expand my chain of thinking. And that's why I'm mentioning these things because it's the pain areas that we spoke about as leadership before her leaving.

19:56

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

And when it comes to observing lunch and breakfast, it's not a thing that happens on a daily basis.

20:00

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

basis it happens once a week so and I understand where you're coming from when you're saying overly stretched but I honestly thought that it's a way that we'll be able to carry together as a leadership team because we've been in a case where we didn't have a third AP and we were able to sort of support each other with

20:24

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

coaching those specific teachers that didn't have an AP. I'm just explaining this so that you understand my chain of thinking and based on this conversation I fully understand why it was important and necessary for me to communicate this with Nicole or Amy prior to making that decision.

20:52

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying... I mean, what I'm hearing, I'm just telling you, I'm trying to play it back, that what she does is arrival dismissals, observations at lunchtime, and you guys do that anyway, so even while she was here, you guys were involved in that anyway, so my question to you guys, so what exactly does Rebecca do? So what I'm saying is that there are systems that have been put in place.

21:21

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

for things to be able to function without a leader being... I don't know how to put it in the right words, but I'm not necessarily saying that. I'm just saying that there are systems that operationally Rebecca has put in place so well that it's easy for the leader to sort of oversee and facilitate. So, again, if your systems and things have been put in place, then we should just put those systems in place and we don't hear this up.

21:51

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

everywhere else. I mean, if that's what I'm hearing, but then at the same time, if the assistance and things have been put in place, you wouldn't have accidents when kids are breaking collarbones at a school. And that happened whilst you had somebody here. You wouldn't have a situation where the parent is upset because it's not being responded to correctly or appropriately, and that is while somebody is here. So in her absence...

22:20

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

Isn't that a matter of the system is that it's put in place and a person is not following it? Because I think I've shared that also with you, Nicole. I think what you were going to say is people are not following the system. So how now in Rebecca's absence are they going to follow the system without that person to oversee it? There are a number of things that we've put in place.

22:54

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

prior and after that specific incident and it's a matter of just following through on those because you guys are so stretched you won't be able to follow through not operationally I mean

23:15

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

Normally like I've had that conversation with you, your time, you're struggling with your time. I don't see how you'll be able to manage or facilitate the operational things when you weren't even able to manage just the academic things and parent NPS and parents and complaints and just your general job role. Now you've taken online operations for four weeks. When I've told you I can see you are not coping.

23:47

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

So I think when we're at this point on course, we need to have a call as to how do we want to proceed then forward, right? So we've got basically two options. We can take you into a disciplinary union. This is very negligent. You have not displayed the leadership ability to lead a school through times when you actually made it worse.

24:21

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

The decisions that you've made has put the school at risk. You have put the scholars at risk with the decisions that you've made. And I am certain that in my sight, if you had to go back and think about it, and we had this conversation with you a month ago, you probably would have made that decision. But we cannot be having these conversations with you about everything. And the role of the leader of the school is to lead the school.

24:52

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

not manage it. And that's why I asked you, what is the love of pain? It is not to manage.

25:00

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

The stuff that's happening is to leave the school. If there is another incident that's going to happen at the school, right now, if today there's an incident that's going to happen at the school that was missing, you don't have a sock at the school. The person is ultimately accountable as the team. Because you've made the decisions for any of that to happen. You have put your APs at risk.

25:25

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

You have strategically burdened them with responsibilities that are not theirs to be burdened with. You have put operations at a risk. It is not just about putting someone in, putting someone there. You've got absenteeism, you've got pizza, you've got three supervisors absent on a day. But if people could have stood in there, you cannot have an enemy go and stand in the role of a supervisor when you don't have that. You can't utilise your FMS staff to do that.

25:59

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

You're exposing your school to risk for four weeks. The alternative to taking you into a disciplinary for this. Because it's not just this. You've just come off the backbone of a really serious scholar incident at the school. And you made this call after that. Right? Our intention is not to be punitive, but we have to be corrective in terms of the behavior, which is why that conversation happened with youth.

26:41

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

Now we're sitting at this point and my recommendation is that you go back to a main big position and we put in place a development plan so that you can understand the role of the P before you take it on because there is a bigger role to take on. I think you have value to add to this business. We see a lot of value in what you can do. I just don't think from what I've heard and what I've seen that you're ready for this role yet. It's responsible for us to continue.

27:27

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

knowing that and I'm sorry that this is a hard conversation to have but one thing I think you'll learn with me is that I'm as honest as possible with someone and I try not to sugarcoat things and I try to give it to you as straight as possible because I think that is the kindest thing to do you can ask me anything and I'll give you an honest answer whether it's an honest answer that you don't want to hear but it will be the honest truth I will always give you that of course you may when I started

28:22

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

I think one of the biggest requests that I had, and I think that's why when you asked me the question, what is the role of VP, I have an answer, but I wasn't comfortable to share the answer. So when I started, my biggest thing that I kept on asking for was being onboarded properly and also the roles and responsibilities.

28:53

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

a principal because obviously when I'm coming in here I'm coming in with the mindset of being an EP never being exposed to being a principal and I had assumed that it would be like adequate onboarding, abscading or training once I've gotten on the job and I think that's why when I explained the Rebecca situation

29:28

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

pull-off experience is based on what I've been exposed to previously. And I'm noticing in the chain of communication mistakes that I'm making or decisions that I'm making that there is, I don't even know how to put it, but there is a gap in terms of transitioning mindset behavior-wise from AP to principle.

29:58

S… Speaker 3 (Nicole)

And on my side.

30:00

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

I do feel like it's because I wasn't adequately equipped when I started the job in terms of being onboarded and trained on the road. And I think that's how also I feel like I am feeling the APs because I've been in a position of being an AP and not necessarily training and equipping APs and it's something that also I've asked for.

30:27

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

over and over again when I started, what does support look like when managing APs. And I'm only getting that from Nicole now, which I think would have been very beneficial if I got it from the beginning of the year, not to excuse decisions I haven't paid.

31:03

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

I understand. I understand. I understand the incident that happened after going through the process and explanation. Honestly, do you understand? And even now, I understand. Sorry. I'm a person that's open to learning, being trained, being unskilled. I think there's a lot that we can do until sometimes there are things that we've got from

32:34

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

onboarding, we are working on a really good preview in how we onboard someone. But I think that the judgment calls is not something that even if you're not on onboarding, all the support that you would have learned through that. I mean, responding to emails, prioritizations.

32:58

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

looking at what is important, thinking about your school, looking at the risk, evaluating the risk, those are judgment issues. That's not a wrong process.

33:11

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

Like, you know, understanding the financials. Those are things that we need to really review. How do we get you to understand financially how your school is doing, how your school is operating, how enrolments work, what you can do with your class enrol. And that we are working on how do we own good principles to be able to understand that. But the course has been made in all of this. A really broad judgment. Can I give an example?

33:39

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

with the incident along Cheta Cheta in this corner because I'm able to recall back and take the conversation you're having and I understand better the judgement part and how I handled that incident was

34:07

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

saying rebecca literally mine was checking in with rebecca and saying rebecca run with this because i'm coming from that mindset environment to say okay

34:19

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

dedicate and then you come back and give feedback in this environment you're not coming from. Say as an AP, yours is to run. Then you just come back and give feedback to the principal as to what steps you have taken. So I'm giving that as an example to what I'm saying. To say I'm picking up that I'm making

34:43

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

mistakes or decisions that I shouldn't be making because I'm thinking as an AP, whilst I should be thinking as a principal. It's more just a matter of.

35:00

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

culture and time with a really strong P that will give you that opportunity to get there. But it's not, you don't wake up one day and decide, hey, well, leaving a school is hard because it's not just leaving your APs and leaving a school, it's taking full responsibility for scholarships and you are responsible. That is tough. I don't want to leave a school. I'll never be able to do it. I know I can't.

35:31

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

I won't put myself out there because I will fail on day one. I'll probably lose 10 kids in one day. Or, all these kids will probably go home with me because I wouldn't let them sit in a taxi without a seatbelt. So I know that's not me. Right? But I honestly don't have to say, I know that that's not me. Will I get there one day? Hmm. Maybe not. I don't think so. I don't think I can ever teach.

36:01

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

I don't think I can ever, I can't do that, I know I can't. So I'm not going to put myself in a position where I can't. But there are other things that I know I can do, but I may not be really for it now. But I know with the development plan again that right tools, like you said, sometimes it's not just about sports, it's about tools, it's about developing certain skills. And so how do we do that? And I think it's important that one.

36:28

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

needs to understand. So the first thing is to acknowledge and say, this is where I'm failing, or this is where I have an opportunity to improve, right? What does the opportunity look like? And what are the opportunities? And how can you support my development in that? And that is a very different conversation. We are sitting here in Oko and we're not saying that you are a bad person. We don't want you in Scott. That is not what we're saying.

36:52

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

What we are saying is, we think that there is a lot of potential in you which you don't think you are ready for this long. We don't want to put you in a position where something really goes, I mean something's already gone horribly long, right? At the school. Doesn't matter how you look at it. Ultimately the principal ends up being responsible for whatever goes on in the school. I don't want that kind of responsibility.

37:19

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

But that is the principal's responsibility, which means that you cannot be using your time as a principal to be dealing with small little things because your first thing is making sure that your school has the resource properly. When you're not getting back to your recruiters and they're waiting on you for times, that means that you are not prioritising making sure that there is sufficient coverage you have to remember in your school. So you are exposing the school to respond to that component.

37:59

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

I said it to you as well when you were at Bramley. The three of you stayed at Bramley and I said you stayed there far too long.

38:11

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

You should have gone out into different schools and experienced different leaders in different environments. Because each school is unique in its problems and its issues. You kind of started your growth by staying in that space. And you had one leader after another as well. And I do think it will benefit you by...

38:38

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

going back into an AP role and learning from it would be really strong. And we've had an AP that's applied for a peer role and me. Well, I'm just considering our journey. The one thing that that AP needs to do is get out of the school where they are at the moment because what is important is that they are exposed to more than one root leader.

39:08

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

exposed to more than one environment.

39:11

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

Because with the SPARC system, if you've grown up in the system, you were a teacher, then moved into an A-B position, and now you want to move into a principal position, but you haven't experienced any other SPARC environment, it becomes very difficult when you need to deal with different personalities. Moving into a space where people don't know you, so you haven't built that rapport. The parents don't know you, the scholars don't know you, it's a completely different, and they're always new.

39:39

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

And I think that's what you've stepped in here. You have to, as a new leadership team, it was a new group of parents, new group of scholars, new group of teachers, all of that. And you have to step into a completely new role, where if you were a PEF primary, for instance, we would have probably done better. A whole lot better, because...

40:00

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

You didn't need to learn to get to know the parents. You already had rapport with the staff. So you already knew how the staff interacted and they already knew who you are. We knew exactly how to manage them. The only thing you then needed to deal with was your own recipe. That was the only thing you really needed to learn to do. And that would have been so much easier for you.

40:21

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

Whereas if you had gone into environments where you needed to adapt very quickly, learn how people operate without having the responsibility of the entire school, you would have built an additional skill. And that skill would have been developed more if you had looked around. And so sometimes when we recommend that people look around, they don't normally, they don't usually understand, but it's for their own growth.

40:53

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

It is a part of the growth to move. Not because we are saying, oh, go fix the school, go fix. It's not about that. It's about your growth and your body you can add. And then you take away from wherever you are being exposed to different leaders. You've been exposed to two different sounds. Different approach completely, right? Three.

41:20

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

She's three. Oh goodness, so you had three signs. And they were all very different. There's different things you can take from each one of them. So you're fortunate to be exposed to three different individuals that you can take three different things from. So you don't, you take and then, you know, it's like what I said to my daughter on the 21st. It's not like we're leaving you.

41:48

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

You were exposed to us and all these different adults in your life. And you get to take only what you want. And you get to leave behind. I said, we are not perfect. We are imperfect people. And you, as a child, growing up and now an adult in our house, you get to choose what you want to take from us. What are the lessons that you want to take? And you get to dump whatever nonsense we spoke.

42:17

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

that didn't work for you, that didn't resonate and you need to make your own. So when you have a family one day, you need to make your own family with your own set of rules and you only take with the stuff that served you, that we gave you. But when you thought we were unfair and whatever we did didn't really help you, you dump it and you replace it with something else. And really that is what you need to do as a leader. Take what you can.

42:49

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

Sometimes leaders are bad, sometimes they're great. Even bad leaders have a lesson to teach you. Take what you can and be quite thankful for the bad lessons or the good lessons that they've given you and the rise above all of it. There's quite a number of things that I remember. I think the biggest term that I've heard so many times but

44:17

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

If you were to ask me exactly what it means, I'd be able to explain it by just a limited understanding. The term, you are the ultimate responsible person in the school as a principal. 16.2. I have signed that document, but any questions?

45:03

S… Speaker 2 (Nicole)

I actually don't know. My mind is everywhere. I don't know. It's something that I have to think about. That's fair. It hadn't really crossed my mind. So yeah, it's just time to tell the conversation. I'm going to be honest and say again, that's all you're going to get out of me is absolute straight as it is.

45:51

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

We are in a position right now where we need to make a call together. We don't need to take you into a different parts, right? I want you to think about it. I really want you to sit. Because if you're going to move back into an AP role, it is going to be for Nicole to sit and really work out what is that development plan to get you back to appear and kill you that. I'm not going to allow them to move you down into the role without having a clear plan.

46:22

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

to get you back into this world. But I want you to think it's doom and gloom, that there's no opportunity. There must be a clear path, whether it's going to be in six months or 12 months or whatever. There's got to be a very clear pathway to get you back here with clear outcomes as to this is what you need to achieve, which is fair for you to say.

46:45

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

In order for you to move back here, these were the gaps that we've identified. Here's how we think we can close these gaps. So wherever you go, these are the stretch assignments that you need to have to demonstrate competence in these areas. That's how that is going to look. The alternative to that is we go into a disciplinary and the outcome thereof will not have control. So take the time, think about it.

47:26

S… Speaker 1 (Nicole)

I would ask you not to take too much time though because we can't debate this enough over and I think it's a long weekend.

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