victor jara collective (1)

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

Okay,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

let's try to do it.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

So,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

for Chile

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

and for readers,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

I think it's almost unknown the work of

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

Collective Victor Jara.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

It's a very like a new thing for us.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

So, maybe we can tell us about something

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

about the group and where

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

Did it begin?

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

Why did it begin?

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

What happened later with the group?

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

What was the history of that?

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

The group started in

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

the middle of the 1970s in the context of Cornell

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

University where there was a group

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

of people who were students and teachers and professors at

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

the university who formed a

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

radical reading group.

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

So I don't remember at this point,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

this is now almost 50 years ago,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

all of the texts that we were

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

reading but we read Marx,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

we read various critiques of the

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

imperialist system and among this group were quite

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

a number of people,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

students say at the university who were from South

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

America.

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

The ones I can remember were from Colombia,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

Venezuela and Chile and because

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

we came into contact with these people and they

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

were reading together with us we understood

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

and their reading of the texts from the perspective of the

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

conflicts that were happening in their countries.

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

At the same time,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

I and some of the other people in this group

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

were privileged to participate in a summer

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

film workshop,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

which was for filmmaking,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

and so some of us were just learning about

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

filmmaking,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

And we took that summer,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

which was 1976,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

was the 200th anniversary of the

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

birth,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

the founding of the United States of America.

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

So there were massive celebrations

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

all over the country of spectacle,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

shall we say,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

lots of...

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

parades and big ships floating into harbors and the celebration

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

of whatever so we wanted to look at that in a critical

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

way to say that you know that's just not and that's

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

very common now and in fact it's become a very political thing in our country

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

to be critical of the foundational principles

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

and the founders of the country but it wasn't such a common thing

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

50 years ago so we

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

decided also to,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

because we wanted to do that,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

we also took advantage of using new media tools

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

which meant learning how to use very early video

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

material instead of using film.

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

So we made the project using very

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

awkward and very difficult to use

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

reel -to -reel half -inch videotape.

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

So we put together some small things and showed them.

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

It didn't result in a big project.

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

But at that same time,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

there was a Guyanese professor at

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

Cornell who was looking at the things that were happening in his country

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

at the time and thinking,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you know,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

with this critical...

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

perspective,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

what am I doing here in New York State?

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

I would like to go home at this

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

time and see what I can do with what I've learned and

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

become outside.

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

So because of some of us were

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

able to...

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

Oh, okay, let me go back to the...

4:24

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

Because of the contact with the South Americans,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

we were,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

you know, listening to South American music and learning about the things

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

that had happened.

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

And we,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

when we came together,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

those of us who decided to go to Guyana with Rupert Rivnerine

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

decided we would call ourselves,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

we would name our group after Victor Hara because his question...

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

yeah so I've just to repeat that because I was because we were influenced

5:00

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

By and very moved emotionally by the example

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

of and very horrified,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

especially in the case of Chile,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

because even at that time,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

which was a few years after the events of

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the coup here,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

it was well known that the United States had

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

an involvement in that situation.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

And this was very,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

you know,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

we felt very shameful.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

that this would be the case and also the people who were involved in

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

that were the same people who we had been struggling against for

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

many years in the context of the war in Vietnam,

5:38

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

you know,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

President Nixon,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

Henry Kissinger and all of that.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

So we decided that because we loved his music and

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

because we were moved by his,

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

you know,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

his death,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

we call ourselves the Victor Hara Collective.

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S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

I want to know a little bit more detail about

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S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

the collective so who was participating and

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S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

what happened you know later with these people so

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

just to the collective was

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

quite small at the very beginning included

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

Rupert Rupneran,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

who was the Guyanese professor from Cornell,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

and then two of the people from the summer

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

film workshop,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

who were both professional cinema people,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

so it was Raymond Krill.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

who lives today in Thailand.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

And Susumu Tokuno,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

who was a filmmaker and a professional sound

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

mixer,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

sound recordist,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

who lives today in California.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

And then myself,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

who was only a graduate student and I was...

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

just eager to learn and to think about how films

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

could be important in making changes in the world.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

So it was the four of us and we

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

went down to Guyana and then we

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

were able to meet

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

and work with other people there who were able to help us

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

with getting the

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the participation of the poet Martin Carter with

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

setting up interviews with traveling around the country and

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

then a few other people joined the collective at

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

that point in time.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

to just be you know film needs a lot of people so we

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

had we had a few other people who and

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

we really tried to work in a very horizontal

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

or non -hierarchical way although we of

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

course if you're going to you know make something in a short

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

period of time you also have to recognize that certain people have certain skills

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

that aren't

8:14

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

aren't equal to other people,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

so there was that recognition as well.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

Of course,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

being the Guyanese person who had grown

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

up in the country and who had the familiarity with its history

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

and culture,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the authorship of the film

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

really is credited to Rupert because he

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

was a

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

professor of literature,

8:41

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

he was a writer,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

he was someone who also in his previous days

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

as he was educated in Cambridge in England

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

and spent some time in France doing some cinema work

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

so and in fact even at that young

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

time considered going into cinema but decided to

9:05

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

of going to literature teaching.

9:07

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

So we

9:12

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

can talk more about the actual process of making the film,

9:15

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

but to move ahead while we're on the subject of the group.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

The films were made.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

We intended to make

9:26

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the entire film in Guyana.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

and we had some small in -kind support from the government

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S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

while we were doing that.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

But at a certain point in time,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

they asked us to show them a rough cut of the film.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

They objected to our inclusion

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

of one of the prominent interviewees

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

in the film, who was Chetty Jägin,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

who was the Prime Minister,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

who was the elected leader of the government.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

During the time of the story of the film,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

During the time of the making of the film,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

he was the primary opposition leader

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

in the parliament.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

So the minister of

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

culture told us that we could not include him in

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the film because the film would then be interpreted by

10:20

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the Guyanese people as supporting

10:24

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the opposition.

10:25

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

So we're not sure if that was the...

10:29

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

true story at the same time as we were making

10:35

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the part of the film that was about the 1950s

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

we had also in our minds to make

10:44

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

this a three -part film that it wouldn't stop in the 1950s it

10:48

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

would there was another period around the time

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

that the country got independence in the middle of the 60s

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

that included a lot of

10:59

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

manipulations by the colonial powers in order to

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

ensure that a government that they liked again would

11:07

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

stay in power so there were those manipulations

11:12

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

which included manipulations in

11:16

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the labor unions which were very strong in a lot of the

11:24

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

a lot of the working people were members of labor unions,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

so that was a place to have influence in

11:32

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the voting population.

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

And at that time,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

because of the labor unions,

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

this is when the United States came in and sent

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

in people to be influential there.

11:45

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

So it's a little bit like a...

11:49

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

like a preview of something that happened here which I didn't

11:54

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

myself understand when I was 23

11:58

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

and first down there but I you know in

12:02

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

my learning about the history and what came next

12:06

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

I you know came to understand that so that's another kind of a tie

12:10

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

-in with the Chilean situation

12:14

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

so we intended to make other films and because we intended

12:18

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

to make other films while we had the opportunity we were on

12:22

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the side we think unknown to

12:26

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the government we were making interviews with people like Walter Rodney

12:30

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

who was a very controversial and very charismatic political

12:35

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

young political African Afro Guyanese as

12:39

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

they say

12:40

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

person and other people who were involved

12:44

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

in a oppositional political group called the Working People's

12:49

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

Alliance whose primary

12:53

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

reason for being in some respects was to try

12:58

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

to have a politics that involved collective leadership and

13:02

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

involved trying to overcome

13:06

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the racial divisions in the country which had been

13:11

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

fostered by colonialism in

13:16

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

order to stay in power in a situation where the colonial people are few

13:20

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

and the working people are many.

13:22

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

They make policies and programs

13:26

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

that put the working people in opposition to each other

13:30

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

and that's a very handy way of having control.

13:36

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

So the Working People's Alliance was in its early days

13:41

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

and we were filming those people.

13:43

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

So it's quite possible that Guyana is a very small country.

13:47

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

Everyone knows everyone.

13:49

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

Everyone knows what everyone else is doing.

13:51

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

And it's possible that the government also knew that we were doing that and

13:56

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

didn't want us to do that and said they would take the film

14:00

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

from us if we didn't...

14:04

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

agree to their editorial changes about it so of course

14:08

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

we neither could agree to those changes nor could

14:12

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

we let them finish the film so we were

14:17

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

able to somewhat surreptitiously

14:21

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

remove the materials that we believe

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S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

we would need from their

14:29

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

Because the government had all of the materials and you know about

14:33

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

16 millimeter production is quite different.

14:36

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

You need to need to have the physical stuff.

14:40

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

So you were working out with a

14:44

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

lot of archives.

14:44

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

So I can't even

14:48

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

remember now exactly how we did that or how

14:52

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

we knew because we we had to make a lot of guesses

14:57

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

about what we did.

15:00

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

We did that however we did that and we took

15:04

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

the film away,

15:05

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

we think without them knowing and we were

15:09

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

able to arrange for,

15:11

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

as I mentioned in my brief remarks the other night,

15:14

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

for people in the cricket team to

15:19

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

take them several suitcases full of these elements

15:23

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

out of the country and eventually they got to New York where

15:28

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

we were able to

15:29

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

and make an arrangement with a company

15:35

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

called Third World Newsreel,

15:37

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

which was a very activist distribution

15:41

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

company and also made their own films.

15:44

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

And so they allowed us to use their facilities very

15:48

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

late at night when nobody else was using them.

16:01

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

in this thing,

16:01

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you know, it's the third world,

16:03

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

this third world in Israel,

16:08

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

but also the sensitivity

16:12

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

about the colonialism problem in

16:17

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the 70s,

16:17

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you know, I think it's,

16:19

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

I don't know if they're,

16:21

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

that's in the film,

16:25

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you know, that's a very sensitive thing about,

16:27

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you know,

16:28

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the colonial problem.

16:30

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

I was thinking about that,

16:32

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you know, it's like,

16:32

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

I thought that maybe you were reading

16:36

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

in that group texts from,

16:38

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you know, Fanon and also,

16:40

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you know,

16:41

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

and also linked with viewing,

16:44

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you know, a lot of hearing music.

16:47

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

I think it was kind of new from the 70s,

16:51

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

I think, because if you saw 16 movies from political films

16:55

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

from the United States,

16:56

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

there are another province that is very in the first.

17:01

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

I mean,

17:02

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

black, Afro -American fight inside of

17:06

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

students

17:10

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

or whatever.

17:11

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

But this,

17:12

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

I think, I don't know if it was new from that

17:17

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

moment that your group began working.

17:21

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

So that kind of discussions were around.

17:25

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

You were linked with another group that were reading.

17:31

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

in the kind of similar path,

17:33

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

that's very complicated,

17:37

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

like, enrevesado,

17:39

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

enredado, but...

17:40

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

I wanted to know if there were,

17:45

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

like, active,

17:46

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

another collective production and you were reading and

17:50

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you were, like, in contact with discussions in this

17:54

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

path, you know,

17:55

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

like...

17:56

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

It was...

18:00

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

I'm not sure exactly what the question is but I mean I think that we

18:05

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

because of who we

18:09

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

were and where we were coming from at the time and

18:14

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

because of the whole context of you know

18:18

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the

18:19

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

the war in Vietnam and the politicization that happened in

18:24

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

the United States but of course throughout the world against that

18:30

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

war and I think there was kind of a new sense

18:34

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

of internationalism and the

18:38

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

way in which United States intervention

18:42

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

imperialist or capitalist intervention throughout the world wasn't limited

18:47

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

to some of the struggles that we were focused on

18:51

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

so I think you know there was a lot of I can specifically

18:55

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

remember that you know that we were looking

18:59

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

into

19:00

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

critiques that were exposing not only the government intervention but

19:04

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

the intervention of powerful American corporations.

19:08

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

So that was maybe

19:12

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

something that was a little bit...

19:15

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

a perspective that was coming out at

19:19

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

that time.

19:19

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

I mean it was a time in the late 70s where a time of a lot of...

19:24

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

exposés in American culture.

19:27

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

There were a lot of things being exposed about the

19:31

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

role of torture on the part of the CIA,

19:34

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

the role of spies in the CIA.

19:37

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

People were making important films that included

19:45

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

what we call whistleblowers or people who were part of the story

19:49

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

who then turn around and see what they're doing and who come and tell the truth

19:53

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

from the inside,

19:54

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

as it were.

19:55

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

So all of those kinds of things were sort of bubbling.

20:00

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

Up to the surface and we're kind of the

20:04

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

context that we were operating in.

20:07

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

Let's talk about the terror and the time.

20:14

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

I think a big testimony,

20:15

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

so it's a kind

20:20

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

of emotional thing that's very powerful,

20:24

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

and that's what happened to me.

20:25

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

And I think that it's about the lyricism of

20:30

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

Marty Carter's poems,

20:32

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

you know?

20:33

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

And my thought was that...

20:37

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

They have nothing.

20:38

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

They have,

20:39

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

like, this was what they had,

20:41

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

you know, poetry.

20:42

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

You know, that was the,

20:43

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you know,

20:44

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

it's the, I don't know,

20:45

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

it's a kind of radical,

20:48

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

I don't know,

20:51

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

fight, you know,

20:52

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

in that way.

20:52

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

It's about their experience,

20:54

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

you know, it's about,

20:55

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

but it's very moved in,

20:57

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

it's very,

20:57

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

like,

20:58

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

present in the movie,

21:02

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

that Martin Carter poetry,

21:05

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you know.

21:06

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

And that's what's the kind of structure in the film.

21:09

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

So I'm thinking about contrasting of

21:14

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

other films,

21:15

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

that political films,

21:16

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

that's a kind of a very interesting thing in the terror of the time,

21:20

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

you know, it's like there was something there.

21:22

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

And I wanted

21:26

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

to ask you that,

21:27

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

you know, so what happened with you when you...

21:31

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

connected with this thing,

21:33

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

with Martin Carter and also the poetry and what

21:38

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

was the role also of the poetry and writers in

21:43

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

the struggles,

21:46

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

in the anti -colonial struggles there.

21:49

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

I think it's very important there in the movie.

21:55

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

I'm not exactly sure what the specific question is,

21:59

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

but I think,

22:00

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

just going back to what we were saying a little bit earlier,

22:04

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

we thought the political

22:08

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

strategy of the collective was to make a

22:12

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

film...

22:13

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

about 1953 because it was a time that was safely in

22:17

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the past and that wasn't going to,

22:20

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

we didn't anticipate that it would,

22:23

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you know,

22:24

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

say expression in English.

22:28

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

ruffle the feathers of the establishment at

22:32

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the time that we could,

22:34

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you know,

22:34

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

everyone...

22:35

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

What do you mean ruffle the feathers?

22:36

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

Oh, it means disturbed,

22:37

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

like if you take a bird and you mess his feathers up,

22:41

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you know, it's like...

22:42

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

Ah, okay, okay.

22:47

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

So, and then of course,

22:49

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

Martin Carter was acknowledged as a

22:53

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

major Guyanese and Caribbean poet,

22:57

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

so it would be a good

23:02

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

thing for the country to showcase,

23:06

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

shall we say,

23:07

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the work of its major poet and so on.

23:10

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

As it happened,

23:14

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

as I explained earlier,

23:18

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

a lot of the people who were involved in the events of 1953

23:22

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

were still in politics in 1976,

23:25

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

which was really only,

23:27

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

you know, 20 something years later.

23:29

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

Those times were closer to each other than our

23:33

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

time is now,

23:34

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

to the time when we made the film.

23:36

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

So,

23:38

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

because this

23:43

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

was such a major...

23:45

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

event taking place in the context of a post

23:50

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

-World War II Cold War situation where as

23:55

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

it's very clear in the film we show that we show the Guyana

23:59

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

situation again in a very international context that

24:03

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the war had happened,

24:05

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the war was over,

24:07

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the things that had happened in the war were directly related

24:11

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

to the

24:14

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

a rising consciousness of people all around the planet,

24:17

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

in Africa,

24:17

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

in Asia,

24:18

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

in the Middle East.

24:19

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

And not only that,

24:22

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

but we wanted to show that in a very small country,

24:25

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

in a relatively remote place,

24:29

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

that people were very aware of these events.

24:36

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

So to discover,

24:38

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

for me it was a discovery for other people in Guyana,

24:42

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

it was well known,

24:43

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

there was this amazing small booklet of poems,

24:47

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

which not only,

24:48

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

as you may have seen in there,

24:50

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

not only were the poems a narrative,

24:53

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

in a way,

24:54

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

of the events that we wanted to,

24:57

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

that we felt would make a good story to.

25:00

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

talk about but the poems themselves had been printed in

25:04

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

a booklet that was sold to support the movement so

25:08

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the poems themselves were the kind of activism

25:12

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

yes you know in their materiality yes

25:17

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

as well as in their substance and so on

25:21

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

so like as

25:23

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

a very eloquent gentleman.

25:25

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

You see, Quayana says in the films,

25:27

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the poems were read at workers' meetings.

25:31

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

They gave people something to be proud

25:36

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

of.

25:36

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

And the

25:40

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

poet was a person who was actually an activist in

25:44

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

the time and was one of the leaders in that

25:49

S… Speaker 1 (victor jara collective (1))

government.

25:50

S… Speaker 2 (victor jara collective (1))

Yes,

25:51

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

the movie shows the...

25:52

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

the recent,

25:54

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

for that time,

25:54

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

the recent history of Guyanese and also all the

25:59

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

complicated,

26:00

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

you know, the

26:04

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

struggle and the complicated articulations

26:09

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

between power and also interest,

26:12

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

economic interests.

26:15

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

And also for that moment,

26:18

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

yes, that was a living testimony of that.

26:20

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

This was a kind of photo.

26:22

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

So maybe

26:26

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

the question is,

26:27

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

what was the commitment?

26:30

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

What do

26:41

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

you want to provoke with your film?

26:43

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

in that moment,

26:43

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

you wanted to show them to,

26:45

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

you know,

26:46

S… Speaker 3 (victor jara collective (1))

Guyanese people,

victor jara collective (1)

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