Samtale med Pappa

0:00

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

Okay, so thank you for taking the time to speak with me. As I mentioned in my email, I'm working on a research project at CBS about how Norwegian oil and gas companies recruit their board members and how the structure of these boards has evolved. I'm hoping to learn from your professional experience in executive search. And before we begin, may I confirm your consent for me to record this conversation? The recording will be transcribed for analysis and not shared outside the research team.

0:43

S… Speaker 2 (Samtale med Pappa)

I've been in executive search for about 15 years. I work both on executive search and on executive career management.

0:59

S… Speaker 2 (Samtale med Pappa)

That's probably the last part I've worked most with the last year. But I've also been in executive search for several years. What kind of board mandates do you typically work on? What I've worked most with is in the industry and media. I've also worked a lot with staff work and recruitment of staff members to ideale organizations such as Red Barn.

1:32

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

Would you say that it's a pretty common structure across board mandates? Is it a big difference in how we work with different board mandates and board structures?

1:53

S… Speaker 2 (Samtale med Pappa)

for what you lead. And it's clear that it's a situation. And so it's of course a situation of what the system is in. It's industry, media, shipping, so it's specific competencies you need. If you work with the ideal organizations as Amnesty, so it's a little more in front of menneskerettigheters problematik and just, which is more than ever.

2:22

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

Could you work me through how the process looked like from the initial brief to the final appointment, maybe in industry, for example? Can you take me through how the process looked like from the initial brief to the final appointment? Yeah, we would start, as you say, with a brief on what is important in relation to...

2:47

S… Speaker 2 (Samtale med Pappa)

to the competencies that they should have board members to. And then you will set in the same research work, which was previously done very much by researchers in executive research. It will now be more over to the AI, that you will find many candidates on the network through AI technology.

3:13

S… Speaker 2 (Samtale med Pappa)

so that the job is a bit different than it was for 3-4-5 years ago. Then you have a long list of 10-15 candidates, and then you discuss it with the drafts. Who will see the most relevant in relation to the paper? There has not talked to anyone yet, and then you can go further with five.

3:37

S… Speaker 2 (Samtale med Pappa)

So it's an interview situation with the five. And then you can go into two or three, and say that they are the best. They can do it with different angles, depending on what kind of background they have. But they can all be able to do the job and be able to do it. And then you can choose who they are going for.

3:59

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

So just to get clarification, that is how the long list is developed, and then the process to become a short list, is what you just mentioned? Yes, first a long list on 15, and then a short list on 5, and then you install it to address 2-3.

4:17

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

Okay. And how much variation do you see across companies and how they approach this? Are there particular kind of companies that tend to ask for very specific profiles and others that leave more to your general?

4:44

S… Speaker 2 (Samtale med Pappa)

Not just as a regel, but the most important thing is. But there are other conditions. It can be that it can be that it can be that it can be that it can be that it can be that it can be that it can be that it can be that it can be that it can be that people come from different parts of Norway.

5:07

S… Speaker 2 (Samtale med Pappa)

So that leads me up to my next question, which is like, is it CV credentials, prior board experience, sector expertise, network connection or something else that in your mind will be the most important? But you said that experience is the most important.

5:39

S… Speaker 2 (Samtale med Pappa)

So just to follow up on the answer you just gave, is it CV credential, prior board experience, sector expertise, network connections, or something else that in your head is like the most important aspect when recruiting to a board?

5:58

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

It would be very important from what the system has from before and what they need. Of course, if you have for example a financial competence in the system, you have maybe jurists and you have maybe no one who can at the same time, but you have maybe no one who has the big financial and economic understanding. That's what it is.

6:24

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

If it's a selskap that will grow up in a little bit of a growing phase, then it's clear that to have a network in the right environment for the selskap, will also be overthinkable. So it's not just a answer to it. It's very specific for every single one.

6:43

S… Speaker 2 (Samtale med Pappa)

Have you had like any experience of candidates who look perfect on paper but didn't make it true? And what was like the gap in the overview? What is like a candidate who looks so fitting for the position but in reality didn't fit that well? Do you have any experience with that?

7:02

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

I have experienced that we have been given candidates who have been chosen, and it has shown us that the competencies we had not completely agreed.

7:16

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

But you can also move on the other way and see that it's not always that those who have a candidate are good enough to precisely what they should have, so that they get a bad person out of the crowd.

7:38

S… Speaker 2 (Samtale med Pappa)

the gender question. And my first question would be like, have you had any experience in how the 40% growth dot changed how companies search for board members in your experience? Did it change the candidate pool you draw on? Did it change the criteria companies apply? Or did it create like a shortage of qualified women in some kind of roles? That's a lot of questions, but you can just make a general answer to that.

8:02

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

It's a factor you have to deal with. It's clear that if you have a system that is very dominant by a girl, you have to find... There is a potential. For if you just can let it to women, there are no men that can be forced. It's a little bit more than in relation to...

8:28

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

with a state of law to Amnesty International, where there were so many women in the state. So there were men who had both the competence we were out there, but they also had a man. So it happens with a lot of times. If we are out there of kvalitets and competence, then we can simply look at men, for we can't have more men in the state.

8:58

S… Speaker 2 (Samtale med Pappa)

So building on that, imagine the situation where we're searching for a female board candidate for an oil and gas company specifically. What do you think the candidate pool would look like? Where do you find people? And how would you say that the gender imbalance would be? Or how would you assume that that would be outplayed in such a recruitment process?

9:20

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

There are different types of brands that often have an overweight of kjøn, and oil and gas has traditionally had an overweight of men. And it has been a problem. Now the world has gone further, and it has been many women who also go in this direction.

9:44

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

and will be more in for both technology and financial finance, and will be able to go into oil and gas, so that now is perhaps less than it was for 10 years ago. But it's clear that it's not a branch that...

10:00

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

where to find the right relationship balance is more difficult than other industries.

10:26

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

It's very difficult to say that there is a difference between competence. If you have a background that is relevant, there is no general difference between men and men.

10:43

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

that women have often been more excited about organizational issues, and maybe less about technology and finance. But again, it's something that has ended in the last few years.

10:56

S… Speaker 2 (Samtale med Pappa)

Yeah, so a follow-up question on that is from your particular kind of executive experience, are women board members in the sector more likely to come from particular educational backgrounds? You just said a bit about it. Do you think that in your work you have met a representative set of people and that they represent different types of education if you would take everyone you had?

11:23

S… Speaker 2 (Samtale med Pappa)

Yeah, I don't know if I'm just kidding about everything here, but... Basically, it's just like, are women board members more likely to come from particular educational backgrounds? It's basically the main question.

11:40

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

It was more than that, as I said, that women had a background from a more organizational type of writing, HR and those types of things, but now it was, you know, on NTNU and...

11:54

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

and he sees schools around Europe, that there are many women who take this form of training, so it's fine with them.

12:23

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

I think it's difficult to find the difference between men and men. Men men are maybe less willing to take risks. They are a bit more trygghetsorienting than men.

12:47

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

I'm not going to document it, but it's a feeling I have, both in order to say yes to them, which they may not feel comfortable with, but also in order to take decisions in order, that they may be a bit more trustworthy, not in a negative sense, but have a bit more innsyn and more details.

13:17

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

This is not very well and scientifically documented, it's more from the feelings I have from what I've experienced.

13:39

S… Speaker 2 (Samtale med Pappa)

what you just said with that women often have more like they're more often from law or political science organizational educational backgrounds we also found that in our analysis and does that and you have you have already said it but does that distinction between men and women make sense to you in terms of what you see in the markets does it make sense that like that is the findings

14:07

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

Yeah, that makes sense. I would say I'm in agreement with what I would say. But as I said, maybe over time it would be more and more.

14:33

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

It's a bit. It's a bit difficult to answer, but if I first saw the question right here, I think it's going to go a bit, but now I'm going to tell you a bit, but I think that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that

15:04

S… Speaker 1 (Samtale med Pappa)

Yes, yes, that makes sense. Okay, perfect. Thank you for your time. That will be all the questions I had. Yeah, very good. Two seconds.

Samtale med Pappa

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