New recording 26

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S… Speaker 3 (New recording 26)

This webinar is being transcribed and summarized.

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S… Speaker 4 (New recording 26)

And Iran, at the heart of this country, lies a war that is a very complicated mix of geopolitics, alliances, the manifestations of which are what we see in the military domain, which is an asymmetric war side with a complex mix of scenes, threats, drones, ballistic missiles, et cetera.

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S… Speaker 4 (New recording 26)

As research scholars at IDSA, it is essential that when we look at this work, we try to understand the military aspects of it and see how it just forces and shifts from the picture as to the outcomes that are attempted right now.

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S… Speaker 4 (New recording 26)

I would now request please speak up to claim to slow.

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S… Speaker 4 (New recording 26)

We have three online participants.

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S… Speaker 4 (New recording 26)

I request them to put their comments online.

1:28

S… Speaker 4 (New recording 26)

He will speak for about 30 minutes.

1:30

S… Speaker 4 (New recording 26)

And sir, will you leave some more time?

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S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

Maybe.

1:37

S… Speaker 4 (New recording 26)

So, I will take this opportunity to just go back to my experiences in the world of drones.

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S… Speaker 4 (New recording 26)

The topic, ladies and gentlemen, for today is drones.

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S… Speaker 4 (New recording 26)

In the US, Israel, Iran, what lessons for India?

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S… Speaker 3 (New recording 26)

So, Narin sir, please take a look, sir.

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S… Speaker 5 (New recording 26)

Okay.

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S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

I had many videos and all those videos I am not able to highlight.

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S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

I spent last night trying to make the presentation friendly, user-friendly and all of those lines now and not.

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S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

I may not be able to show you, but I will still try to highlight some of the key aspects of this forum.

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Today, I am feeling like an academician and not like a military man who is speaking without strikes.

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Though I am a secondary man, but my biggest challenge is always how to communicate with the people who don't understand war.

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And I have to tell them what they are for and what they are for.

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So, I try my best to communicate, which I have not done that, so you can really after that bombard.

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S… Speaker 3 (New recording 26)

Okay.

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S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

What has been the trajectory of U.S. is arriving on war?

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U.S. operations, Petricide and UTM.

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Petricide means you create your own people or your own aircraft, your own, you know, weapon systems.

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And UTM is unmanned traffic management.

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Why unmanned traffic management has had a profound impact or rather some impact on operations?

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Qualabilities of soft targets.

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How effective is the air power against the hard targets?

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How effective are the growths?

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And how soft targets have come to be a new challenge for the countries which are trying to become progressive

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and trying to build a robust military base?

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And now they are becoming one of the two soft targets.

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You know, their soft targets are becoming targets of the adversary.

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Gaps in U.S. AD.

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Air defense.

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U.S. AD.

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And it's not the U.S. AD.

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It is also the partnership U.S. has established with its partner country in the Gulf.

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So what it means is that U.S. has created its own capability, but they have not shared the same expertise or rather.

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They have not prepared the kind of war they face against Iran.

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Stealth lessons.

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He had some stealth lessons which I think a little bit talked about.

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Shodhi Town of I-15 and Syox.

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And then, you know, when they started operating, the modernities of...

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And remember, everything I'll be relating to India.

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So what is happening in this war,

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we have to see what we can carry on our vessels,

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and can we recalibrate our preparedness

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so that tomorrow we are not caught unprepared.

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Iranian military operations were unique.

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U.S. losses indicate that Iranians

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could have an upper hand in some domain,

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despite U.S. and Israel having a complete air superiority over their air space.

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So another few losses which happened in air

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do not mean that U.S. did have air superiority.

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Air supremacy, so we in air force use big words so that you don't understand.

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Air supremacy means nobody will fly, and I don't have any threat.

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Air superiority means I will carry on my operation,

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I will succeed in my operation if there are few losses as I said.

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So they had a complete air superiority.

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They carried out all the operations they wanted to do it,

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except one which probably is supposed to be not in the public domain.

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Israel simultaneously is in Lebanon.

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While they were negotiating ceasefire, Israel goes to Lebanon.

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And why Iran could withstand such consulate is a single question

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which we should be taking place.

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Rest everything in nuances of military warfare.

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But why Iran fitted against the most powerful nations on this planet,

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was able to withstand.

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And what are the lessons of it?

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I think this is what we have to deliberate on.

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So, Pop Epic Turing was launched on 28 February by the U.S. at 1.15 a.m.

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He's right launched on British operations, Doring Lion.

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And Iran, in return, launched Pop True Promise.

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Very nice name.

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There was a complete asymmetry of a fair path.

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If I would compare Iran versus the right and the U.S.,

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there was a complete asymmetry of a fair path.

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Their navy was destroyed when, you know, America felt greater.

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And they used to like most of their ships.

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But their submarines were there, far and few to Vietnam.

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And, of course, they had a Gulf of Moons,

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which held hostage to the entire Soviet Union.

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So, it's a very interesting war.

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Israel, on the day two, claimed their superiority over Vietnam.

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1st March, Israeli M.O.D. went on Twitter to say,

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we have to complete a fair superiority over Iran.

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And they neutralized in due post, Iranian navy,

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and their force were neutralized.

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But drones and missiles kept harassing the Americans and their allies.

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And, of course, Israel.

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Israel is a little different, which I'll cover if we tried to Iran.

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Iran expanded the area into civil domains.

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Now, that was a new game played by Iran.

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In this U.S. operations near Nishafan,

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which probably they don't accept it.

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They are claiming they went to, you know, rescue the pilot.

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But Iranians say that they were trying to do some special operations

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near their nuclear fuel storage sites.

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So, they, in fact, Iran put up an AI-generated video

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to demonstrate how the U.S. had lost some of the, you know,

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they lost E-130, there were some helicopters,

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which were supposed to be carrying a lot of troops,

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and with great difficulty they were able to extract their fuel.

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So, as per U.S. DOD, they had conducted 13,000 strikes

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and thousands of other combat operations between 28th February and 8th April.

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According to U.S., they caused a generational military defeat.

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How was it? I gave it to you.

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That included missile factories, bomb factories,

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military depots, and everything which Iran was using

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against the Iraqis and the Iranians.

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Areas were divided between Iran and Israel.

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Israel took on certain areas,

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while U.S. took on the poor, deep areas.

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If you...

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If you...

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Three F-15s were shot down by two F-18 and the F-18.

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Now, imagine the US having the most advanced air defense and technologies which are required for collaborative operations.

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USA has a very long history of operating unmanned systems across the continent and in the world.

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And still, they lost F-15.

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And remember, we had lost Emirate in our initial operations.

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Remember, this is what is the challenge.

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Protecting your own forces while you are trying to strike adversely.

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Game came out to be the vulnerability of the superpower of this land.

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What is needed is the scale of operations of the US was much more higher than what we were undertaking.

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And we had one and they had three.

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So it indicated the kind of technologies which are needed.

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Probably USA had it.

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Whether it had shared with its partners remains a question.

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Because when you share that entire India daily network with your partners,

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then some of the information you need to share.

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Secondly, whether the US were really prepared for the kind of war that they had now.

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Because they always had air superiority to protect them against the kind of attacks which Israeli faces.

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And remember, the losses on Iran were lesser than they keep coming.

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So what is this unmanned traffic system?

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Why this factory side is becoming a challenge?

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Unless we understand that now the Interpolate on India has that cover,

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you will realize that preparation for future war will be different.

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And if the US can do the mistake, imagine what will happen to us.

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The US had deployed one of the best air defensor cells in the world.

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But they were unprotected.

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Their radar were destroyed.

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They didn't have the hardened shelters which Israel possesses.

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They didn't do the kind of, we do the movements.

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So they were the peacesters.

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They were preparing for a peacetime war.

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And that proved to be an excellent for a lot of technology,

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a lot of systems which became an easy target for them.

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And also, the soft touches that drones could take them.

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See, drones, the kind of system they have got,

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the damage they have got to Israel.

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Oh, sorry, in USA.

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Similar havoc was not seen in Israel.

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Because Israel is used to those kind of attacks.

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And they disperse their asset.

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Of course, there will be losses.

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But not as much as what was lost by Iran.

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Oh, sorry, USA.

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In fact, the drones launched by Israel and its supported organization,

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Azbullah and others,

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they were able to go close to the US target.

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They were both flying and even caused many damage.

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Beyond targeting the main data and such.

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In this war, we saw F-35 main shot.

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And the very soon, the very next moment,

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we heard that stealth is gone.

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And new solutions have gone.

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We don't need stealth.

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But remember, stealth aircraft was detected because of an infrared sensor.

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And infrared is one of the many sensors.

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It has certain limitations.

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It has certain strength.

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The multiple sensors give you ability to detect them at a larger distance.

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And that is where your air operations become dangerous.

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Remember, we were able to shoot down Pakistan.

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It's 300 kilometers deep inside.

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This was not the case in the case of Israel.

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And the US M-35 flew.

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What damage?

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First of all, if the missile is locked down,

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it should have destroyed it.

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They, of course, lost one activity.

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With the operations of so many,

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30,000 sorties by USA and 1,000 sorties by Israel,

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I think it's not really as serious threat to air operation.

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But it is a threat.

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It gives a proof of thought for the developers

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to look at what kind of sensors we need to develop

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to utilize if we have a stealth aircraft operating in our area.

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And I'm sure we all will be taking lessons

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and our people will be preparing for such threats.

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Now, shooting down on F-50,

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B,

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Thank you.

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Why did, I think, USA kind of excuse to undertake special operations, I think sigh of special operations, shrouded in another incident, provided them the deniability, which of course would have come out later, but they tried to do it, they tried to land sea 130 on unprepared surfaces, which are there, and Iranians were prepared.

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It means they were anticipating U.S. operations, and they were able to neutralize two of their C-130s, four of their, two U.S. C-60s, and four more white aircraft, now that light helicopter, the U.S. had to deal with their C-130s, where they brought tomatoes and vehicles, destroy them, and recover the manned people in the helicopters, which were over-loaded, and somehow they were able to manage.

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So I think the kind of operations, I think, there was a brilliant part in terms of kind of operational planning, but there was lack of intelligence on the side of U.S.

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It also indicated that U.S. did not have as much intelligence as the Israel. Probably it also indicates that U.S. and Iran were not sharing the intelligence the way they should have it here.

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So possibly Israel. Now, if you look at Israel's operations, they had hacked the cameras, they had many, many electronic systems of Iranians, and this is not the first time they had done it.

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If you go back into the history, U.S. had, you know, destroyed Hamas leadership by supplying teachers, which were lying with them for years, activated on the same day.

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In fact, that makes me worried, always, that kind of weapon, what are critical components we buy from our industry, good at me having vulnerabilities.

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In fact, every time I go to the camera with my face, I'm worried, because some component through Malaysia or Europe come, we will say we got it from safe sources.

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It's a worry which keeps bugging me. But I think, as a military man, I need to be apprehensive, and we need to find technical means to overcome those limitations.

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And U.S. scholars don't take hospital truth, you know, businesses are done abroad.

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So see it from a critical eye, because you are the people who will be carrying forward this research onto strategic affairs.

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Israel was better prepared than Iran. I think they used a cluster mission to cause damage to the people.

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The rest of us were not as effective as the rest of us were.

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So Israelis' preparedness for war, their dispersion of assets, their people awareness to the threats.

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You know, many Iranians say that Iranian people are perpetually prepared for war.

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I think that is what is giving them survivability against many, many attacks.

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Oh, sorry.

18:22

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Israelis.

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So I think that part we need to remember.

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And that was the reason that lawsuits to Israel were less of them.

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As per Israel, they had conducted 1,000 sorties on Iran.

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10,000 strikes were conducted.

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So this is about one aircraft to carry multiple strikes.

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So it means they had the high air superiority.

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Where they said they destroyed about 6,700 components, probably lesser equipment, and 4,000 critical

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targets.

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18,500 technicians were drawn.

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But there are male UAVs.

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And remember, when I'm talking about male, medium-altitude, long-endurance drones.

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It's like MQ-9 kind of drones.

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It's like Hermes 450, 900 kind of drones.

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It's like Heron kind of drones.

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Remember, Heron was hacked.

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You know, there were reports that had been hacked.

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And those kind of things with permeability.

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I have a video, but now we can't do it.

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Several MQ-9s.

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So all these aircraft were shot down.

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These were relatively slow.

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Not there hours.

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And we are also acquiring MQ-9.

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We are also acquiring Amin-9, which we call it Rishi-10.

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We are acquiring Heron-10.

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And not only that.

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We have our development program as Tapas.

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Aacharanji.

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On.

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Now.

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How we are trying to develop an MQ-9 equivalent as an 8, that is a proposal where Navy leaves.

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So which I have been saying that stealth is the way forward for India.

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Because India's scenario is not the same as where Americans operate.

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So every acquisition, every development program has to have these realities

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where the kind of threats we face from China and Pakistan and their partners,

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the kind of support they provide.

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So that has to get in mind.

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Iranian militaries, I think, there were three critical components of Iranian strike capability.

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One was four-thigh bulb, maybe.

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Mines can be the fourth, but you know, mines or a whole world war area.

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But missiles, drones, and cruise missiles.

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Cruise is missiles for the limited number, very limited number.

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If you calculate total, they will come down to 100 or 150 missiles.

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They launch up all states, very few.

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If you calculate the kind of drones, they were the highest,

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it goes down to about 5,000, which I had, could be much more in numbers.

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Then come the missiles, barrisings, which will come down to about one-third of the drones.

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So predominant strength of Iran was drones.

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After some, the missiles were too few, but very few.

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So these can be found limited.

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Iran expanded the country over.

21:41

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

First, they stuck the community of the basis of the U.S.

21:45

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

Then they stuck refinery, airports, critical infrastructure.

21:49

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

Israel's nuclear installation also they tried.

21:53

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

More importantly, data centers.

21:55

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

Remember, India is now setting up data centers in India.

21:58

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

We have collaborated.

21:59

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

And these data centers were also set up by these countries in collaboration with global partners.

22:04

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

They were lying open and they were being neutralized.

22:06

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

So we need to think what we need to do data center, which is so important as civilian facility.

22:13

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Desalination plan and the civilization.

22:18

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

Of course, the threat of blocking the Gulf of our known remains.

22:23

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

The kind of drones Israel, Iran started using.

22:27

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

Now this was a very different approach.

22:32

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

Their drones became really a template for others to follow, which I have a travel maker.

22:38

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

Just to give you the figures, UAE had intercepted 2,256 drones, 537 missiles, 26 drones missiles, total of about 2,819.

22:54

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

Saudi Arabia, 870 drones, 59 gunfighting missiles, and 6 drones missiles.

23:01

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

With 845 drones, 354 gunfighting missiles.

23:08

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

354 gunfighting missiles, 15 gunfighting missiles.

23:09

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

Bahrain, 515 gunfighting missiles, 194 gunfighting missiles.

23:17

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

But the command, after 4 or 5 attacks, they withdrew.

23:21

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

Because command was acting as a mediator between them.

23:25

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

So we say command's national website claims that we had done.

23:31

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

We were able to maintain the partial approach and we were not contracted.

23:35

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

So US losses, 4 air 15, some say 1 or 2 A-10, which are basically air to ground attack fighters.

23:50

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

Probably these kind of fighters do not survive in Indian scenario.

23:54

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

They can survive where the air defense is dead.

23:58

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

UN-60 helicopters, MC-130 commando, which we have C-130Js, 4 MH-6 little birds, 1 F-35 damaged, 2 AVAX per shot or damaged on ground.

24:15

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

AVAX is a strategic asset and their vulnerability is a proof of thought.

24:20

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

How do we protect such a high value asset, C-130.

24:27

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

7 or 8 KC-135, 1 CH-47, which is a medium lift helicopter.

24:34

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

We also have, it is called Chinook in India, probably.

24:40

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

NQ-9, the planes are varying between 12, 17, 24 and plus.

24:47

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

Now that kind of vulnerability, the US can afford it.

24:51

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

As regards to Israel is concerned, Israel had also lost about Harveen and Iran about wealth.

24:57

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

But there are views that Israel did.

24:59

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

We have a great company.

24:59

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Did we get it in attendance?

25:00

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

view them from operation.

25:02

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

I think that part has a lesson.

25:05

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

And of course, they lost radars and other critical aspects.

25:11

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

When ceasefire was established, so for two weeks,

25:20

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

2067 people died in Iran, 26 in Israel, 13 in USA,

25:25

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

28 in Gulf State.

25:26

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So I think this is a Turkish figures.

25:31

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Israel says it is observing ceasefire,

25:34

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

but it launched an operation in Lebanon.

25:37

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

And simultaneously, I think there's

25:40

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

some capability that it stuck all their command centers in one

25:44

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

row, about 100 to 130, which probably Israel continues

25:49

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

to pay attention to it.

25:51

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

And remember, if you see the kind of operations undertaken

25:55

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

by USA versus Iran, compared to Israel.

26:01

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

USA has thrown 30,000 sorties.

26:05

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Iran has done only 1,000.

26:07

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So Iran had its priorities going with what it wanted.

26:14

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Talks have failed.

26:15

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

We are all aware, because of dissentiments.

26:17

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

US is now threatening to blow the Harbouz state.

26:20

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So now, from Iran, now both are partners, both are trying to block.

26:25

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

But now, the Iran, which it was earning money,

26:28

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

the US is trying to block it.

26:31

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Israel recently, this morning,

26:33

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

I heard that Iran says war should be on if there is no peace,

26:40

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

no continuation of peace, or continuation of peace.

26:46

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Now, let's understand the efficacy of drones.

26:49

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Is there any single drone which hit a heavily defended,

26:58

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

deep penetra, didn't carry out any deep penetrations, right?

27:01

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

No.

27:01

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

All targets were softer.

27:04

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So drones had done some capability.

27:06

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

They had the capability.

27:07

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

They harassed everyone.

27:08

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

And they damaged everything which was softer.

27:13

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

They had attacks.

27:13

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

They have air-to-air refuelers, AVACs, helicopters, drones on ground,

27:20

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

anything which was softer.

27:22

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Now, everything can't be put in our own shedding.

27:27

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Now, that is the challenge of today's war.

27:30

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

If we have to prepare for future war,

27:32

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

because these assets are also important.

27:35

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Or we need to redesign these assets,

27:38

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

or we need to redesign our strategy.

27:41

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

If we have to fight a long war with China or others,

27:45

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

they have very low weight of attack.

27:47

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

And still, the country which have those facilities,

27:52

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

they are trying to sell it as the best weapon.

27:54

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

But we have to really draw our own lesson, and then go for it.

28:01

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

One more thing which came to my understanding was,

28:05

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

AI is not a replacement for mandated data so far.

28:09

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Unless we understand this part, that AI is important.

28:13

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

We cannot ignore it.

28:15

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

But let's not exaggerate the data.

28:18

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

There should be a rational, realistic assessment of current capability.

28:23

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

And remember, always we like to keep track of disruption.

28:28

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Because any one disruption can really change the track.

28:31

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

If we understand that, then we are on right track.

28:35

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Now, I come to my main question.

28:37

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Why Iran could withstand the onslaught?

28:43

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

First of all, Iran had better appreciation of vulnerability of U.S. and its allies.

28:51

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Its deliberate effort to use, you know, to attack the open or soft target,

29:00

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

its effort to expand to their country,

29:03

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

which were looking at prosperity and was heavily dependent on U.S. citizens,

29:06

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

and while the U.S. citizens were not prepared for the kind of onslaught which,

29:12

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

you know, kind of threats which Iran took.

29:15

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So I think that really was really demonstrating that Iran's threat.

29:23

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

One more part I think this war saw was they had this army's landing.

29:31

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Now remember, when you do that, you get the technology updates

29:36

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

for the vulnerabilities of your adversaries.

29:40

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

This is not the first time.

29:41

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

In 2004, December 2001, Iran had landed RP-170.

29:48

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So Iran has always been audacious in trying to do things beyond what was normal.

29:56

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Because not only you are trying to reflect, and it really...

29:59

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

really...

30:00

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

It has clearly stated that we will leverage the technologies to exploit the vulnerability.

30:09

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Tech sovereignty was a civil-minded approach of Iran.

30:14

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

They did not go with that notion that we need to go for collaboration.

30:20

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

They did not go for the best technology, which was just not available.

30:24

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

And that is the approach which probably we didn't have to learn.

30:28

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

And remember, there are a lot of narratives in the public.

30:33

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Oh, they had access to the European system.

30:36

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

They might have, but they had their own plan.

30:39

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Now, unless we understand that, we will always be drawing lessons.

30:43

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Oh, commercial drones are there.

30:45

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

And if you see the lessons from previous wars, even war with Ukraine,

30:51

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

again, the same lessons were learned that self-reliant was the only saviour of Ukraine

30:58

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

and then people died using Chinese or commercial drones or even Turkish drones or nuclear land.

31:04

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

And then Ukraine was approached by other countries to help them.

31:08

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

The kind of help they were providing, they had offered to the English

31:11

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

after learning lessons from their own war with Russia.

31:14

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

U.S. designed their local drone, which was based on Shahid.

31:19

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Russia drawing, designed Geron drone, which was a Shahid replica.

31:24

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

And now Indians are also, many Indians are trying to undertake.

31:28

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So, what is it? Did it have a good engine? Did it have a good technology?

31:33

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

No, it had a good engine.

31:35

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

It had an indigenous technology.

31:37

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

It had easy to develop technology.

31:40

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

What existing capabilities provided and smart use.

31:45

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

But it was vulnerable.

31:46

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

There is very high iteration.

31:48

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

But still the cost of air defense was high on the U.S.

31:54

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Israel was better to pay.

31:55

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

And their effectiveness was destroyed with better to pay.

32:00

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So, I think, last weekly lessons I will bleed out.

32:04

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

We need to reduce our name and the input of stealth technology.

32:09

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Ghatap. Ghatap has been waiting for quite some time.

32:17

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

We tested our scale model.

32:23

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Smaller size.

32:25

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

On 1st July 2022.

32:27

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So, 2nd July I was in detail.

32:30

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

And then initiated to apply to the flu with the tail.

32:34

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Then they removed the tail also.

32:35

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

They have been developing.

32:36

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Quite hard.

32:37

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Development process has been released.

32:39

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Most of our project, Ghatap, Tappas, short regularly,

32:44

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

have not been made successfully.

32:45

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

The technology ownership that we see in Iran

32:47

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

is not as much seen in India.

32:49

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Secondly, the kind of urgency seen in Iran,

32:52

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

they went three shifts a day to work.

32:54

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

We continue to work on one shift.

32:56

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Whether it's a case of NCA, whether it's a case of Hamta,

32:59

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

whether it's a case of any other project.

33:01

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So, unless we understand seriousness has to be seen on the ground,

33:05

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

even Kaveri.

33:07

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

When it failed, we achieved something.

33:09

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

We are not gone for phase two of Kaveri.

33:11

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So, technology ownership.

33:14

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Unmet traffic management.

33:16

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Everybody knows Indian entities have the capability to develop.

33:20

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

We need unmet traffic management in civil.

33:22

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

We need a military.

33:23

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

The board showed the vulnerabilities of civil assets.

33:26

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

If you cannot detect a drone in civil,

33:29

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

you cannot tell the military to neutralize it.

33:31

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So, civil UTM, unmet traffic management system,

33:35

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

with the AD system, and the military UTM,

33:37

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

both are the need of the heart.

33:39

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Then entities like BSF, ITDP,

33:42

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

which are guarding our border,

33:44

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

if they are not part of counter-drone and drone integration

33:48

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

command and control system,

33:49

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

we will have our vulnerability.

33:51

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So, what we need?

33:53

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

We need 8 to 10 kilometers short-range missile,

33:57

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

because below QR SAM, which is a 25-kilometer vehicle,

34:01

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

we do not have an effective other than Shodaka.

34:04

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

And the 8 to 10 kilometer radar guided,

34:06

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

and we need, you know, good systems,

34:10

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

we need that missile.

34:12

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Then we need multi-sensor, multi-shooter system.

34:15

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Like, I need a missile, I need a Jomar,

34:18

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

and I need a NTA command, probably on the movable system,

34:22

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

or as a combination of ground systems.

34:24

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Understand what I am trying to say?

34:26

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Because these kind of threats, if they penetrate,

34:28

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

we do not have a current system.

34:31

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Tech ownership remains a problem.

34:33

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

If you see how Iran did it,

34:35

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

they had a Ministry of Defense Export Center one day,

34:38

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

and most of the innovation ownership was done by Iranian military.

34:43

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

In collaboration with industry and design agencies,

34:46

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

I think these are the lessons we needed to take in.

34:50

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Thank you, Chip, for being able to provide more.

34:54

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Thank you.

35:00

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

My conclusion in the speaker was, even as a holistic perspective, not just a liberal

35:06

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

approach, holistic perspective of how Iran clearly, which was supposed to be the military

35:11

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

underdog here, has managed to very cleverly sustain efforts of at least four decades,

35:18

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

able to leverage technology and strategy to prevail upon not just one superpower, but

35:27

S… Speaker 2 (New recording 26)

to very strong buildings. I may now request the DGT if we have any problems.

35:33

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

What is counter-drawn capability of India?

35:39

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Of India? India. Okay. Thank you, sir.

35:44

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Counter-drawn capability of India. See, what is counter-drawn capability?

35:51

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

We require detection, tracking, neutralization system.

35:57

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Identification and neutralization.

35:59

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Detection comes with your sensors. Detection also comes with when you know your own friendly

36:07

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

people. So you're friendly to a man, a man, a man, a man. And anything else you know inside

36:12

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

of us, you know, can be hostile. So detection, the kind of system we have, I think we have

36:20

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

improved, but there are significant gaps. In the civil segment, we are not creating, we

36:26

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

have started a program called Digital Sky, which was supposed to be a single platform for

36:32

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

monetary, real-time tracking of friendly drones by collaborative. Collaborative means they will

36:38

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

actually pass their own position. And anything which is not passing its own position, we will

36:44

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

consider as, you know, hostile or unfriendly. But that system has not been operational. So which has to be done by

36:51

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

industry? The second air defense layer is CAPM. I think there also we have a significant gap. In terms of military, to give you a very simple example, I said we don't have an 8 to 10 kilometer current sensor

37:09

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

missile. So if we have a swarm threat, we need an integrated air defense system. So what does an integrated air defense system mean? I have five guns. If I really want to use AI with the current capability, I will tell each gun, I will program it in such a manner that it tracks five different targets on its own, which is what AI does. And it has a night capability. It tracks and locks on and then

37:38

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

ask the human being to fire or not. So you have a human oversight. So you have a human oversight, but you can take multiple targets. And once a target is destroyed, it has intelligence enough to go to the next target. Because that is what the strong threats are causing. And Iran actually saturated the defenses of the universe. So currently, I think we have a lot to do. We are not yet there.

38:02

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

We are not yet there. But you know, initiatives like Akash 3, IACCRs, they give us some capability, but lack of, you know, grows in indigenous counter-grown system. And C2 systems like Digital Sky, and their integration with their system, and a better air defense system, we still have to do a lot.

38:31

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So I find, so I find, I had looked at the IDEX programs. They are efforts in isolation. They are not a holistic approach. So I think, I think one of the way to correct this will be if we have a tri-service R&D verticals. Because we have plans. If you look at the plans, we have all the plans.

38:55

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Because somebody has to take the ownership. Because it's a gap area. Because these are low cost, when I say low cost, the RTO has somehow been told not to get into the small projects of, I think, 2000 crores.

39:13

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So they have been given some limitations. And these will come in somewhere in that time. So it's not their responsibility. Private industry will not work unless they have the assured orders. And somebody is able to accept the failure.

39:25

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

So they will not work. So I think this is a critical gap which we have to really, which can come from a higher organization needing R&D. Always they say, what is it called? Where we have maximum deaths.

39:41

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Value of death. Value of death. Value of death military plays. Because when we say, why we need military R&D verticals, they are the critical owners of letting the industry pass the value of death. And that gap.

40:00

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

exists even today because our design vertical

40:02

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

say everything is available, but they don't take the option.

40:06

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

Barring few ADEX initiative, that has to go

40:10

S… Speaker 1 (New recording 26)

at a much larger level.

New recording 26

Sommario

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