250520_1023
May 18, 2026 12:10
· 23:06
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0:11
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Madam,
0:12
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
here you come.
0:13
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Can you look at the
0:17
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
document titled Inaltor Saksi Matulis
0:21
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
in front of you,
0:22
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
which runs
0:27
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
into level pages?
0:28
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Yes.
0:36
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Madam
0:42
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
T,
0:45
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
I presume that you have been an expert evidence in other costs
0:49
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
before this call,
0:50
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
right? Yes,
0:52
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
ma 'am. So,
0:53
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
when I ask you the question,
0:55
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
please listen to my PhD care -free,
0:57
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
or my dental transplant patient.
0:59
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
If you do not understand,
1:00
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
you can ask her,
1:01
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
sorry please.
1:01
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
But when you answer,
1:03
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
you look at it on a local judge and answer to you,
1:07
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
okay? Judge and call judge.
1:08
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
You have already amended your case to case
1:12
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
59,
1:14
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
not 57,
1:14
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
right?
1:16
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Would you like to make any more amendments to this
1:20
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
witness statement?
1:22
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Yes,
1:23
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
point.
1:24
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Which question?
1:26
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Question
1:33
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
number eight.
1:33
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Number eight,
1:36
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
point.
1:36
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
The question states,
1:40
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
can you tell the court as to how and when
1:44
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
you received the documents from the defendants?
1:49
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
I answered only one cup of me.
1:52
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
I received instruction from Mrs.
1:55
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Adilza Subra City and Partners,
1:57
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
the defendant lawyer,
1:59
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
to conduct the examination.
2:01
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
until the specimen signature of
2:06
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
imaging in the specimen document item SN1 to SN56
2:10
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
wrote the distributed signature of imaging in
2:14
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
the condition for electricity supply document QN.
2:18
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
So I would like to take on my
2:23
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
report to answer to update that
2:27
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
particular question.
2:48
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
so the answer
2:58
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
actually
3:05
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
is in the paragraph 1 .2
3:09
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
On page 3,
3:10
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
the top right page 3,
3:12
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
paragraph 1 .2 that says,
3:15
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
I received the bundle of documents in three batches.
3:19
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
1 .2 .1,
3:21
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
the first was a bundle of documents in the form of a company secretary
3:25
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
minute book,
3:26
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
was hand delivered by Mr Wong Chung San on 4 April
3:31
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
2023 at Ergurking Bandar Sojana Petra
3:35
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Jinjang.
3:37
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
And then paragraph on 2 .2,
3:39
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
on 9 May 2023,
3:41
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
you see by hand from Mrs.
3:44
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Abduliza Subra City and Partners,
3:46
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
the second bundle of documents at my office at a
3:50
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
level 8 MCT Tower Sky Park,
3:53
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
one city,
3:54
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Jalan with SJ,
3:55
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
25 -1 -47650 Subang
3:59
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Jaya Selangor.
4:01
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
and in paragraph 1 .2 .3,
4:03
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
on 1 June 2023,
4:06
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
received by hand from Mrs Atleza Subra City
4:10
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
and Partners the third bundle of documents consisting through original
4:15
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
passports of family chain at Level 8 NCT Tower Sky
4:19
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Park 1CT,
4:20
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Jalan 8SJ 25 -1 47650
4:25
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Subang Jayasen Maw.
5:26
S…
Speaker 4 (250520_1023)
H3,
5:27
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
driver 1 .2,
5:29
S…
Speaker 7 (250520_1023)
1 .2,
5:31
S…
Speaker 3 (250520_1023)
1 .2,
5:32
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
1 .2, 2 .3,
5:34
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
1 .2.
6:56
S…
Speaker 6 (250520_1023)
This document is a report,
6:59
S…
Speaker 6 (250520_1023)
forensic document examination report that I prepared
7:04
S…
Speaker 6 (250520_1023)
on the 9th of June.
7:12
S…
Speaker 3 (250520_1023)
The point of view is as
7:16
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
D.
7:17
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
The point of view
7:22
S…
Speaker 5 (250520_1023)
is O.
7:23
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
The point of view is
7:31
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
D. The point of view is
7:38
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
D.
10:06
S…
Speaker 4 (250520_1023)
I will refer you to the questions document and
10:10
S…
Speaker 4 (250520_1023)
the question signature at page 31 of bundle B.
10:14
S…
Speaker 5 (250520_1023)
At
10:47
S…
Speaker 4 (250520_1023)
page 31,
10:47
S…
Speaker 5 (250520_1023)
my question
10:53
S…
Speaker 7 (250520_1023)
to you is,
10:54
S…
Speaker 5 (250520_1023)
can
11:00
S…
Speaker 4 (250520_1023)
you for sure generally say
11:05
S…
Speaker 4 (250520_1023)
that this signature that can be
11:09
S…
Speaker 4 (250520_1023)
seen at the bottom of that page here is not that of Madam
11:13
S…
Speaker 4 (250520_1023)
Ng Mei Jing?
12:02
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
is it possible that
12:06
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
i ask my question in malay and you can choose my question to answer my
12:11
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
question in english is it possible yeah i
12:16
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
will i will try to replace my question in english sure
12:31
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
can report at page 13,
12:35
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
what? 13.
12:38
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Sorry,
12:40
S…
Speaker 3 (250520_1023)
what?
12:40
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
A conclusion
12:45
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
section.
12:46
S…
Speaker 3 (250520_1023)
Yes.
12:47
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
When you wrote there,
12:49
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
there is
12:54
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
a probability that the writer of Ng Me Chang in the specimen
12:58
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
signature item as N3A until as
13:03
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
N31 did not write the question signature item 2N.
13:07
S…
Speaker 3 (250520_1023)
Yes.
13:10
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
So, they emphasize here is the word probability.
13:12
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Yes,
13:14
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
it's a probability.
13:15
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Okay,
13:16
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
but...
13:17
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
I want to direct one to
13:21
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Muka Surat 39.
13:23
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Ah,
13:24
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
simple.
13:26
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Ah,
13:27
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
yeah, simple.
13:27
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Three, two,
13:28
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
three.
13:29
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
One,
13:30
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
five.
13:30
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Ah,
13:32
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
that's enough.
13:32
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Okay.
13:33
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Whether when you say that there's a probability
13:37
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
that the defendant,
13:39
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
what I mentioned,
13:40
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
did not wrote the question signature?
13:44
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Does it mean that there's another third person who wrote your question,
13:48
S…
Speaker 7 (250520_1023)
Sibetan?
13:49
S…
Speaker 6 (250520_1023)
When the probability
13:53
S…
Speaker 6 (250520_1023)
means that there is a...
13:56
S…
Speaker 6 (250520_1023)
...kemungkinan that that's a different letter.
14:00
S…
Speaker 6 (250520_1023)
But because of the limitation that
14:04
S…
Speaker 6 (250520_1023)
I have encountered during the examination.
14:07
S…
Speaker 6 (250520_1023)
Seperti yang saya dapat tu
14:11
S…
Speaker 6 (250520_1023)
ialah photocopy.
14:27
S…
Speaker 6 (250520_1023)
I cannot answer for that because I based
14:32
S…
Speaker 6 (250520_1023)
on my observation saying that there is a probability
14:36
S…
Speaker 6 (250520_1023)
that is a different writer.
14:44
S…
Speaker 6 (250520_1023)
It's a different person from the right seat.
15:04
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
The question is if it is what?
15:07
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Can I say that?
15:35
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
to determine whether it is
15:40
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
The Al -Sultan of fraud is
15:45
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
actually the examiner's people can only give
15:49
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
the court the findings of probability.
15:52
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
The determination of fraudulent or Al -Sultan
15:56
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
is usually determined by the court based on all
16:00
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
the evidence they report the court.
16:17
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
It's not under my capability or
16:21
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
area to mention that.
16:35
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
When you make this conclusion that the
16:40
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
writer did not write the question signature,
16:42
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
what is the most appropriate action to
16:47
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
be taken by the writer based on your experience?
16:50
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
So yeah,
16:51
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
she made the policy.
17:36
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
I just
17:44
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
want one simple question for you.
17:46
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
My fellow friend,
17:48
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
the solicitor for the plaintiff,
17:50
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
asked your question that you were not
17:54
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
supplied with the original copy of the question
17:59
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
document that is in part in
18:03
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
page 39 of your
18:07
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
examination report.
18:08
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
You were
18:12
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
not given the original of the document.
18:15
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
to you and you admitted yes,
18:17
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
the answer was yes.
18:19
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Can you explain to the court why you are not provided with the original?
18:22
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Usually,
18:25
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
on all cases,
18:28
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
you are always required to examine the original.
18:31
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
However,
18:32
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
when I requested from the...
18:36
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Mrs.
18:36
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Atliza Soutran City,
18:39
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
for the doctor's original,
18:41
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
I will say that there is no original form for
18:45
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
me to examine.
18:46
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
The original cannot be provided.
18:48
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
So I will have to use the photocopy
18:53
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
for my examination.
19:15
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Then we can see the specimen
19:19
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
that is affected with the specimen.
19:22
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
You can
19:28
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
see the composition of the body.
19:29
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
This is another case.
19:33
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
The specimen
19:37
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
that is affected with the specimen of the body.
19:41
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
It is very different if
19:45
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
you are not experts
19:50
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
like you.
19:50
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
Does it still give you a proportion,
19:54
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
probability,
19:55
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
or maybe you can give a force?
19:58
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Okay,
20:02
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
for cases,
20:03
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
many cases that I can do like this.
20:11
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
So usually,
20:12
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
if it's so obvious,
20:17
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
maybe one rep as A and one rep as a Z,
20:21
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
but we can't be able to
20:25
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
make sure why.
20:26
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
First,
20:29
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
the possibility of the signage is
20:33
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
that people are really different.
20:36
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
The second is the possibility of other people
20:40
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
because they don't have a model.
20:44
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
They don't know how many people are doing science,
20:48
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
so they're just doing science.
20:52
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
So you can see totally different.
20:55
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Because the second thing is that people don't
21:00
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
write, but they do
21:06
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
it with the intention to say
21:12
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
that they don't see me.
21:13
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
The intention is
21:17
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
that in the future,
21:18
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
I will say that they don't want to write.
21:19
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
That means they call it disguise.
21:24
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
The third thing is why we can't give
21:29
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
a certain proof of the case.
21:31
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Maybe we
21:36
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
can get a sample from the actual
21:41
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
writer to get the same so that
21:45
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
we can get the same.
21:47
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Atau,
21:48
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
if they don't have a solution,
21:52
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
they don't have a solution.
21:52
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
That means they don't have a solution.
21:54
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Because we share it,
21:57
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
because there are two possibilities that are different.
22:01
S…
Speaker 1 (250520_1023)
The conclusion is that there is a possibility.
22:05
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Yes,
22:06
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
because for someone who doesn't
22:10
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
want to copy the
22:14
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
person's signature,
22:15
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
they are going to do less than the same.
22:18
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
So that they will pass.
22:21
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Then they will check,
22:23
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
then they will write less than the same.
22:26
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
So if they don't want to do more,
22:28
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
they will do less than the same.
22:30
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
Itulah one of the principles and rationale behind how
22:36
S…
Speaker 2 (250520_1023)
they look at the case.
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