Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Good evening everyone and welcome to the Oxford Union for the first event of 2016.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Tonight we are asking ourselves the most topical of questions both

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

within Oxford and without.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Must.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Roads.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Four.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

We have an expert panel here tonight and you can find more information

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

on the speakers in the programmes on your seats.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Working from my right to my left,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

we have Tokozo Kwabe,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Yasmin Kumi,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Atenangamso Nkoko,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Professor Richard Drayton,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Professor William Beinart,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Professor Nigel Bigar and Sophia Cannon.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

The format for the discussion will be as follows.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Each speaker on the panel will have a maximum of two minutes

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and 30 seconds for their opening statement.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I will ring the bell once at two minutes and twice at two

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

minutes 30.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I will then ask follow -up questions to prompt a general discussion among

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the panelists on the points that are raised.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

This will be followed by as many questions as possible from the audience.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Please wait to be recognised by me and also for the microphone to be handed to

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

you by Noah before asking your question.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

After the general discussion,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

each speaker will have a maximum of two minutes for their closing statement.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I will ring the bell once at 1 minute 30 seconds and twice

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

at 2 minutes.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

All members will then vote with their feet on the question,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

must Rhodes fall?

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

With those saying yes,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

walking out the door,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

marked eyes,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and those saying no,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

walking out the door,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

marked nose.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

If you are in the gallery,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

you will also be allowed to vote,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and will be instructed as you walk down the stairs as to where you

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

need to walk in order to indicate your decision.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

With that,

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I look to Nkozo Kwabe for your opening statement.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Thank you,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Stuart.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Thank you,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

thank you very much.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Stuart,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

before just getting into my opening statement I

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

would like to dispose of a particular matter which

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I think is important and that is that the space that we are in

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and the space that we are required to hold this debate is not neutral.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

This space last year declared itself institutionally

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

racist and we think that the fact that a

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

debate about

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

colonial legacy and about institutional racism is taking place in a space that

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

is in itself institutionally racist is a problematic that we must engage

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

as we continue this debate.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

But I do want to say that I do want to urge you as

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

we debate this tonight to pay attention to not

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

only the polarized statue debate that is going on

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and that has been presented in the media as our only

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

demand or our only mission as Roads Must Fall.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

We have a broad program that

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

we are advocating for at Oxford and

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

that interrogates how patents of exclusion function

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

at Oxford.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

We are interrogating the exclusion of black and minority ethnic

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

voices in the curriculum,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

we are interrogating the ways in which Oxford remains

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

a space that is exclusive to

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

black professors,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

for example.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

We don't think that an Oxford University that purports to be inclusive in the

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

21st century

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

can only have one full -time black professor.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

We think there's something deplorable about that.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And we are raising these issues using the statue as an emblem

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

under which we are sparking the debate.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

We are also talking about...

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Other things relating to the composition of the student body we find it

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

deplorable that there are only 24 black British

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

students that have been accepted for last year into

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the undergraduate student body simply because Oxford again

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

only selects its students

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

from particular elite private schools and some public schools and

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

we think there is a statement to be made about how

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

structures of exclusion persist at Oxford and that

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

is what I would urge you to engage going forward.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

The broad goals of the movement that we have articulated in

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the Democratic General Assemblies that we've held at Oxford and

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

yes it's not just about the statue and I'm hoping for

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

substantive engagement tonight on the broad issues that

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

we are raising.

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S… Speaker 3 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Thank

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

you very much Takozo.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I now turn to Yasmin Kumi for your opening statement.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Thank you.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I'm going to remain seated because it's much more comfortable now that we started the trend.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

What I want to strongly highlight tonight is three points.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

First,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

it's personally clear to me that the necessity to remove the statue is inevitable.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Secondly, I think,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

equally to what Tokozo said,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

that the debate tonight should be about a broader issue,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

which is institutional racism and the decolonization of education within Oxford,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

a topic that we urgently need to talk about.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

The third point I'm going to make is that Roads Must Fall is

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

not a movement of a minority of black students.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

It's actually a movement across skin color that demands all of us to engage,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and I hope that each and every single person of you in this room is going to engage with it tonight.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Now, why do I think that the statute debate is actually a no -brainer for me?

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I think that because we're asking the question whether roads must fall.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

When we say must,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

we actually call upon conventions within our society that allow us to refer to something

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

as an obligation,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

that allow us to say whether something is wrong or whether something is right.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

To me, it's evident that a leader who led the ideology of the century -long supremacy

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

of the Anglo -Saxon race,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

such as Rhodes,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

does not deserve the glorification through an elevated statue at Oxford University,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

despite the fact that he has rendered money into scholarships.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

As a half -German,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I can assure you that we do not have a single statue of Hitler in our country,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

despite the money he invested into infrastructural systems we are benefiting from until date.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Yes,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I'm comparing Rhodes and Hitler,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

not because I have counted the lives they have taken,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

but because the danger

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

of their crimes light in their racist ideologies.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Now,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

how does the Africa society that I'm speaking for tonight view this debate?

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

You know,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

to be honest, we have quite a strong representation of students from West Africa in the Africa society.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Quite a few of them are not active members of Roads Must Fall at Oxford.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Roads' footprint mainly was in southern Africa.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

The identification with Roads as an image is not as

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

straightforward for non -southern African students.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

But if you ask them whether they think that there's a problem about colonized education

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

in Oxford or a problem with institutional racism in Oxford,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

they would all have their stories to share.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Which is why our members voted last term that 90 % of them are

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

supportive of collaborating with votes must fall on selected issues.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

So here I'm standing saying that I think what has to fall

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the most is institutional racism in Oxford and I'm happy to give more examples about that later

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

in our debate.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

What I would like to say at last is

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

what I experienced about the movement and why I'm saying it's not a black movement.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

At the protest in Michaelmas Term in front of Oriel College,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

we had more white participants than black participants.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

A minority cannot free itself from being suppressed in

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

one or the other way in an education institution like Oxford.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

It demands that the majority is equally engaging,

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

which is why I'm sitting here tonight to engage with you.

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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Thank you.

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S… Speaker 3 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Thank

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

you very much for that, Yasmin.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I now turn to Asana Ngamso Ngopo for your opening statement.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Thank you.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

It's true that the statue is,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

for us as Rosemars Fall,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

emblematic of something that's a lot more problematic and perhaps

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

more damning to the experience of black and minority students who

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

are in this environment.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

But the statue itself is,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

as a result,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

very important for us to interrogate and for us to do a way

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

up, considering how it is that statues function in

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

society.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

We think that statues function to reflect the ways in which institutions,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

societies imagine themselves.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And being at that Oxford University has all of these structural problems

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

we put before you,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

we think that them having a statue of Cecil John Rhodes overlook

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

us.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

on High Street at the entrance of Oriel College on a pedestal

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

is very problematic,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

considering that when Oxford broadcasts itself to the world,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

it says it is open,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

it is inclusive,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

it is a leading 21st century global institution.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

We think then what Max Price says at the removal of the Rhodes

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

statue at UCT in Cape Town is really important,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

that the position of Rhodes statue on UCT campus

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

said something about the values of that university.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

So this ought to be a debate about,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

at least insofar as the statue is concerned,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the ways in which Oxford University wants to portray itself and

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the ways in which it imagines itself.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Putting a plaque next to it...

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

putting a sign under it is very difficult to

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

engage when that statue stands.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

In living colour,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

life -size above us all on High Street.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Because in societies,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

statues are to commemorate,

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

are to glorify those people whose ideas and

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

whose actions have given us a way through which to

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

travel history as we imagine ourselves to be.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

So the way up for Oxford University in terms of keeping the statue there or

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

removing the statue is about saying how the university

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

wants to imagine itself and the ways in which its configuration

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

affects the lives of those people affected by empire

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

all throughout the Global South.

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

We urge you in this debate to think very carefully about what it is that

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the university has to lose when it removes that statue and replaces

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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

it with someone or something that we can all be proud of.

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S… Speaker 3 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Thank you.

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S… Speaker 3 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Thank

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

you very much for that.

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I now turn to Professor Richard Droitin for your opening statement.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I admire Rhodes.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I fully confess it.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And when his time comes,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I shall buy a piece of the rope for a keepsake.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

So said Mark Twain.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Rhodes' contemporaries thought him at best a scoundrel,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

stock manipulator,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

briber,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

bully, and at worst a criminal.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Leckie suggested he should be jailed.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Rhodes Chesterton wrote,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

invoked slaughter,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

violated justice,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and ruined republics.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

In 1899,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

almost 100,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

including the master of Balliol,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

both proctors,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the librarian of Bodley,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and the cream of intellectual Oxford,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

including Mr.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Biggers' predecessor and the chair of theology,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

signed a memorial against Rhodes receiving an honorary degree.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Contrary to what you've heard,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the best spirits of his age held Rhodes in a contempt equal

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

to our own.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

But these voices were written out of history by the

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

free speech of Rhodes' money.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Even more silenced were the tens of thousands of

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

African victims of his regime.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Rhodes did not give to Oxford.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

He sought to buy at Seoul.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

He sought to launder his reputation,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and there were enough venal dons to take his blood diamonds.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

He and his proxies paid for memorials,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

portraits,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and statues for him on a Stalinist scale.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Many contemporaries thus saw the 1911 new buildings of Oriel,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

with roads above kings and bishops,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

snaring across at the University Church as vulgar,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

if not idolatrous,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

with Evelyn Waugh in 1930 urging it be dynamited.

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

So what we have there on the high street as a statue is a piece of PR in stone,

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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

an expression of a minority party interest in dubious

12:50

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

taste which was foisted onto 20th century Oxford.

12:53

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

But the case for Rhodes Falling is not about the past but the present.

12:57

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Look at your classrooms,

12:59

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

common rooms,

13:00

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

curricula.

13:01

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Talk to a representative group of people of colour,

13:04

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

if you can even find one in your college,

13:07

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

about their experiences here.

13:09

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Oxford, with its best liberal intentions,

13:11

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

remains color -coded white.

13:14

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And the complacency with which Oxford and Britain face

13:18

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

their racial and colonial pasts is quite central to this.

13:22

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

We have a right and a duty to change Oxford.

13:25

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Every country in Europe other than Britain,

13:27

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

not just Germany,

13:28

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

not just Russia,

13:29

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

but France and Spain and Italy and Portugal,

13:32

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

have removed statues and renamed streets in order to free the future

13:36

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

from symbolic slavery to past evils.

13:39

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Oriel's road similarly belongs,

13:41

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

behind a museum glass rather than the high.

13:43

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

There is a poetic sweetness that the Rhodes Scholarships,

13:47

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

through which Rhodes intended to diffuse the despotic culture of British imperialism to the world,

13:51

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

has instead become the spur for Oxford and Britain to question that past

13:55

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and to begin to free themselves towards the future.

13:57

S… Speaker 3 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Thank you

14:14

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

very much for that, Professor.

14:15

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I now turn to Professor William Beinart for your opening statement.

14:17

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Thank you.

14:18

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I welcome the debate initiated by Rhodes Must Fall.

14:23

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

but I consider the statue also as a secondary issue.

14:27

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

For me,

14:28

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the central question is,

14:30

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

how can we deal with the legacy of Rhodes in the academic sphere?

14:34

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Oxford has benefited enormously for over a century

14:38

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

from the Rhodes Trust,

14:40

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

as well as other money generated by mining

14:44

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

magnets, largely in Southern Africa.

14:47

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And this debate for me is about the long -term relationship

14:51

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

created.

14:52

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I believe the university as a whole should consider the responsibilities

14:56

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

that arise from accepting such donors.

15:00

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I want to suggest a route that I think can find wide support and

15:05

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

looks to the future.

15:06

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Oxford has in fact undergone huge changes in recent decades

15:10

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and at the postgraduate level trains a large number of African

15:14

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

students and students with expertise on Africa and

15:19

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

two centres have been established.

15:20

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

But decision making is very devolved and in some ways that's our

15:24

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

genius but we don't think across the institution.

15:27

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I think we do have to do that now.

15:29

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

The trust has been used as a general fund.

15:32

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

It's globalised the studentships.

15:35

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

They have put money into the Mandela Road scholarships in Southern Africa,

15:39

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

but I think that greater priority needs to be given in

15:44

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the university to students,

15:45

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

scholarships for students from Africa,

15:47

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and to ensuring that Oxford is a leading centre for

15:51

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the study of Southern Africa and Africa in the world,

15:55

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

certainly in Britain.

15:56

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Oriel and other colleges who've directly

16:00

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

benefited over the years from the trust money should consider

16:04

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

scholarships.

16:05

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

The future of the Rhodes Chair of Race Relations,

16:08

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

which I held,

16:09

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

now retired,

16:10

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

should be made more certainly a Chair of African Studies.

16:14

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And this can be an exciting moment for syllabus revision,

16:18

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

as history is recently doing.

16:21

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I suggest we have a summit on Africa,

16:24

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

as it was a few years back on China Studies.

16:29

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

With respect to the statue,

16:30

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I recognise the students' strategic acumen in choosing this

16:34

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

symbolic battleground.

16:35

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

They probably wouldn't have attracted the same attention if they wanted to

16:40

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

revise the English syllabus.

16:41

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And I believe that the priority,

16:45

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

nevertheless,

16:46

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

is not what should fall.

16:48

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

It's rather what might rise,

16:51

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the positive and concrete academic developments that could be furthered

16:56

S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

by this debate.

17:08

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Thank you, Professor,

17:09

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

for your opening statement.

17:10

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I now turn to Professor Nigel Biggar for your opening statement.

17:13

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

First of all,

17:16

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

if we insist on our heroes being pure,

17:18

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

we aren't going to have any.

17:20

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Last year,

17:23

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the Shino Mahatma Gandhi's halo came off when we learned of his views that Indians were culturally

17:27

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

superior to black Africans.

17:28

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Does that mean we should forget his remarkable achievements?

17:32

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I don't think so.

17:34

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Second.

17:37

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Claims that Rhodes was South Africa's Hitler and carried out genocide

17:41

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

lack any historical foundation.

17:44

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Third,

17:48

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Rhodes was not racist.

17:49

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

He didn't hold black Africans in general contempt.

17:53

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

He did not view them as biologically inferior and incapable of cultural

17:57

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

development.

17:58

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

In 1899,

17:59

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

he defended the right of blacks to vote.

18:01

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

He stipulated that his scholarships be awarded regardless of race.

18:06

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And the first Rhodes scholarship was awarded to an African -American.

18:10

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

within five years of his death.

18:11

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Fourth,

18:15

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

while often ruthless in his choice of means,

18:19

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Rhodes was a prodigious entrepreneur who used his wealth for public

18:23

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

purposes.

18:24

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Unlike some of South Africa's current rulers,

18:27

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

he didn't use it to feather his own nest,

18:30

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

rather to develop the region's economy and

18:34

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

to build a worldwide community of public leaders through his scholarship legacy.

18:38

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Fifth,

18:41

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

if Rhodes must fall,

18:43

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

so must Churchill.

18:45

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

whose views on empire and race were much the same.

18:47

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And so probably must Abraham Lincoln.

18:50

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

While Lincoln liberated African -American slaves,

18:53

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

he doubted they could be integrated into a white society and favored

18:57

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

their separate development,

18:58

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

their segregation,

19:00

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

or apartheid,

19:01

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

if you will, in an African colony.

19:03

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Finally,

19:06

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

in 2010,

19:08

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the ANC government in KwaZulu -Natal,

19:10

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

in South Africa,

19:11

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

named a new airport after King Shaka.

19:15

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Shaka was responsible for forging a highly militaristic Zillow Empire in the early

19:19

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

1800s,

19:20

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

for waging terroristic and genocidal wars,

19:23

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

not least in 1826,

19:24

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and for a share of the deaths of between one and two million black Africans.

19:29

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

If Shaka gets to stand in Durban,

19:32

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Rhodes,

19:33

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

whose sins pale by comparison,

19:35

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

should be left standing in Oxford.

19:36

S… Speaker 3 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Thank

19:54

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

you very much, Professor,

19:55

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

for your opening statement.

19:56

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I now turn finally to Sophia Cannon for your opening statement.

20:00

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

There is a clear moral,

20:03

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

economic and indeed historical distinction

20:07

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

between the statue which is on your high street and

20:13

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

shall we say the objet dar that found

20:18

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

its way briefly onto eBay,

20:22

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Sir Chas,

20:24

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

chains from slavery.

20:29

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

uniforms from the Holocaust or

20:34

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

recently the debate that has continued in the States

20:38

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

on the Confederate flag.

20:41

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And it's very different,

20:43

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

is it not, when you have people peddling

20:48

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

currency based upon shame,

20:51

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

racism and indeed misery.

20:59

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

The statue outside,

21:02

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I say,

21:04

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

wasn't erected.

21:07

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

like we see on the continent,

21:08

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

in a cult of personality.

21:11

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

We don't do that here.

21:14

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

In Britain,

21:18

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

our statues are welded to our history,

21:22

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

whether we like it or not.

21:24

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Now,

21:26

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

it's no accident that I'm here on

21:30

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

this side.

21:31

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And indeed,

21:32

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

it's no accident that I'm here with an

21:36

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

English name,

21:37

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

both front and back.

21:41

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

because the African diaspora reaches

21:45

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

far and wide.

21:47

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And in the Caribbean,

21:49

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

our history is genetic.

21:53

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

We have ginger -haired,

21:57

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

green -eyed,

21:58

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

freckled,

21:58

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

black children,

22:00

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

as do I,

22:01

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and my sister,

22:03

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

my aunts.

22:04

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

What is crucial to know is

22:08

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

that the critical nucleus of minds that

22:13

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

we have on the right

22:17

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

In 50 years time their statues should be

22:21

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

here and their legacy should be as great

22:25

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

because the problems that the African diaspora face need

22:30

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

to be challenged and indeed the only way it

22:34

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

can be done today is through the academic mind.

22:38

S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Roads must not fall today.

22:55

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Sophia, thank you very much for your opening statement.

22:57

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

We'll now move on to,

22:59

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

as I said,

22:59

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

a few minutes of questions from me as a follow -up,

23:02

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

before moving to the audience for questions from you.

23:05

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Yasmin,

23:07

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I just wanted to pick up on one thing that you said.

23:10

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

You said this is the Rosemars Hall movement,

23:12

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

and people who are in support of the movement is much broader than just

23:16

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

black minority ethnic people.

23:21

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And that may well be true.

23:22

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

The recent Chairwell survey by Chairwell's

23:26

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

newspaper in Oxford said that

23:30

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

54 % of those surveyed did not want the statue to

23:35

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

come down.

23:35

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

If this is a view that is shared by the majority of students at the university,

23:39

S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

should we respect that democratic decision and not take the statue down?

23:43

S… Speaker 3 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

So,

23:45

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

you know, I've actually read about that survey and I had thought of quoting it in what I was saying

23:49

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

in my opening statement.

23:51

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

At the end of the day,

23:52

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

majorities are always relative.

23:53

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And I would probably ask a counter question and say,

23:56

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

would you want to keep a statue that 46 % of the students

24:00

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

within the entire university have a problem with?

24:02

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Because that's nearly half of the entire student body and this is a big university.

24:06

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

So I don't think that you can just ignore that huge amount of students

24:10

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

that actually said that they don't find it right to maintain the statue where it is.

24:15

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And I think what we also need to consider here is that removing

24:19

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the statue can take completely different shapes and formats.

24:22

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

There's all kinds of different options from completely taking the

24:26

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

statue down and destroying it to moving it into a museum.

24:28

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

We have enough museums in Oxford.

24:30

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And that would probably be a good compromise because the ones that said that they don't want the

24:34

S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

statue to be removed can go to the museum.

24:43

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I would very much like to respond to Mr.

24:45

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Bigger.

24:46

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I'm sure that if Mr.

24:47

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Bigger heard me trying to explain to you the doctrine of transubstantiation,

24:51

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

the hearers would stand on the back of his neck at the appalling

24:55

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

oversimplifications and errors which I'd be making.

24:58

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

And I have to say that as a professor...

25:00

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I'm simply appalled to hear Mr.

25:03

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Biggers speak to you in precisely these terms on the basis of God

25:07

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

knows what reading he happens to have done last night or the night

25:11

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

before.

25:11

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

I mean the oversimplifications are just,

25:14

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

where does one begin?

25:15

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

That the Rhodes Scholarship was open to all races.

25:18

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

By all races Rhodes meant Africana or English in South Africa.

25:22

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

That was quite clear.

25:25

S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)

Rhodes, in fact,

Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union

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