Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union

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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Good evening everyone and welcome to the Oxford Union for the first event of 2016.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Tonight we are asking ourselves the most topical of questions both
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
within Oxford and without.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Must.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Roads.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Four.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
We have an expert panel here tonight and you can find more information
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
on the speakers in the programmes on your seats.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Working from my right to my left,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
we have Tokozo Kwabe,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Yasmin Kumi,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Atenangamso Nkoko,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Professor Richard Drayton,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Professor William Beinart,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Professor Nigel Bigar and Sophia Cannon.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
The format for the discussion will be as follows.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Each speaker on the panel will have a maximum of two minutes
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and 30 seconds for their opening statement.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I will ring the bell once at two minutes and twice at two
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
minutes 30.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I will then ask follow -up questions to prompt a general discussion among
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the panelists on the points that are raised.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
This will be followed by as many questions as possible from the audience.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Please wait to be recognised by me and also for the microphone to be handed to
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
you by Noah before asking your question.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
After the general discussion,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
each speaker will have a maximum of two minutes for their closing statement.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I will ring the bell once at 1 minute 30 seconds and twice
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
at 2 minutes.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
All members will then vote with their feet on the question,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
must Rhodes fall?
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
With those saying yes,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
walking out the door,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
marked eyes,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and those saying no,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
walking out the door,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
marked nose.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
If you are in the gallery,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
you will also be allowed to vote,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and will be instructed as you walk down the stairs as to where you
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
need to walk in order to indicate your decision.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
With that,
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I look to Nkozo Kwabe for your opening statement.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Thank you,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Stuart.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Thank you,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
thank you very much.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Stuart,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
before just getting into my opening statement I
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
would like to dispose of a particular matter which
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I think is important and that is that the space that we are in
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and the space that we are required to hold this debate is not neutral.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
This space last year declared itself institutionally
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
racist and we think that the fact that a
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
debate about
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
colonial legacy and about institutional racism is taking place in a space that
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
is in itself institutionally racist is a problematic that we must engage
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
as we continue this debate.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
But I do want to say that I do want to urge you as
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
we debate this tonight to pay attention to not
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
only the polarized statue debate that is going on
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and that has been presented in the media as our only
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
demand or our only mission as Roads Must Fall.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
We have a broad program that
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we are advocating for at Oxford and
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
that interrogates how patents of exclusion function
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
at Oxford.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
We are interrogating the exclusion of black and minority ethnic
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
voices in the curriculum,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
we are interrogating the ways in which Oxford remains
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
a space that is exclusive to
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
black professors,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
for example.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
We don't think that an Oxford University that purports to be inclusive in the
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
21st century
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
can only have one full -time black professor.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
We think there's something deplorable about that.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And we are raising these issues using the statue as an emblem
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
under which we are sparking the debate.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
We are also talking about...
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Other things relating to the composition of the student body we find it
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
deplorable that there are only 24 black British
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
students that have been accepted for last year into
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the undergraduate student body simply because Oxford again
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
only selects its students
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
from particular elite private schools and some public schools and
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
we think there is a statement to be made about how
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
structures of exclusion persist at Oxford and that
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
is what I would urge you to engage going forward.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
The broad goals of the movement that we have articulated in
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the Democratic General Assemblies that we've held at Oxford and
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
yes it's not just about the statue and I'm hoping for
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
substantive engagement tonight on the broad issues that
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
we are raising.
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S… Speaker 3 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Thank
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
you very much Takozo.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I now turn to Yasmin Kumi for your opening statement.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Thank you.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I'm going to remain seated because it's much more comfortable now that we started the trend.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
What I want to strongly highlight tonight is three points.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
First,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
it's personally clear to me that the necessity to remove the statue is inevitable.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Secondly, I think,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
equally to what Tokozo said,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
that the debate tonight should be about a broader issue,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
which is institutional racism and the decolonization of education within Oxford,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
a topic that we urgently need to talk about.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
The third point I'm going to make is that Roads Must Fall is
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
not a movement of a minority of black students.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
It's actually a movement across skin color that demands all of us to engage,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and I hope that each and every single person of you in this room is going to engage with it tonight.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Now, why do I think that the statute debate is actually a no -brainer for me?
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I think that because we're asking the question whether roads must fall.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
When we say must,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
we actually call upon conventions within our society that allow us to refer to something
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
as an obligation,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
that allow us to say whether something is wrong or whether something is right.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
To me, it's evident that a leader who led the ideology of the century -long supremacy
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
of the Anglo -Saxon race,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
such as Rhodes,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
does not deserve the glorification through an elevated statue at Oxford University,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
despite the fact that he has rendered money into scholarships.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
As a half -German,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I can assure you that we do not have a single statue of Hitler in our country,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
despite the money he invested into infrastructural systems we are benefiting from until date.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Yes,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I'm comparing Rhodes and Hitler,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
not because I have counted the lives they have taken,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
but because the danger
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
of their crimes light in their racist ideologies.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Now,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
how does the Africa society that I'm speaking for tonight view this debate?
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
You know,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
to be honest, we have quite a strong representation of students from West Africa in the Africa society.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Quite a few of them are not active members of Roads Must Fall at Oxford.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Roads' footprint mainly was in southern Africa.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
The identification with Roads as an image is not as
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
straightforward for non -southern African students.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
But if you ask them whether they think that there's a problem about colonized education
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
in Oxford or a problem with institutional racism in Oxford,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
they would all have their stories to share.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Which is why our members voted last term that 90 % of them are
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
supportive of collaborating with votes must fall on selected issues.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
So here I'm standing saying that I think what has to fall
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the most is institutional racism in Oxford and I'm happy to give more examples about that later
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
in our debate.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
What I would like to say at last is
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
what I experienced about the movement and why I'm saying it's not a black movement.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
At the protest in Michaelmas Term in front of Oriel College,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
we had more white participants than black participants.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
A minority cannot free itself from being suppressed in
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
one or the other way in an education institution like Oxford.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
It demands that the majority is equally engaging,
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
which is why I'm sitting here tonight to engage with you.
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S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Thank you.
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S… Speaker 3 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Thank
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
you very much for that, Yasmin.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I now turn to Asana Ngamso Ngopo for your opening statement.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Thank you.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
It's true that the statue is,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
for us as Rosemars Fall,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
emblematic of something that's a lot more problematic and perhaps
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
more damning to the experience of black and minority students who
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
are in this environment.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
But the statue itself is,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
as a result,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
very important for us to interrogate and for us to do a way
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
up, considering how it is that statues function in
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
society.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
We think that statues function to reflect the ways in which institutions,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
societies imagine themselves.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And being at that Oxford University has all of these structural problems
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
we put before you,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
we think that them having a statue of Cecil John Rhodes overlook
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
us.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
on High Street at the entrance of Oriel College on a pedestal
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
is very problematic,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
considering that when Oxford broadcasts itself to the world,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
it says it is open,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
it is inclusive,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
it is a leading 21st century global institution.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
We think then what Max Price says at the removal of the Rhodes
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
statue at UCT in Cape Town is really important,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
that the position of Rhodes statue on UCT campus
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
said something about the values of that university.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
So this ought to be a debate about,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
at least insofar as the statue is concerned,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the ways in which Oxford University wants to portray itself and
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the ways in which it imagines itself.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Putting a plaque next to it...
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
putting a sign under it is very difficult to
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
engage when that statue stands.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
In living colour,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
life -size above us all on High Street.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Because in societies,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
statues are to commemorate,
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
are to glorify those people whose ideas and
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
whose actions have given us a way through which to
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
travel history as we imagine ourselves to be.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
So the way up for Oxford University in terms of keeping the statue there or
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
removing the statue is about saying how the university
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
wants to imagine itself and the ways in which its configuration
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
affects the lives of those people affected by empire
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
all throughout the Global South.
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
We urge you in this debate to think very carefully about what it is that
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the university has to lose when it removes that statue and replaces
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S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
it with someone or something that we can all be proud of.
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S… Speaker 3 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Thank you.
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S… Speaker 3 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Thank
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
you very much for that.
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S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I now turn to Professor Richard Droitin for your opening statement.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I admire Rhodes.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I fully confess it.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And when his time comes,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I shall buy a piece of the rope for a keepsake.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
So said Mark Twain.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Rhodes' contemporaries thought him at best a scoundrel,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
stock manipulator,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
briber,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
bully, and at worst a criminal.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Leckie suggested he should be jailed.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Rhodes Chesterton wrote,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
invoked slaughter,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
violated justice,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and ruined republics.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
In 1899,
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almost 100,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
including the master of Balliol,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
both proctors,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the librarian of Bodley,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and the cream of intellectual Oxford,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
including Mr.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Biggers' predecessor and the chair of theology,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
signed a memorial against Rhodes receiving an honorary degree.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Contrary to what you've heard,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the best spirits of his age held Rhodes in a contempt equal
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
to our own.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
But these voices were written out of history by the
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
free speech of Rhodes' money.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Even more silenced were the tens of thousands of
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
African victims of his regime.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Rhodes did not give to Oxford.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
He sought to buy at Seoul.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
He sought to launder his reputation,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and there were enough venal dons to take his blood diamonds.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
He and his proxies paid for memorials,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
portraits,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and statues for him on a Stalinist scale.
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Many contemporaries thus saw the 1911 new buildings of Oriel,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
with roads above kings and bishops,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
snaring across at the University Church as vulgar,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
if not idolatrous,
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S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
with Evelyn Waugh in 1930 urging it be dynamited.
12:42
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
So what we have there on the high street as a statue is a piece of PR in stone,
12:46
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
an expression of a minority party interest in dubious
12:50
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
taste which was foisted onto 20th century Oxford.
12:53
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
But the case for Rhodes Falling is not about the past but the present.
12:57
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Look at your classrooms,
12:59
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
common rooms,
13:00
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
curricula.
13:01
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Talk to a representative group of people of colour,
13:04
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
if you can even find one in your college,
13:07
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
about their experiences here.
13:09
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Oxford, with its best liberal intentions,
13:11
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
remains color -coded white.
13:14
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And the complacency with which Oxford and Britain face
13:18
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
their racial and colonial pasts is quite central to this.
13:22
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
We have a right and a duty to change Oxford.
13:25
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Every country in Europe other than Britain,
13:27
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
not just Germany,
13:28
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
not just Russia,
13:29
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
but France and Spain and Italy and Portugal,
13:32
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
have removed statues and renamed streets in order to free the future
13:36
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
from symbolic slavery to past evils.
13:39
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Oriel's road similarly belongs,
13:41
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
behind a museum glass rather than the high.
13:43
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
There is a poetic sweetness that the Rhodes Scholarships,
13:47
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
through which Rhodes intended to diffuse the despotic culture of British imperialism to the world,
13:51
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
has instead become the spur for Oxford and Britain to question that past
13:55
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and to begin to free themselves towards the future.
13:57
S… Speaker 3 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Thank you
14:14
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
very much for that, Professor.
14:15
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I now turn to Professor William Beinart for your opening statement.
14:17
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Thank you.
14:18
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I welcome the debate initiated by Rhodes Must Fall.
14:23
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
but I consider the statue also as a secondary issue.
14:27
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
For me,
14:28
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the central question is,
14:30
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
how can we deal with the legacy of Rhodes in the academic sphere?
14:34
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Oxford has benefited enormously for over a century
14:38
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
from the Rhodes Trust,
14:40
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
as well as other money generated by mining
14:44
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
magnets, largely in Southern Africa.
14:47
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And this debate for me is about the long -term relationship
14:51
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
created.
14:52
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I believe the university as a whole should consider the responsibilities
14:56
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
that arise from accepting such donors.
15:00
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I want to suggest a route that I think can find wide support and
15:05
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
looks to the future.
15:06
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Oxford has in fact undergone huge changes in recent decades
15:10
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and at the postgraduate level trains a large number of African
15:14
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
students and students with expertise on Africa and
15:19
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
two centres have been established.
15:20
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
But decision making is very devolved and in some ways that's our
15:24
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
genius but we don't think across the institution.
15:27
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I think we do have to do that now.
15:29
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
The trust has been used as a general fund.
15:32
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
It's globalised the studentships.
15:35
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
They have put money into the Mandela Road scholarships in Southern Africa,
15:39
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
but I think that greater priority needs to be given in
15:44
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the university to students,
15:45
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
scholarships for students from Africa,
15:47
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and to ensuring that Oxford is a leading centre for
15:51
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the study of Southern Africa and Africa in the world,
15:55
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
certainly in Britain.
15:56
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Oriel and other colleges who've directly
16:00
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
benefited over the years from the trust money should consider
16:04
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
scholarships.
16:05
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
The future of the Rhodes Chair of Race Relations,
16:08
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
which I held,
16:09
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
now retired,
16:10
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
should be made more certainly a Chair of African Studies.
16:14
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And this can be an exciting moment for syllabus revision,
16:18
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
as history is recently doing.
16:21
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I suggest we have a summit on Africa,
16:24
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
as it was a few years back on China Studies.
16:29
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
With respect to the statue,
16:30
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I recognise the students' strategic acumen in choosing this
16:34
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
symbolic battleground.
16:35
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
They probably wouldn't have attracted the same attention if they wanted to
16:40
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
revise the English syllabus.
16:41
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And I believe that the priority,
16:45
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
nevertheless,
16:46
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
is not what should fall.
16:48
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
It's rather what might rise,
16:51
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the positive and concrete academic developments that could be furthered
16:56
S… Speaker 6 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
by this debate.
17:08
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Thank you, Professor,
17:09
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
for your opening statement.
17:10
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I now turn to Professor Nigel Biggar for your opening statement.
17:13
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
First of all,
17:16
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
if we insist on our heroes being pure,
17:18
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
we aren't going to have any.
17:20
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Last year,
17:23
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the Shino Mahatma Gandhi's halo came off when we learned of his views that Indians were culturally
17:27
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
superior to black Africans.
17:28
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Does that mean we should forget his remarkable achievements?
17:32
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I don't think so.
17:34
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Second.
17:37
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Claims that Rhodes was South Africa's Hitler and carried out genocide
17:41
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
lack any historical foundation.
17:44
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Third,
17:48
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Rhodes was not racist.
17:49
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
He didn't hold black Africans in general contempt.
17:53
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
He did not view them as biologically inferior and incapable of cultural
17:57
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
development.
17:58
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
In 1899,
17:59
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
he defended the right of blacks to vote.
18:01
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
He stipulated that his scholarships be awarded regardless of race.
18:06
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And the first Rhodes scholarship was awarded to an African -American.
18:10
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
within five years of his death.
18:11
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Fourth,
18:15
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
while often ruthless in his choice of means,
18:19
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Rhodes was a prodigious entrepreneur who used his wealth for public
18:23
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
purposes.
18:24
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Unlike some of South Africa's current rulers,
18:27
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
he didn't use it to feather his own nest,
18:30
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
rather to develop the region's economy and
18:34
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
to build a worldwide community of public leaders through his scholarship legacy.
18:38
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Fifth,
18:41
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
if Rhodes must fall,
18:43
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
so must Churchill.
18:45
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
whose views on empire and race were much the same.
18:47
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And so probably must Abraham Lincoln.
18:50
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
While Lincoln liberated African -American slaves,
18:53
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
he doubted they could be integrated into a white society and favored
18:57
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
their separate development,
18:58
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
their segregation,
19:00
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
or apartheid,
19:01
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
if you will, in an African colony.
19:03
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Finally,
19:06
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
in 2010,
19:08
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the ANC government in KwaZulu -Natal,
19:10
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
in South Africa,
19:11
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
named a new airport after King Shaka.
19:15
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Shaka was responsible for forging a highly militaristic Zillow Empire in the early
19:19
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
1800s,
19:20
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
for waging terroristic and genocidal wars,
19:23
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
not least in 1826,
19:24
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and for a share of the deaths of between one and two million black Africans.
19:29
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
If Shaka gets to stand in Durban,
19:32
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Rhodes,
19:33
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
whose sins pale by comparison,
19:35
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
should be left standing in Oxford.
19:36
S… Speaker 3 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Thank
19:54
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
you very much, Professor,
19:55
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
for your opening statement.
19:56
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I now turn finally to Sophia Cannon for your opening statement.
20:00
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
There is a clear moral,
20:03
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
economic and indeed historical distinction
20:07
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
between the statue which is on your high street and
20:13
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
shall we say the objet dar that found
20:18
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
its way briefly onto eBay,
20:22
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Sir Chas,
20:24
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
chains from slavery.
20:29
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
uniforms from the Holocaust or
20:34
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
recently the debate that has continued in the States
20:38
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
on the Confederate flag.
20:41
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And it's very different,
20:43
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
is it not, when you have people peddling
20:48
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
currency based upon shame,
20:51
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
racism and indeed misery.
20:59
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
The statue outside,
21:02
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I say,
21:04
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
wasn't erected.
21:07
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
like we see on the continent,
21:08
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
in a cult of personality.
21:11
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
We don't do that here.
21:14
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
In Britain,
21:18
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
our statues are welded to our history,
21:22
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
whether we like it or not.
21:24
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Now,
21:26
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
it's no accident that I'm here on
21:30
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
this side.
21:31
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And indeed,
21:32
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
it's no accident that I'm here with an
21:36
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
English name,
21:37
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
both front and back.
21:41
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
because the African diaspora reaches
21:45
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
far and wide.
21:47
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And in the Caribbean,
21:49
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
our history is genetic.
21:53
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
We have ginger -haired,
21:57
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
green -eyed,
21:58
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
freckled,
21:58
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
black children,
22:00
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
as do I,
22:01
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and my sister,
22:03
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
my aunts.
22:04
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
What is crucial to know is
22:08
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
that the critical nucleus of minds that
22:13
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
we have on the right
22:17
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
In 50 years time their statues should be
22:21
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
here and their legacy should be as great
22:25
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
because the problems that the African diaspora face need
22:30
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
to be challenged and indeed the only way it
22:34
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
can be done today is through the academic mind.
22:38
S… Speaker 2 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Roads must not fall today.
22:55
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Sophia, thank you very much for your opening statement.
22:57
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
We'll now move on to,
22:59
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
as I said,
22:59
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
a few minutes of questions from me as a follow -up,
23:02
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
before moving to the audience for questions from you.
23:05
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Yasmin,
23:07
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I just wanted to pick up on one thing that you said.
23:10
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
You said this is the Rosemars Hall movement,
23:12
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
and people who are in support of the movement is much broader than just
23:16
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
black minority ethnic people.
23:21
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And that may well be true.
23:22
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
The recent Chairwell survey by Chairwell's
23:26
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
newspaper in Oxford said that
23:30
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
54 % of those surveyed did not want the statue to
23:35
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
come down.
23:35
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
If this is a view that is shared by the majority of students at the university,
23:39
S… Speaker 1 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
should we respect that democratic decision and not take the statue down?
23:43
S… Speaker 3 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
So,
23:45
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
you know, I've actually read about that survey and I had thought of quoting it in what I was saying
23:49
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
in my opening statement.
23:51
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
At the end of the day,
23:52
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
majorities are always relative.
23:53
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And I would probably ask a counter question and say,
23:56
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
would you want to keep a statue that 46 % of the students
24:00
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
within the entire university have a problem with?
24:02
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Because that's nearly half of the entire student body and this is a big university.
24:06
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
So I don't think that you can just ignore that huge amount of students
24:10
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
that actually said that they don't find it right to maintain the statue where it is.
24:15
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And I think what we also need to consider here is that removing
24:19
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the statue can take completely different shapes and formats.
24:22
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
There's all kinds of different options from completely taking the
24:26
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
statue down and destroying it to moving it into a museum.
24:28
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
We have enough museums in Oxford.
24:30
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And that would probably be a good compromise because the ones that said that they don't want the
24:34
S… Speaker 4 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
statue to be removed can go to the museum.
24:43
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I would very much like to respond to Mr.
24:45
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Bigger.
24:46
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I'm sure that if Mr.
24:47
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Bigger heard me trying to explain to you the doctrine of transubstantiation,
24:51
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
the hearers would stand on the back of his neck at the appalling
24:55
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
oversimplifications and errors which I'd be making.
24:58
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
And I have to say that as a professor...
25:00
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I'm simply appalled to hear Mr.
25:03
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Biggers speak to you in precisely these terms on the basis of God
25:07
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
knows what reading he happens to have done last night or the night
25:11
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
before.
25:11
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
I mean the oversimplifications are just,
25:14
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
where does one begin?
25:15
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
That the Rhodes Scholarship was open to all races.
25:18
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
By all races Rhodes meant Africana or English in South Africa.
25:22
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
That was quite clear.
25:25
S… Speaker 5 (Must Rhodes Fall Full Debate Oxford Union)
Rhodes, in fact,

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