Session 2 Audio only

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We all have a deep desire for a close connection with another person.

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This is one of our most fundamental human needs.

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But a close connection in marriage will only be achieved where there's

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good communication.

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Nicky and I had been dating for about five months when he went away traveling,

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backpacking in Africa while I had to stay in the UK and finish

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my school exams.

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And this was in the days well before mobile phones and the internet.

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So we had to write letters to each other all through that

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time to stay connected.

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And even though we were apart for six months,

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it was an incredibly important part of our growing closer.

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We learnt so much about each other as we shared our innermost thoughts,

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our ideas,

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our dreams and especially our feelings in those letters.

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The strange thing was when we were both back in the same country but

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in different cities,

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Scylla was in London,

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I was at university in another city,

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we really struggled in our communication as we had to rely

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on public phones.

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So I was sharing a house with three other girls and the phone was right

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at the bottom of the stairs.

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And there was this steady traffic of people going up and down,

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overhearing everything I said every time I rang Nicky.

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And I knew Nicky was longing to hear me say all kinds

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of intimate things,

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like I loved him,

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I was missing him.

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But that would have been far too embarrassing to say out loud with everybody

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going up and down.

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I,

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meanwhile, was speaking from a public phone box in the street.

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And I was having to shove money into the box with his...

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queue of other students forming outside and occasionally tapping their money

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on the glass if they thought that I was going on too long,

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which wasn't ideal while I was trying to have this romantic

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conversation with Scylla,

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telling her how much I loved her and only getting quite perfunctory

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answers from her.

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So we regularly ended up those conversations with

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either one or both of us feeling misunderstood,

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upset and disconnected.

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And learning to communicate effectively is something Nikki and I

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have had to learn ourselves and go on learning throughout our

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marriage in order to stay closely connected.

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Close connection in marriage has a lot to do with the level

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at which we communicate with each other.

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There are broadly three levels.

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Level one communication is about facts,

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passing on information at a superficial level,

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such as it's raining,

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the train's late.

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We've gone into overdraft.

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That creates a weak connection.

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Level two is a deeper level of communication and stronger connection

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and represents sharing our ideas,

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our opinions.

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For example,

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I think the government should do more to protect the environment.

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Or I think you should look for a better paid job.

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Or I think we should spend time at home with the children this weekend instead of

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going away.

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Level three is the deepest level of communication.

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This is around our emotions,

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our feelings.

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When we say,

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I felt hurt by what your mother said yesterday.

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Or,

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it meant so much to me when you spent time listening to me about that

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difficult time at work.

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Or,

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I'm feeling frightened that we're not going to be able to pay off our debt.

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Or,

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I need you to tell me that I'm doing okay.

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And that's when we're talking about what's going on inside us,

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when we're talking about our deepest needs.

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And that takes a degree of vulnerability and trust.

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We don't communicate at that level with just anyone.

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But it's essential.

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We communicate like this with our partner because that's how we

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build good connection and deep intimacy.

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Of course,

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communication is two -way.

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Effective communication is always dynamic.

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It involves talking and listening.

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It requires a response from the other person.

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There's an ongoing flow and interchange.

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And in marriage,

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our aim has to be to listen twice as much as we talk.

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And communication that's deep and personal is multi

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-layered.

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It's not just about words.

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It involves the warmth of our voice.

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It involves our gestures.

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It involves how and when we touch each other.

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For example,

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putting an arm around our partner when they're upset.

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And it involves our body language.

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Facing our partner when they're telling us something important and looking them

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in the eye, show we're interested in and listening to what they're saying.

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When we combine this responsive body language,

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an engaging tone of voice,

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and talking about our thoughts and feelings,

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we create deep connection with our partner.

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We all have that longing deep inside us to be known by another

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person, to be heard and understood.

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But that's not automatic in a marriage.

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An article in a Sunday newspaper described the breakup of a celebrity marriage.

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And it quoted the husband as saying,

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We'd never really talked.

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I heard my wife telling a complete stranger about feelings I

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never knew existed,

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and I heard myself doing the same.

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We could only communicate through a stranger.

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Two people can be living in the same house,

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sleeping in the same bed,

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yet if they don't communicate at the level of their feelings,

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they can be like strangers towards each other.

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Every couple has to work out how to stay connected on a daily

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basis in whatever way works for them.

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Whether that's through talking as they travel to work together,

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communicating by text,

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talking on the phone during the day,

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or catching up when they get home in the evening.

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Now,

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we're not saying this always has to be deep emotional stuff.

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And for some people,

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if they know that whenever their partner wants to talk,

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it's going to be intense,

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they'll avoid conversation.

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But unless we tell each other what's going on in our lives and what's

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uppermost in our minds,

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we can so quickly drift apart.

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It's only when another person understands us that they're really

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with us.

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Effective communication draws us together at an emotional level.

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We want you to turn in your journal to the first conversation,

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a significant memory.

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Spend one minute telling your partner about a happy or some other special

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memory, something that happened to you before you met each other.

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And as you're talking,

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be sure to express what you felt as you recall this memory.

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Don't just describe the facts.

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Then your partner should say back what they've just heard.

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And not just the information in a factual way,

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but reflecting the feelings that they've heard to show they've understood why

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it was so special for you.

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Then swap roles.

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We want to look now at the importance of talking in particular.

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I wonder if you've ever stopped to consider what you talk about most

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of the time.

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When Stella and I are busy and under pressure,

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we find we can easily slip into talking only about the mundane,

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practical details of life.

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For example, who needs the car that day or what time we need to

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leave to get somewhere or what shopping we need.

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And that's why date night is so important.

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This quality time that we've scheduled in when we can talk at a

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deeper level.

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And I only really feel connected to Nicky when we've had time

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to share our feelings with each other.

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But some of you may be like me and find talking about feelings

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doesn't come naturally to you.

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And that could be for a variety of reasons.

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For some people,

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their culture doesn't encourage them to talk about their own individual needs

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and longings.

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Or perhaps they never learned to talk about their opinions and feelings

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as they were growing up.

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Or they may have been taught to hide them.

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We've created a diagram that lists some other reasons why people

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find it difficult to express their feelings.

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Some think,

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I don't want to disturb the peace by saying what I really feel.

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Or they may think it's just too complicated or I may be misunderstood.

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Being on this course is about being in a safe

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place, a good place to overcome these barriers and to practice

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expressing your thoughts and feelings to your partner.

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But some people don't just find it difficult to express their feelings.

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They also find it hard to recognize what they're feeling in the first place.

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And if that's you,

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we want to encourage you that change is possible.

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In one of the continuing conversations following this session in your journal,

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we've created an exercise for those who find it hard to identify their

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emotions.

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It's designed to help you recognize what you're feeling at

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different times and in different situations throughout the day.

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It will take courage to begin to articulate these feelings

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to your partner if you're not used to communicating at this level.

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But we know many people who've changed dramatically and marriages

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that have become much closer as they've persisted.

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We have some friends called Nick and Allison who 25 years ago

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separated and whose story is just that.

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I remember it was just so easy for us to get into

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this place where we were saying a lot but not really

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communicating.

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I think I began to confide in my sisters and close

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friends rather than in my husband.

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This began subtly at first to drive a wedge

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between us.

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Yeah, our marriage collapsed because we failed to share our real feelings with one another.

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We came pretty much as close to divorce as it's possible to get.

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Yeah.

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And if you asked us what went wrong,

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I think we'd both have agreed it was our failure to communicate effectively

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with each other.

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Yeah,

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it's a long story.

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But after a pretty amazing turn of events,

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things turn around and we made our minds up to give our marriage another

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chance.

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And today we are back together with,

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I think,

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a deeper understanding of what it takes to stay connected.

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When we got back together...

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I resolved not to have a thought life.

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which was secret from Nick.

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In the past,

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I used to dwell on the negative aspects of our relationship but rarely

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voiced my feelings.

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It was like I was setting up a case against him without allowing

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him to defend himself.

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We've become much better at recognizing when one of us is

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like brooding over something and we persistently ask questions to get

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things out into the open.

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I tend to have more dramatic mood swings than Nick and if I'm rather low I

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find conversation difficult because I tend to shut down emotionally.

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And we have to work much harder during these times to keep

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real communication going.

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Nick said to us,

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all current wisdom on this subject stresses the importance of

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quality time being carved out of hectic schedules.

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But this,

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in my experience,

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only marks out the space.

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Effective communication must mean revealing all parts of our lives.

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In my case,

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the parts that I'm well practiced at keeping hidden.

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For me,

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at least, it requires more than time.

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It requires courage.

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So if you're married to someone who struggles to verbalize their

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feelings, they're likely to feel exposed and vulnerable when they first

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start to do so.

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So be sure to help them to feel safe,

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to open up.

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They need to know that you're not going to get angry and reject or blame them for what

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they reveal.

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Asking questions encourages them to say

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what they're feeling inside.

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For this next conversation,

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please take a few minutes to look together at the diagram in your journal,

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Barriers to Talking,

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and tell each other if any of those barriers apply to you.

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All those thoughts in the diagram apply to

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me at different moments,

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and it takes courage for me to tell Scylla what I'm feeling

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inside.

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For effective communication,

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talking is vital.

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But so too is listening.

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Often we take listening for granted.

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And maybe that's because we're not able to close our ears.

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In the same way we can close our mouth to stop us speaking or close our eyes to

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prevent us from seeing.

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But we can become highly selective in what and

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to whom we listen.

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And if we don't listen to our partner,

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they may well shut down.

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They'll probably stop talking to us about their thoughts and feelings.

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And we've discovered that listening is one of the most important skills

12:20

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to learn if we're to have a strong marriage.

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And I have certainly had to learn a lot over the years because I'm

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not a naturally good listener.

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There's a great quote from the Bible that says,

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everyone should be quick to listen,

12:33

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slow to speak,

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and slow to become angry.

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And I have to remind myself of that often.

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And actually,

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it also reminds me of a well -known helpline service in the UK that

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had an advertising poster of just a huge ear with the words written

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across it, open 24 hours.

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And they know that they can give support,

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sometimes life -changing support,

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just through listening.

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The amazing thing about marriage is that we have it in our power to make

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our partner feel loved and valued just by listening to them.

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This is one of the greatest gifts we can give to our partner and to

13:09

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our marriage.

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But often,

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it's the people we're closest to that we can find it hardest to

13:15

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listen to.

13:16

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It's so easy to stop listening to our partner or cut them off

13:20

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

because we think,

13:21

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I already know what they're going to say next.

13:23

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

And we short -circuit the conversation,

13:26

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sometimes just to speed things up.

13:28

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But the effect is,

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we can stop our partner saying what they're thinking or feeling.

13:33

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When they haven't been listened to,

13:35

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people talk about feeling frustrated,

13:37

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unsupported and taken for granted.

13:40

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And some people would go as far as to say they feel unloved or

13:44

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even rejected.

13:46

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Knowing we've been listened to is the complete opposite.

13:49

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We're likely to feel valued,

13:52

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more confident,

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supported and loved.

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And when I know that Nikki has really listened to me,

13:59

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I feel less stressed,

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I feel less anxious about life in general.

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In fact,

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it makes me feel really good.

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We want you to take a few minutes thinking about the effect of

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being a good listener.

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Please look at the questions in the next conversation,

14:14

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The Power of Listening,

14:16

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and tell your partner how you would answer them.

14:18

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We're going to talk now about some of the

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things that can get in the way of us being good listeners.

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It may be we didn't have a model growing up or never experienced

14:30

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being listened to ourselves.

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Or it may be we were regularly ignored or criticised and put down,

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so we instinctively jump into justifying or defending ourselves.

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And it's become a habit.

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And most of us have got into some bad listening habits for a variety of reasons.

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And often these habits have become an automatic response and we're not even aware

14:49

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

of them.

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The trouble is,

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they can stop us communicating and connecting effectively with each

14:55

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other at a deep level.

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S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

So,

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we want to look at five bad...

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listening habits.

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And it's worth recognizing that most of us will fall into at

15:04

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least one of these.

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Well, some of us fall into a lot more.

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That's me.

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I have to be working on at least three most of the time.

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So,

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the first bad listening habit is disengaging.

15:17

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Sometimes we disengage from what our partner is saying because

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there's a separate conversation going on in our heads which distracts

15:26

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us.

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S… Speaker 3 (Session 2 Audio only)

Maybe that's because what they're saying triggers a memory of our own.

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And as we recall this memory,

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we can become distracted and stop listening to what's being said.

15:36

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I remember a conversation I was having with Nicky about our daughter Kirstie when she

15:40

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was expecting her first baby.

15:42

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And she and her husband had to move house before the baby was

15:46

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going to be born.

15:46

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And Nicky was suggesting that we went to help them and help

15:51

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them move and how long were we going to be there.

15:54

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I suddenly realized I hadn't heard a thing he was saying because I've gone

15:58

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off into this world all of my own.

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And I was thinking about when I was pregnant with Kirsty and we had to do

16:04

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exactly the same.

16:05

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We had to move house too.

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So my own vivid memories that came flooding back had stopped

16:11

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me hearing what he was saying.

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And I had to ask him to tell me what he wanted to discuss all over

16:17

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again.

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So it may be a memory like that which causes

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us to disengage.

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Or it may be our physical environment.

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For example,

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if one of you is sitting in front of the computer and your partner comes into the

16:29

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room to talk to you,

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it can be very difficult to concentrate on what they're saying.

16:33

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For others of us,

16:34

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if we're in a room with a TV on,

16:36

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we're constantly distracted by what's on the screen.

16:39

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And with the streaming of information today,

16:42

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we're very used to filtering out what we think is interesting from what

16:46

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is not.

16:46

S… Speaker 3 (Session 2 Audio only)

So we may find ourselves disengaging through a lack

16:50

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of interest in what may be important to our partner.

16:53

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

And it takes generosity to listen to and be interested in

16:58

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

each other's world,

16:59

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especially if we're involved in quite different activities or jobs.

17:02

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But deciding to show interest will positively affect

17:07

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the way we listen.

17:08

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And this can be as simple as asking a question.

17:11

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Some of the best marriage advice we've heard was ask questions,

17:16

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ask questions,

17:17

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ask questions.

17:18

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The second bad habit is reassuring.

17:21

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For example,

17:22

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

we're talking to our husband or wife about something we're finding difficult and a reassurer

17:26

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will come in with something like,

17:28

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oh, don't worry,

17:29

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you'll be fine.

17:29

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

What you really need is a good night's sleep.

17:32

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Or it's not that bad,

17:34

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really, compared with what happened to Tom.

17:37

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And often the reassurer wants to be cheerful and positive about everything.

17:41

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But when we do this,

17:42

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it doesn't allow our partner to express any kind of disappointment,

17:46

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hurt,

17:47

S… Speaker 3 (Session 2 Audio only)

worry,

17:48

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sadness,

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or any other negative feelings.

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And that can have the effect of shutting them down.

17:54

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Now, reassuring is definitely my worst listening habit.

17:58

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I want to keep everything calm.

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I want to cheer the other person up.

18:01

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But I've come to realise it doesn't help our marriage or

18:06

S… Speaker 3 (Session 2 Audio only)

our children if I don't let other people voice any negative emotions.

18:09

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The third bad habit is giving advice.

18:14

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An advice giver always wants to give a solution to the problem.

18:17

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But the trouble is that the speaker more often than not just

18:21

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

wants to be heard and understood,

18:23

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not fixed.

18:24

S… Speaker 3 (Session 2 Audio only)

The fourth bad habit is going off on a tangent.

18:29

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You're telling someone about something that happened to you,

18:31

S… Speaker 3 (Session 2 Audio only)

but before you get to the best fit,

18:34

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they say, oh,

18:35

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that's just like what happened to me last week.

18:37

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Or,

18:38

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oh,

18:38

S… Speaker 3 (Session 2 Audio only)

that reminds me of when I was 19 and went away traveling.

18:41

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And away they go on their own agenda.

18:43

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And you never get the chance to finish your story.

18:46

S… Speaker 3 (Session 2 Audio only)

They've totally hijacked the conversation.

18:49

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And the fifth and probably most common bad habit is interrupting.

18:53

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If you're talking to an interrupter,

18:55

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you can't afford to draw breath or pause to think.

18:58

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

If you do,

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they're in there and you've lost your chance.

19:03

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One man we know who admits he's a serial interrupter said

19:07

S… Speaker 3 (Session 2 Audio only)

to us, I thought other people's conversation was something to be endured

19:11

S… Speaker 3 (Session 2 Audio only)

until I could start talking again.

19:14

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

So in conclusion,

19:15

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

all five of these habits prevent the speaker from saying what they're feeling.

19:19

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

And if that goes on happening,

19:21

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

the speaker then starts to shut down and give up and say to themselves,

19:25

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what's the point of trying to communicate?

19:28

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So it's worth asking ourselves,

19:30

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do I have one or more of these bad habits?

19:34

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We're going to give you a few minutes now to identify what your particular

19:39

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bad habits are.

19:39

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

So we want you to turn to the conversation in your journal,

19:42

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

Identifying Bad Habits.

19:44

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And if you're finding it difficult to identify yours,

19:47

S… Speaker 3 (Session 2 Audio only)

you could check with your partner.

19:49

S… Speaker 3 (Session 2 Audio only)

They may have a better idea.

19:51

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

It's only when we recognise our bad habits that we can then

19:55

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

start to change.

19:56

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

We can all learn the art of effective listening.

20:00

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But it takes time and it requires us to be intentional.

20:03

S… Speaker 2 (Session 2 Audio only)

And the best training ground is marriage itself because it gives us plenty of

20:07

S… Speaker 2 (Session 2 Audio only)

opportunity for practice.

20:08

S… Speaker 2 (Session 2 Audio only)

And our partner can help us by letting us know when we fall

20:13

S… Speaker 2 (Session 2 Audio only)

into our worst habits.

20:14

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

And Scylla has certainly helped me to let others express negative

20:18

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

emotions and to be better myself at expressing what I'm feeling.

20:22

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And Nikki is really helpful for me by telling me

20:26

S… Speaker 2 (Session 2 Audio only)

when I've interrupted someone or him,

20:28

S… Speaker 2 (Session 2 Audio only)

as I've often been totally unaware when I've cut people off.

20:32

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In a moment,

20:33

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

Silla and I are going to have a conversation in front of you.

20:36

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

Silla's going to tell me about an issue she's feeling concerned about,

20:40

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

and I have no idea what it is,

20:43

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

so this conversation is completely unrehearsed.

20:46

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

My role is to try to model how to listen effectively.

20:50

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

But before we do that,

20:52

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

we'll run through five steps for what's called reflective listening.

20:55

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

Reflective listening is based on a lot of research,

20:59

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

and that's what I'm going to try and use.

21:01

S… Speaker 2 (Session 2 Audio only)

So the first step is to try to put yourself in your partner's shoes.

21:05

S… Speaker 2 (Session 2 Audio only)

Our partner may be struggling to express themselves.

21:09

S… Speaker 2 (Session 2 Audio only)

They may not be used to doing so or they may only be just

21:13

S… Speaker 2 (Session 2 Audio only)

working out their feelings as they talk.

21:15

S… Speaker 2 (Session 2 Audio only)

So don't rush them and don't be afraid of silences.

21:18

S… Speaker 2 (Session 2 Audio only)

We are trying to understand their perspective.

21:21

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

The second step is to acknowledge what they've

21:26

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

said.

21:26

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

When you've listened to what your partner wants to say,

21:29

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

reflect back what they've said to you.

21:32

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

Reflecting back means saying back to them the main points

21:36

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

you've heard, including any feelings they've expressed.

21:40

S… Speaker 3 (Session 2 Audio only)

Now,

21:40

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

at this stage,

21:41

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

you're not agreeing or disagreeing or giving your own opinion.

21:45

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

Your turn to do that will come later.

21:47

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

Reflecting back has two benefits.

21:51

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

First of all,

21:52

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

it helps us find out if we've really understood what our

21:56

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

partner has told us.

21:57

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

And secondly,

21:58

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

it helps them know if they've been understood.

22:01

S… Speaker 3 (Session 2 Audio only)

Now,

22:02

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

it'll probably feel awkward or contrived when you first

22:06

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

do it, and it certainly did for me.

22:08

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

I had to resist saying what I thought

22:12

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

while Scylla was speaking.

22:13

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

I had to restrain myself from wanting to give my side of the story.

22:17

S… Speaker 1 (Session 2 Audio only)

But we know now from our own experience that reflecting back makes

Session 2 Audio only

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