jung

0:01

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Dr.

0:02

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Jung, we have been discussing in some detail some of the

0:06

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

factors in the development of the personality of the individual and you have very

0:10

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

kindly elaborated for us on some of your fundamental

0:14

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

concepts such as the archetype and at least simply

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

what it means and certain types of archetypes such as the anima and the animus

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

and we try to show perhaps in our discussion some of the ways that

0:27

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

your ideas may have differed from those of Dr.

0:30

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Freud.

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Now, another concept or idea that seems to be

0:35

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

a very interesting one in your work,

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

at least as I see it,

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

is the term or concept persona.

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And,

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

of course, this seems to have a lot of relevance to the daily

0:46

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

living of the individual.

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

I wonder if you would mind telling us a little bit about how you construe

0:52

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

this term persona.

0:53

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Well,

0:55

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

this is a...

0:58

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

practical concept we need in elucidating

1:02

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

people's relation.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

I noticed with my patients,

1:08

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

particularly with people that are in public

1:13

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

life, that they have a certain way of presenting

1:18

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

themselves.

1:19

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

For instance,

1:21

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

take the doctor.

1:22

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

He has a certain way for it.

1:25

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

He has good bedside manners and he behaves

1:31

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

as one expects a doctor behaves.

1:34

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

He may even identify himself with it and believe

1:39

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

that he is what he appears to be.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

He must appear in a certain form

1:46

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

unless people don't believe that he is a doctor.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

and so when he's a professor he's also supposed to behave in a certain

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

way so that it is plausible that he is a professor you

1:58

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

know so the persona is partially the

2:03

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

result of the demands society has and

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

on the other side it is a compromise with what

2:12

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

one likes to be or with what or as

2:16

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

one likes to appear

2:20

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

So take,

2:22

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

for instance,

2:23

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

a person.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

He also has his particular manner and as corresponding

2:29

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

to the general expectation and he behaves also

2:34

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

in another way combined

2:38

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

with his persona that is forced upon

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

him by society.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

in such a way that also his fiction of himself,

2:50

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

his idea about himself,

2:52

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

is more or less portrayed or

2:57

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

represented.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

So the persona is a certain complicated

3:03

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

system of behavior which is partially dictated by society

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

and partially dictated by the expectations

3:12

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

of the wishes.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

when nurses want help.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Now,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

this is not the real personality,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

in spite of the fact that people will assure you that it is

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

all quite real and quite honest,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

yet it is not.

3:31

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Now,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

such a performance or,

3:36

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

say,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the performance of the persona...

3:42

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

is quite all right as long as you know that you are not

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

identical with the way in which you appear.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

If

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

you are unconscious of this fact,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

then you get into sometimes

4:00

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

very disagreeable conflicts,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

namely people can't help noticing that at

4:07

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

home, for instance,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

you are quite different from what you appear to be in public.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

And people who don't know it...

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

stumble over it in the end.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

They deny that they are like that,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

but they are like that.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

They are it.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

And then you don't know.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Now, which is the real man?

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Yes, yes.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Is he the man as he is at home or in intimate relations?

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Or is he the man that appears in public?

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

It is a question of check and hide.

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Yes.

4:37

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Often.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

It is such,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

occasionally there is such a difference that you would almost be...

4:43

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

able to speak of double

4:47

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

personality.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

And the more that is pronounced,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the more people are neurotic.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

They get neurotic because they have two different ways they contradict

4:59

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

themselves.

5:00

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

all the time,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

and as much as they are unconscious of themselves,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

they don't know it.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

They think they're all one.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Everybody sees that there are two.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

And some know him only from one side,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

others know him only from the other side,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

and then there are situations that clash,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

because the way you are creates certain situations

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

with people in your relations,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

and these two situations don't chime.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

They are just dissonances.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

And the more that is the case,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the more the people are neurotic.

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Actually,

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

would you say that the individual may even have more than two personas?

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

In other words,

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

could he possibly...

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Oh, rarely.

5:46

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

We can't afford it very

5:51

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

well to play more than two roles,

5:54

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

but there are.

5:55

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

There are cases,

5:56

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

for instance, where people have up to five different personalities,

6:00

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

in cases of dissociation of personality,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

where,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

for instance,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the one person,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

say, call it person A,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

doesn't know of the existence of the person B,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

but B knows of A.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Or there may be a third personality C that

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

doesn't know of the two others.

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Yes.

6:22

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

You see,

6:23

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

there are such cases in literature.

6:25

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Yes.

6:26

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

But they are rare.

6:28

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

The ordinary case is just an ordinary dissociation

6:32

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

of a personality.

6:33

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

One calls that a systematic dissociation in

6:37

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

contradistinction to the chaotic or unsystematic

6:43

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

dissociation you find in schizophrenia.

6:45

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Yes.

6:46

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Now,

6:47

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

you distinguish between the term persona...

6:51

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

the term persona and the term ego in other words as you see them they're two different

6:55

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

things yes yes now what is the difference between the term ego as you

6:59

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

see it and the term well you see the ego is supposed to

7:03

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

be the representative of the real person but as i say

7:07

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

for instance in the case where b

7:12

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

knows of A,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

but A doesn't know of B.

7:15

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

In that case,

7:16

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

one would say the ego is more on the side of C,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

because the ego has a more complete knowledge,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

and A is a split of personality.

7:25

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Now,

7:27

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

you also use the term self.

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Now,

7:29

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

the word self,

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

then, would this have a different meaning than,

7:33

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

say, ego?

7:34

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Oh, yes.

7:34

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Oh, right.

7:35

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Oh, yes.

7:35

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

You see?

7:37

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

When I say self,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

then you must not think of I myself,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

because that is only your empirical self,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

and that is covered by the term ego.

7:48

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Ego, yes.

7:49

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

But when it is a matter of the self,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

then it is a matter of a personality that is more complete than

7:56

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the ego,

7:56

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

because the ego is only,

7:58

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

consists of what you are conscious of.

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Yes, yes,

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

your awareness.

8:03

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Yeah, what you know to be yourself.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

For instance,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

in our example,

8:09

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

B that knows A and A doesn't know B.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

B is relatively in

8:18

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the position of the self,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

namely...

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the self is on the one side the ego on

8:25

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the other side the unconscious personality which everybody is

8:30

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

in the possession of everybody not in the possession very often it's just

8:34

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the other way around that the unconscious is in possession of consciousness but

8:39

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

that is a different case now you

8:43

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

see while I am talking

8:46

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

I'm conscious of what I say.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

I'm conscious of myself.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Yet,

8:51

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

only to a certain extent,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

quite a lot of things happen.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Once I make gestures,

8:59

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

I'm not conscious of them.

9:01

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

They happen unconsciously.

9:03

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

You can see them.

9:04

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

I may say or use words,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

and I can't remember at all having used those words.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Or even at the moment,

9:11

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

I'm not conscious of them.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

So, any amount of unconscious things occur

9:18

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

in my conscious condition.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

I'm never wholly conscious of myself.

9:23

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

While I'm trying,

9:27

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

for instance,

9:27

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

to elaborate an argument,

9:30

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

at the same time,

9:34

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

there are unconscious processes that continue perhaps

9:38

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

a dream which I had had last night.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Part of myself thinks of God knows what,

9:45

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

of a trip I'm going to take,

9:48

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

or of such and such people I have seen,

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

or when I'm at,

9:52

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

say,

9:53

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

writing a paper,

9:56

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

I'm continuing writing that paper in my mind.

10:00

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

mind without knowing it yeah you

10:04

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

can discover these things say in

10:08

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

dreams or if you are clever in immediate

10:13

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

observation of an individual then you see in

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

the gestures or in the expression in the face that there is enough

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

what one calls something behind consciousness

10:27

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

so that you you have

10:29

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Finally the feeling,

10:30

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

well,

10:32

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

that man has something up his sleeve.

10:34

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And you can even ask him now,

10:37

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

what are you really thinking?

10:39

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

You're thinking all the time something else,

10:42

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

yet he's not conscious of it.

10:44

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Or he may be.

10:46

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

There are,

10:48

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

of course, great individual differences.

10:50

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

There are individuals who have amazing knowledge themselves of

10:55

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

the things that go on in themselves.

10:57

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

But even those people wouldn't be capable of...

11:01

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

of knowing what is going on in their unconscious.

11:03

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

For instance,

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

they are not conscious of the fact.

11:07

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

While they live a conscious life,

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

all the time a myth is played in the unconscious.

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

A myth that extends over centuries.

11:16

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Namely,

11:18

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

a

11:22

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

dream of archetypal ideas that goes on through

11:26

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

one individual through the centuries.

11:32

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

It is like a continuous stream.

11:35

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And that comes into the daylight in the great movements.

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S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Say,

11:39

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

in political movements or in spiritual movements,

11:43

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

in the

11:47

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

time before reformation,

11:49

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

dreamt of

11:53

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

the great change.

11:54

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And that's the reason why such great transformations could

11:58

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

be predicted.

11:59

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

If somebody has been clever enough to

12:04

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

see what is going on in people's mind.

12:07

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

in the unconscious mind,

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S… Speaker 2 (jung)

be able to predict it.

12:13

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

For instance, I have predicted the Nazi rising in Germany through

12:17

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

the observation of my German patients.

12:19

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

They had dreams in which the whole thing was anticipated

12:24

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

and with considerable detail.

12:27

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And I was already absolutely certain

12:31

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

in the years before Hitler,

12:36

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

before Hitler came in the beginning.

12:41

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

could say the year in the year 1919 I was sure that

12:46

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

something was threatening in Germany something very big and very

12:50

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

catastrophic and I only knew it through the through the observation

12:54

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

of the of the of the of the unconscious you see there

12:58

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

is something very particular in the different nations this

13:03

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

is a peculiar fact

13:04

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

that the archetype of the anima plays a very great

13:08

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

role in Western literature,

13:10

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

French and Anglo -Saxon,

13:12

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

not in Germany.

13:13

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

There are exceedingly few examples in German literature

13:17

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

where the anima plays a role.

13:19

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

You know,

13:20

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

that simply comes from the fact not

13:25

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

woman,

13:25

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

not one woman,

13:27

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

is buried,

13:29

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

unless she is buried,

13:33

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

as alt -Kamine -Fegers -Kartine,

13:36

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

at least.

13:39

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

She must have a title,

13:41

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

otherwise she hasn't existed.

13:43

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

And so,

13:45

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

you see, it is just as if,

13:47

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

now mind you, this is a bit drastic,

13:50

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

but it illustrates my point.

13:52

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

In Germany,

13:54

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

there are no women.

13:56

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

There is Frau Doktor,

13:59

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Frau Professor.

14:04

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

The grandmother,

14:05

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

the mother -in -law,

14:08

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the grandfather,

14:09

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the father,

14:10

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

the son,

14:11

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the daughter,

14:11

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the sister,

14:12

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the number.

14:14

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

The woman doesn't

14:19

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

exist anymore.

14:20

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

It is the idea,

14:24

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

you see.

14:25

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Now that is an enormous important

14:29

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

fact.

14:30

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

which shows that in the German mind,

14:33

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

there is going on a particular myth,

14:36

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

something very particular.

14:38

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And the psychologists really should look

14:43

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

out for these things.

14:44

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

But they prefer to think that I'm a prophet.

14:48

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Now,

14:50

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

just in the same context of Germany,

14:52

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

this is, of course,

14:53

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

a very interesting and remarkable set of statements here.

14:56

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

How would you look at Hitler in this light?

15:00

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Would you see him as a personification,

15:01

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

a symbol of the father?

15:02

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Oh,

15:03

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

no, no.

15:04

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Not at all.

15:06

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

No,

15:07

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

no, you see, I couldn't possibly explain

15:12

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

that very complicated fact that Hitler presents.

15:16

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

It is complicated,

15:18

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

you know,

15:20

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

he's a hero figure.

15:21

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And the hero figure is far more important than any fathers that

15:25

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

have ever existed.

15:26

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Much broader than the immediate father figure.

15:30

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

No, he wasn't a father at all.

15:31

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

He was a hero in the German myth.

15:35

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And mind you,

15:36

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

a religious hero.

15:37

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

He was a savior.

15:39

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

He was meant to be a savior.

15:42

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

That is why they put his photo upon the altars.

15:45

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Somebody declared his tombstone

15:50

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

that he is happy that his

15:54

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

eyes have beheld Hitler.

15:57

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And now he can lie in peace.

16:01

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Oh, he's just a hero myth,

16:03

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

you know.

16:03

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Now,

16:04

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

getting back to the idea of the self,

16:07

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

and the self incorporates these unconscious factors.

16:11

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

The self incorporates these unconscious factors.

16:13

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

The self is merely a term that designates the whole personality.

16:17

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

The whole personality.

16:18

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

The whole personality of man is indescribable.

16:22

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Yes.

16:23

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

His consciousness can be described.

16:26

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

His unconscious cannot be described because the unconscious,

16:29

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

as I must repeat myself,

16:31

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

is always unconscious.

16:33

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

It is really unconscious.

16:35

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

It really does not know it.

16:36

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And so we don't know our...

16:40

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Our unconscious personality,

16:42

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

we have hints,

16:43

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

we have certain ideas,

16:46

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

but we don't know it really.

16:49

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Nobody can say where man ends.

16:52

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

That is the beauty of it,

16:55

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

you know. It's very interesting.

16:57

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

The unconscious of man can

17:01

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

reach God knows where.

17:02

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

There we are going to make discoveries.

17:11

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

set of ideas which of course are very very well known to the world that

17:15

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

of course you have originated center around the the terms introversion

17:19

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

and extroversion and i know that uh you're aware of the fact that these

17:23

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

terms have now become so widely known that the man on the street using

17:27

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

these terms constantly describing his wife or his friends and so on

17:31

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

and so forth has become the most

17:34

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Probably the most used psychological concept by the layman that we

17:38

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

have.

17:38

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Oh, like the word complex.

17:39

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

I have invented it too.

17:42

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Yeah, that's right.

17:43

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Experiments.

17:45

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Yeah, that's right.

17:45

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Well,

17:46

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

you see, it is simply practical because there are certain people who definitely

17:50

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

are more influenced by their surroundings

17:55

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

than by their own intentions.

17:59

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

while there are other people who are more influenced by the

18:03

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

subjective factor.

18:05

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Now you see,

18:06

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

the subjective factor,

18:08

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

that's very characteristic,

18:09

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

was understood by Freud as a sort of pathological

18:13

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

or auto -erotism.

18:16

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Now this is a mistake.

18:18

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

You know,

18:20

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

the psyche has two conditions,

18:23

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

two important conditions.

18:25

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

One is the environmental influence.

18:30

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And the other is the given fact of

18:35

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

the psyche as it is born.

18:37

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

The psyche is by no means tabula rasa.

18:40

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

We are a definite mixture and combination of genes.

18:44

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And they are there from the very first moment of our life.

18:48

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And they give a definite character,

18:51

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

even to the little child.

18:53

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And that is a subjective factor looked at from the outside.

18:57

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Now,

18:57

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

if you look at it from the inside,

18:59

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

then it is just so as if you would observe the world.

19:03

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

When you observe the world,

19:05

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

you see people,

19:06

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

you see houses,

19:07

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

you see the sky,

19:08

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

you see tangible objects.

19:10

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

But when you observe yourself within,

19:13

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

you see moving images,

19:16

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

a world of images,

19:18

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

generally known as fantasies.

19:24

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Yet these fantasies are.

19:26

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

You see,

19:28

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

it is a fact that a man has such and such a fantasy.

19:31

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And it is such a tangible fact,

19:34

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

for instance, that when a man has a certain fantasy,

19:36

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

another man may lose his life.

19:39

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

A bridge is built.

19:43

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

These houses were all fantasies.

19:46

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Everything you do here,

19:48

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

all of the others,

19:49

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

everything was fantasy to begin with.

19:52

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

And fantasy has a proper reality.

19:55

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

That is not to be forgotten.

19:57

S… Speaker 2 (jung)

Fantasy is not nothing.

20:00

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Of course, not a tangible object,

20:01

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

but it is a fact nevertheless.

20:03

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

It is,

20:04

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

see,

20:06

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

a form of energy.

20:07

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Despite the fact we can't measure it.

20:10

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

It is a manifestation of something.

20:13

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

And that is a reality that is just a

20:17

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

reality as,

20:18

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

for instance, the Peace Treaty of Versailles or something like that.

20:22

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

It is no more,

20:23

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

you can't show it.

20:24

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

But it has been a fact.

20:28

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

And so,

20:29

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the psychical events are facts,

20:33

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

are realities.

20:34

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

And when you observe the stream of images

20:38

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

within, you observe an aspect of

20:42

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the world, of the world within.

20:46

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Because the psyche,

20:48

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

you know, if you understand it as a phenomenon

20:53

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

that takes place in so -called living bodies.

21:00

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

then it is a quality of matter.

21:04

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

As our body consists of matter,

21:07

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

we discover that this matter has another aspect,

21:11

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

namely a psychic aspect.

21:12

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

And so it is simply the world from

21:16

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

within, seen from within.

21:18

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

It is just as if we were seeing into another

21:23

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

aspect of matter.

21:24

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

This idea that

21:28

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

is not my invention,

21:29

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

that the old Democritus already said.

21:32

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

talked of the spiritus insertus

21:37

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

atomis,

21:39

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

namely the spirit that is inserted in

21:43

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

atoms.

21:43

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

That means psyche is a quality

21:48

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

that appears in matter,

21:51

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

doesn't matter whether we understand it or not,

21:54

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

but this is the conclusion we come to if we

21:59

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

draw conclusions without prejudices.

22:03

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

So, you see,

22:04

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

the man who is going by the external world,

22:08

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

by the influence of the external world,

22:11

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

say, society or perceptions,

22:14

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

sense perceptions,

22:15

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

thinks that he is more valid,

22:19

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

you know, because this is valid,

22:21

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

this is real.

22:21

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

And the man who goes by the subjective factor is not valid because

22:26

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

subjective factor is nothing.

22:27

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

No,

22:28

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

that man is just as well -based.

22:32

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

Because he bases himself upon the

22:37

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

world from within.

22:38

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

And so he is quite right,

22:41

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

even if he says,

22:43

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

oh, there's nothing but my fantasy.

22:45

S… Speaker 1 (jung)

And of course that is the introvert.

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