Aghan

0:00

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

So firstly again,

0:01

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

it's a pleasure.

0:02

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Would you mind

0:07

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

telling me what is your position in the Armenian Church?

0:11

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I'm the Chancellor of the Armenian Piatriarchate.

0:15

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I'm responsible of the Chancellor.

0:18

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So anything connected to the foreign relations

0:23

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

to the Piatriarchate,

0:24

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I'm the one who presents the Piatriarchate in these kind of forums.

0:29

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So whenever they invite our

0:34

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

patriarch to somewhere,

0:35

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

or patriarch goes or he gives

0:39

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

me the letter and he says that,

0:41

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

for example,

0:42

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

if I cannot go,

0:43

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

you have to go for this.

0:44

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

And also I

0:48

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

have been appointed to be the responsible

0:53

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in the name,

0:55

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I mean, to present our patriarchate in the status

0:59

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

quo committee.

1:01

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in the Holy Sepulchre and in different places

1:05

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in the Chancellery,

1:06

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

whenever we have to make an announcement,

1:11

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

it's also under the responsibility of the Chancellery.

1:14

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

These kind of things.

1:15

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

And could you tell me about

1:19

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

the Armenian community today in Jerusalem,

1:23

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

in the Old City or in Israel and Palestine?

1:26

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Yeah,

1:27

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I mean, in the Holy Land.

1:31

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

we have like close to 10 000

1:36

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

people but the presence here

1:40

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in jerusalem is the oldest community

1:45

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in all diaspora armenian oldest quality community

1:49

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in all diaspora we are here from 16th

1:57

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

century we're here from the fourth century so

2:03

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Our presence here goes back to the early stages

2:07

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

of the Christianity.

2:08

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So whenever Armenia adopted the Christianity as

2:13

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

a state religion,

2:13

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

for sure a lot of Armenians would like to come to visit to

2:17

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

the holy places.

2:18

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So some Armenians they came,

2:21

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

some Armenians even stayed here and this is how the Armenian

2:25

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

community have been

2:29

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

arranged and came together.

2:34

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

entire as a collective as one armenian

2:39

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

community so from that years we

2:43

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

have our presence permanent presence and uninterrupted

2:48

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

presence in the holy land compared to greek and the orthodox

2:52

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

greek orthodox and the latin presence

2:57

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

catholic presence in the holy land because when the

3:01

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

crusaders came they just

3:05

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

hosted and expelled the Greeks.

3:08

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So when the Salaheddin came,

3:10

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

also they

3:15

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

hosted the Catholics.

3:18

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

But for us,

3:20

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

this is why we have uninterrupted presence from the fourth century.

3:24

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

And you know that we have four communities,

3:27

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

four quarters in the old city,

3:29

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Jewish quarter,

3:35

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Muslim quarter.

3:37

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Christian quarter and although we are the first Christians in the world but

3:42

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

we have our own quarter here this is why we are

3:46

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

also our Armenian community here and our quarter here so

3:51

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

whenever a lot of people they visit after

3:55

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

the genocide also a lot of Armenian people

3:59

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they just they fled from the

4:03

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

genocide and they came to other

4:06

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

countries, they also came to the Holy Land.

4:08

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

At that time it was like Palestine.

4:11

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So they came and they stayed here and our

4:17

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

community became bigger and bigger.

4:19

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

This was a big growth in the numbers?

4:22

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Yeah, so although a

4:26

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

lot of Armenians,

4:27

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they came, also Armenian Patriarchate accepted the orphans

4:32

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

that they came to the Holy Land.

4:35

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

so after that the problems are a lot in

4:39

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

the old city i mean in the holy land we say it's a city of

4:43

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

peace that never faced peace yes so a lot of

4:47

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

armenians they also left the country why because you know six

4:53

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

day war the war is not stopping here

4:57

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in the holy land always wars and this also

5:00

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

lot of Armenians to leave the country not only here but also in

5:05

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

all over the Middle East a lot of Christians they are leaving this country

5:09

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

and they go to Europe,

5:10

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Canada, United States,

5:11

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Australia,

5:12

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

South America I mean different places

5:17

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

so after genocide

5:21

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

although the Armenian Piyati Archeid accommodated all these people

5:25

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

but they fled from genocide but they didn't have the

5:29

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

life that quality of life everybody needs

5:34

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

to have yes so as a result of that after

5:38

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

armenian genocide some people also they found their i would

5:42

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

say safe heaven in other countries like in united states in europe

5:46

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

and kind of in different places so this diaspora

5:51

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

played a magnetic role to catch

5:57

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

and to pull the Armenians to their places also Jerusalem

6:01

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

is not something that it is strange

6:05

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

that a lot of Armenians will also go from here to other

6:09

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

countries so this is why until

6:14

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

today not

6:17

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

We are not losing a lot of Armenians,

6:19

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

what we used to do in the past,

6:21

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

but still a lot of Christians and in them also some Armenians,

6:25

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they are leaving the country.

6:26

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

The demographics are going down?

6:28

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Yeah. When was it the peak?

6:30

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

After genocide.

6:31

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

How many people,

6:33

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

how many Armenians?

6:34

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

They say that...

6:36

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

When you say the Holy Land,

6:37

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

you mean also Jordan?

6:38

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

No,

6:39

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

only Palestine.

6:40

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Yes.

6:43

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

But a lot of Armenians,

6:45

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

for example,

6:46

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in Ramallah,

6:47

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in Gaza,

6:48

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

our Patriarchy told me that many

6:53

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

years ago when he was the parish priest in Jaffa and Haifa.

6:57

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Before the Nakba?

7:01

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Yeah.

7:01

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So he used to have a

7:05

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

few families in Gaza.

7:07

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Really?

7:07

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

He used to visit them and it was a very beautiful city.

7:13

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Today we don't have any Armenians.

7:15

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I mean like more than 50 years we don't have any Armenians

7:19

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

there, any Armenian family there.

7:20

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

And also in Ramallah we used to have some Armenians,

7:23

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

but now we don't.

7:24

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Also in Bethlehem,

7:28

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

we have some Armenian families in Bethlehem.

7:31

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Not everywhere,

7:32

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I mean a lot of people they are living.

7:34

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

So today the 10 ,000 Armenians in the

7:38

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Holy Land it's only in Jerusalem?

7:40

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

No, it's in Jaffa,

7:42

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

it's in Haifa.

7:43

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Also we have Armenians that they came after the earthquake

7:47

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

of 1988.

7:50

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

After that earthquake.

7:53

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So a lot of Armenians they also came to Holy

7:57

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Land.

8:00

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they are like Armenians that they have mixed marriages in

8:04

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

their families like their father is Jewish

8:08

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

or their mother is Jewish so they have mixed marriages so there are a lot of Armenians

8:13

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

also came during this time yes so they came

8:17

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

to Israel and they have a

8:23

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

small community in Betatikva really?

8:27

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

yeah we have a small community in Betatikva also

8:31

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in Haifa in Jaffa okay

8:35

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

And now,

8:38

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

specifically talking about the community inside

8:43

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Jerusalem and inside the old city,

8:46

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

how many people live here?

8:49

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

In Armenia, in Jerusalem,

8:51

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

all in Jerusalem,

8:53

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

we would say that it's like 4 ,000.

8:56

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

close no three thousand sorry three thousand and i mean

9:00

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

in the old city like one thousand one out of the three thousand one

9:05

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

thousand in the old city and what

9:10

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

how are the Armenian community is

9:14

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

doing these years like the Armenian community that lives

9:18

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in the old city yeah i mean all the people all the secular

9:22

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

people they are working in

9:25

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Like normal people,

9:26

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

like Israelis,

9:27

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they work in different places,

9:29

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in Israeli places or in our places.

9:31

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Some of them,

9:32

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they are goldsmiths,

9:33

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

some of them are...

9:35

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

We don't have that much of the goldsmith now.

9:38

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

We have a few.

9:39

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

And also we have the families

9:44

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

that after genocide,

9:45

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they came here and stayed here.

9:47

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

And until today,

9:50

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

their children,

9:50

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

their...

9:52

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

grandchildren, they continued this art that they brought to the Holy Land,

9:56

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

the ceramic art.

10:00

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

The ceramic art came with the Armenians and it stayed here forever

10:04

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

after the genocide.

10:05

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

They didn't want to go back.

10:07

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So they stayed here,

10:09

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they opened their own places

10:13

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

to sell,

10:15

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

to work on ceramics

10:19

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

and to sell to the people that they visited the Holy Land.

10:22

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

This is why the ceramic art became a part of Jerusalem cultural

10:26

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

history.

10:27

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

The Armenian Ceramic?

10:29

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Yeah, already more than 300,

10:30

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

eh,

10:31

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

100 years.

10:32

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Yes.

10:33

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

After genocide,

10:34

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

so more than 100 years.

10:36

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So also some people,

10:37

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I mean the Israeli National Society,

10:40

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they just submitted some different kinds of requests to UNESCO

10:46

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

to put in the Armenian Ceramic card.

10:50

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Really?

10:51

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in the protected cultural list,

10:53

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

so it's a part of Jerusalem's cultural history.

10:57

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

And did you support this?

11:00

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Yes,

11:01

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

of course, and also we were during the 100th anniversary,

11:05

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they did a very big presentation

11:10

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

and very big symposium in the...

11:15

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Rockefeller Museum.

11:17

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So I visited there and they asked our patriarchy

11:21

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

to give a small speech.

11:22

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I was the one who gave the speech.

11:24

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

How do

11:30

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

you feel when it was a hundred years in memory

11:34

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

of the genocide when you gave that speech?

11:38

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

First of all it's not easy because I'm

11:42

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

telling you okay

11:45

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Wherever you put Armenians,

11:47

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they open a small motherland

11:51

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

there and start to do their work and

11:55

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

to flourish and prosper.

11:57

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

But the bad thing is that they are doing it in

12:02

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

other countries,

12:03

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

not in their homeland.

12:04

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So being caught and living that culture and

12:09

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

cultural heritage

12:13

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

that they used to have in their country,

12:15

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

their homes,

12:15

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

their everything.

12:17

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

and being away from that you lose a lot of things because

12:21

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

it's also the history is also connected to the district to the area where you

12:25

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

do this yes so finding different kinds of machines

12:31

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

finding different kinds of equipments that you have to do the

12:35

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

ceramics in another country with new equipment not

12:40

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in the way you used to in your country it's something else it affects yeah

12:44

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

it affects

12:48

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

And do you,

12:50

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

like the church,

12:51

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

the Armenian church,

12:52

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

in your community,

12:53

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

do you deal with poverty

12:58

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

or...

13:01

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Is there like communities or people that

13:05

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

the church supports in daily life?

13:08

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Yeah,

13:09

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

daily life,

13:10

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

you know, we have some...

13:11

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Like financially support?

13:13

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Yeah, financially.

13:14

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Most of all,

13:15

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

thank God,

13:16

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

the situation and the financial affairs in Israel,

13:20

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

it's not that bad.

13:21

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So they can work and they can take care of themselves.

13:23

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

But there are some families,

13:25

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I mean...

13:29

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

because of their age they're older so it's not

13:33

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

easy for them to go to buy things from from

13:38

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

down from markets or from any places from sugar or anywhere to

13:42

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

take care of their family and their daily life to cook

13:47

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

to do

13:47

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So this is why Patriarchate,

13:50

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

you know,

13:51

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

daily we prepare food for our priests and for our students and for our

13:55

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

monks that they serve in the holy places.

13:57

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

We also thought that,

14:01

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

of course,

14:05

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

by their request,

14:06

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

we also thought that we can also help them.

14:09

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

cook for them too they are not allowed but we have some

14:13

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

families that we help them yes I walked

14:17

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

around in what I got to see from this the convent and it's

14:21

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

very beautiful with arts I guess brought from Armenia

14:26

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

the the sculpture yes yes and and it's what

14:30

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

you yeah it's already from its color you can see that it doesn't belong to the area

14:36

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

you have the tooth card that it is a part of uh because

14:41

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

the caucus yeah caucus for the it's a red tooth

14:45

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

that they bring it from armenia and they chisel on it like

14:49

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

embroideries they do so that we brought it from brother

14:53

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

from armenia and we have in this for example during different anniversaries

14:58

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

for it in the

15:00

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in the yard of St.

15:02

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

James, we have the brother of Jesus Christ,

15:05

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I mean, first bishop of Jerusalem and the head of St.

15:09

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

James, the son of Zebedee.

15:10

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

You can see that.

15:12

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

But you can,

15:13

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

from just entering there,

15:14

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

you can see that they are not a part of the city culture.

15:18

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

It's new.

15:18

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

They have been brought.

15:20

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

And of course,

15:22

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

the Armenian church has a quarter.

15:25

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

I guess the land in the quarter belongs to the church,

15:29

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

right?

15:30

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I mean,

15:31

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

you mean the quarter belongs to the church?

15:33

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Yes, like all the buildings and the actual estate.

15:37

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Nothing belongs to anybody here.

15:38

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Everything belongs to the Armenian Patriarchate.

15:40

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Yes. So Armenian Patriarchate takes care of these buildings and takes care of

15:44

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

these properties.

15:45

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

But we also give,

15:47

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

for example,

15:48

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

when it is in the convent,

15:50

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

still we keep that tradition.

15:52

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

We don't collect money or anything.

15:56

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

But outside the quarter we do the the main in patriarchy

16:00

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

the the heads of the Armenian patriarchy they're back in Armenia.

16:03

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

No, no Okay here is the pet here.

16:06

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

We have our own patriarchy and who is like The

16:11

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Armenian Church.

16:12

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Yeah,

16:13

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

where is the head of the area?

16:16

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Yes.

16:16

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Yes, I sit in Armenia.

16:18

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Yes

16:20

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

And the Armenian Church is a separate denomination,

16:23

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

right?

16:24

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Yes, of course.

16:25

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

For how long?

16:27

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

From the third century.

16:29

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

From the 301 we adopted Christianity as a state

16:33

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

religion. That's it.

16:34

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

We have our own church.

16:35

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Incredible.

16:36

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

And the reason I'm asking all this about,

16:39

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

let's say,

16:40

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

earthly concepts of estate and finance is

16:45

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

because my work,

16:46

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

the work I'm writing,

16:48

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

deals with Jesus' teaching

16:54

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

about possessions.

16:56

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

In Mark 10,

16:58

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

25,

16:59

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

he talks to the rich man.

17:02

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

And the rich man asks,

17:03

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

I'm telling you stuff you...

17:05

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Yeah,

17:06

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

obviously, no.

17:06

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

The rich man will not wish to get

17:11

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

rid of his possessions.

17:12

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

And Jesus tells the pupils,

17:14

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

it will be easier for the camel to go through the needle's eye than for

17:19

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

the rich man to come in the kingdom of heaven.

17:23

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

And I'm very curious to learn more about how

17:27

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

the Armenian church interprets Jesus'

17:32

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

teaching and the

17:36

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

patriarchy that lives in the holy city,

17:40

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

where Jesus walks,

17:42

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

and it takes care of the

17:47

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

church's possessions here.

17:51

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

How does the church deal with the

17:55

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

interpretations of Jesus' saying?

17:59

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Yeah.

18:00

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So,

18:01

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

first of all,

18:02

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

if we're going to explain that kind of sentence,

18:06

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

it is for the people that they are just connected

18:11

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

to their wealth and they cannot live without their wealth.

18:14

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I mean,

18:16

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

everything they think is about

18:20

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

having more and more.

18:24

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

In patriarchy,

18:25

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

we are not thinking about more and more.

18:27

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

We are thinking about to keep our properties,

18:31

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

to have that revenue,

18:32

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

to keep the presence of the Christians in the Holy Land

18:37

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in order to be the defenders and

18:41

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

the people who guard the holy places in the Holy Land.

18:44

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Because whenever you don't have your place,

18:48

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

whenever you don't have your own

18:52

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

revenue,

18:54

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

One day,

18:55

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

especially during the war,

18:56

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

you will not be able to keep

19:00

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

the presence and maintain the

19:05

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

sustainability.

19:05

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I mean, to maintain the patriarchy,

19:09

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

to sustain the patriarchy.

19:10

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So we have to pay.

19:11

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So we have a lot of,

19:13

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

it's not a small convent

19:17

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

that you can say,

19:19

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

okay, today we are

19:23

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

going to help God.

19:25

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

God will give us,

19:26

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

okay.

19:27

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

but also god gave us the idea

19:32

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

the freeway that we have to work and to take care of because

19:36

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

in other verses they say god gave him one and he came and he

19:40

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

returned him one because he just used it yes so this is why

19:44

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

god gave us and james gave us the things

19:48

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

that what we have today and what we have today we

19:53

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

are just

19:54

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Making it whatever we can not to make it more but to make it enough

19:58

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

for keeping

20:00

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

presence and the sustainability of the patriarchy so the state of the

20:04

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

armenian quarter the name of the convent is saint james's

20:08

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

convent yeah so and the armenian a quarter is

20:12

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

the land that the first jesus's brother

20:16

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

and his first messenger he

20:20

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

gave to the armenian church not only he gave to the armenian church it

20:24

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

is it's a part that

20:27

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I mean, with the hard work of our priests and patriarchs,

20:31

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they became bigger and bigger,

20:33

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

not because we wanted to have more,

20:35

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

just because we wanted,

20:37

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

for example,

20:38

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

during Crimea war...

20:40

S… Speaker 1 (Aghan)

Crimea war in 19th century.

20:43

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So they saw that the problem is we

20:47

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

always get the money from the donators.

20:49

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I mean,

20:50

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

people used to come to visit Holy Land or to pilgrimage.

20:53

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

They used to give us food.

20:55

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Sorry,

20:56

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

money.

21:00

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So, so they gave the money to the Patriarchate and by this

21:04

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

way it was very easy for pilgrims to come and to give money

21:08

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

and Patriarchate didn't have that much problem.

21:10

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So we saw by this way we can keep the presence

21:14

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

of our Patriarchate.

21:16

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So during,

21:19

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

after the Korean War,

21:20

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

many pilgrims,

21:22

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they didn't have the chance,

21:24

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they were afraid to come to the Holy Night.

21:25

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

What happened?

21:26

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Not donation,

21:27

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

nothing.

21:29

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So we saw that we are going to lose our patriarchy.

21:32

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

We're going to lose our patriarchy,

21:36

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

our presence,

21:37

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

our Christian presence here.

21:38

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So what will happen?

21:40

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So our patriarchs decided that,

21:42

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

let us imagine there is another word,

21:44

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

it's not Crimea,

21:45

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

I don't know,

21:46

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Ukraine, for example.

21:47

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

And it is going to continue like...

21:50

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So at that time,

21:51

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they checked the treasury of

21:57

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

the patriarchy and they saw that...

21:59

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

The money is enough for three years to eat only

22:03

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

onion soup and nothing else.

22:06

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Yes.

22:06

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So this is what our priests did.

22:09

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

They didn't eat anything.

22:10

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Only onion soup.

22:11

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Three years continuously.

22:13

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Wow.

22:14

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

So,

22:15

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

but our patriarchy understood that next time when the pilgrims

22:19

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

are going to come,

22:20

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

they understood that it's a city of peace,

22:24

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

never faced peace,

22:25

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

and the warriors are going to always follow them.

22:29

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

so they decided to get the money from the donators to

22:33

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

buy properties so even when we don't have pilgrims we

22:37

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

can get revenue in order to take care of our patriarchy so this is

22:41

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

how it happened so property so when we talk about the camel

22:46

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

to go in the eye

22:50

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

of needle we're talking about

22:53

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

the desire that people have we don't have that desire to have a lot of money

22:57

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

and always we are not buying properties to get rich no we

23:02

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

just have that property and thank god by

23:08

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

working with our properties and trying to do whatever we can to get

23:12

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

the revenue to keep the patriarchy presence and to make patriarchy

23:17

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

work god gives us that opportunity and

23:22

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

that

23:26

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

ability to take care of our properties and have that revenue for

23:30

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

our patriarchy for the ongoing work and the ongoing

23:34

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

presence of our patriarchy sustainability and maintenance yes so

23:39

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

therefore when Jesus

23:45

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

speaks about the that verse speaks

23:49

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

that whenever people they are thinking about being

23:54

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

rich and not being ready to keep

23:58

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

aside

24:00

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

All this richness,

24:01

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

all this birth,

24:02

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

he will not get into the heaven.

24:05

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Wow,

24:06

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

because people deserve to become rich and

24:10

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

rich and rich because as much as you give this person,

24:14

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

he wants more.

24:15

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

The organic organism doesn't want more.

24:17

S… Speaker 2 (Aghan)

Only just things that need to...

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