s-town-ch02

0:00

S… Speaker 5 (s-town-ch02)

Chapter 2.

0:01

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

In one of my first phone conversations with John before we'd met,

0:05

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I asked him if he thought it was possible that maybe Capron Burt hadn't killed anybody.

0:09

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

If it was possible that the murder he'd contacted me about was actually just a rumor,

0:13

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

a fiction.

0:14

S… Speaker 4 (s-town-ch02)

No,

0:15

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

John said.

0:16

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

There was little doubt in his mind that it was true.

0:18

S… Speaker 4 (s-town-ch02)

And then,

0:19

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

by way of explanation,

0:20

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

he launched into this parable.

0:24

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I should admit that at the time, this story was completely lost on me.

0:37

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

So, Roger's one of these dudes,

0:39

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

he's a darn transmission mechanic.

0:40

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

He's not really talkative,

0:42

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

he's a good dude,

0:43

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

but he just,

0:43

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

you know, he only has one tooth.

0:44

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

And it's really amusing to see how he can balance a cigarette on that one tooth.

0:48

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

The whole time he's talking,

0:49

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

that cigarette is just bouncing around all over that one tooth,

0:53

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

and he never loses that son of a bitch.

0:56

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

So we're coming by this Welcome to South 47,

0:58

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

and there's this girl out there walking around in front of the damn side holding

1:03

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

a cell phone,

1:04

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

and she's got on a pink top and nothing else.

1:07

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

No fucking panties,

1:09

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

no goddamn socks,

1:11

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

barefoot.

1:12

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

And I remarked that to Roger.

1:16

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

I don't remember what I said.

1:17

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

I probably said,

1:18

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

my God, look at her or something like that.

1:20

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

And Roger's sage advice was,

1:23

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Usually when you see jokers that look like that,

1:25

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

they've done something to get like that.

1:26

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

That's

1:32

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

the lesson?

1:33

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

That went just straight through.

1:37

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

Like

1:41

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

so many things having to do with John,

1:43

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

it took me a long time to understand the meaning of this story.

1:46

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Years.

1:47

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

But I think I finally get it now.

1:50

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

From Serial and This American Life,

1:53

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I'm Brian Reed.

1:54

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

This is Shittown.

1:57

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

My

2:11

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

second night in Alabama,

2:12

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I finally get to talk to Jake Goodson.

2:15

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Jake's the guy who'd originally told John that Cabram Burt had bragged to him outside the Little

2:19

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Caesars about beating a guy to death.

2:21

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I sit with Jake in John's kitchen,

2:23

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

asking him to rack his brain for any extra details that could help me solve this.

2:27

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

It was a while ago,

2:28

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

he says.

2:28

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

His memories are fuzzy.

2:29

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

But he makes a suggestion that,

2:31

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I don't know,

2:32

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

seems crazy to me.

2:33

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

I don't know.

2:33

S… Speaker 5 (s-town-ch02)

I could get him and ask him and he'd be able to tell

2:37

S… Speaker 5 (s-town-ch02)

me. He'd probably come up here and talk to you about it.

2:40

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Who?

2:41

S… Speaker 5 (s-town-ch02)

Cabram.

2:42

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Cabram lives right nearby.

2:43

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Why not just get it from the horse's mouth?

2:45

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

No.

2:46

S… Speaker 5 (s-town-ch02)

Probably so.

2:47

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

That makes no sense.

2:48

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I would stick a microphone in his face and he would tell me about a guy he killed?

2:51

S… Speaker 5 (s-town-ch02)

Probably.

2:52

S… Speaker 5 (s-town-ch02)

He's burned up.

2:54

S… Speaker 5 (s-town-ch02)

He wouldn't know no better.

2:56

S… Speaker 5 (s-town-ch02)

He'd probably just laugh about it with you.

2:58

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I tell Jake no thanks,

3:00

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

at least not now.

3:01

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I do not feel like I'm armed with enough information to confront Cabram yet.

3:05

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Aside from seeming far -fetched,

3:07

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

the idea also just sounded potentially dangerous.

3:08

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

For John,

3:10

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

for Jake, and for me.

3:12

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

But then, the next night,

3:13

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

a bunch of other people proposed the exact same thing.

3:15

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

He would talk

3:21

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

to me about it?

3:21

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

I'm

3:27

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

chatting with a few guys in a tattoo parlor,

3:29

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

all of whom have heard about the murder.

3:31

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Some are pretty sure they heard it from Cabram himself.

3:33

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

Nah,

3:35

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

don't do that.

3:37

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

Well, I'm not a puss,

3:38

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

dude. I don't give a fuck.

3:39

S… Speaker 5 (s-town-ch02)

Apparently,

3:40

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I'm the puss because I do not want the dudes I'm talking to to call Cabram

3:44

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

right now.

3:45

S… Speaker 4 (s-town-ch02)

Already,

3:46

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

this tattoo shop does not feel like the safest place to walk into alone at night trying

3:50

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

to dig up info about a covered -up murder by a guy everyone seems to know,

3:54

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

all of which are things I've just done.

3:56

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

The last thing I want right now is for the alleged murderer to show up.

4:01

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I was invited here by Tyler Goodson,

4:03

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Jake's brother,

4:04

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

whom I met in John's workshop while he was filing that chainsaw.

4:07

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

He's one of the owners.

4:08

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Tyler knows Cabram.

4:10

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

They're both in their early 20s.

4:12

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

And I thought maybe some of Tyler's friends who hang out here might have more information about the possible

4:16

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

murder.

4:17

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

John didn't feel like coming with me because he doesn't like driving at night.

4:21

S… Speaker 4 (s-town-ch02)

When I walk in,

4:22

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

at first it seems like a pretty small place,

4:24

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

just a couple of tattooing stations and a little waiting area.

4:27

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

But if you push the back wall of the shop,

4:29

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

it swings open.

4:30

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

It's a secret door,

4:31

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

which leads into a hidden clubhouse in the back.

4:34

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

There's a bar with some people around it,

4:36

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

a pool table,

4:37

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

a small stage with motorcycles parked there,

4:39

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

and a brass stripper pole that's currently vacant.

4:42

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

The shop is called Black Sheep Inc.,

4:45

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

and I learned that the guys who hang out here take the name to heart.

4:48

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

They see themselves as a collection of misfits,

4:50

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

of self -proclaimed criminals and runaways and hillbillies.

4:53

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

And Tyler has built this place as a haven for them,

4:56

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

a place to swap their tales of getting jerked around by...

5:00

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

cops and judges and clerks and bosses,

5:02

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

and to cultivate a sense of pride in their status as the outcasts of their world.

5:06

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

There's this gentleman,

5:08

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

whose name I never do catch,

5:09

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

who tells me,

5:10

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

quote, I'm so fucking fat I don't care no more,

5:13

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

and lifts up his shirt to show me the giant words he has tattooed on his stomach.

5:18

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Feed me.

5:18

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Tell him,

5:19

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

tell him.

5:19

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Give him a picture.

5:20

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

I'm a six -foot,

5:21

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

350 -pound bearded man,

5:23

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

and a John Deere hat would feed me on my belly.

5:26

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Just so y 'all get a clear picture here.

5:28

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

There's a guy who's been wearing the same trucker hat for seven years.

5:30

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Seven years.

5:31

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Same hat.

5:33

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Then there's this guy.

5:34

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

People call him Razor.

5:36

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Bam, bam,

5:37

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

and let's back it up.

5:37

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

I was parked on the side of the road before I looked down and I said,

5:39

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

son of a bitch, he real rakes up.

5:40

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Yeah,

5:41

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Walter Odom come by,

5:42

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

man, see him laying in the yard and he's already dying.

5:50

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I believe he's telling a story about his friend Willard,

5:53

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

who is impervious to death.

5:54

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

And then

6:00

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

there's Tyler,

6:01

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

who's been sleeping at the tattoo parlor lately because he can't afford anywhere else

6:05

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

to spend the night.

6:07

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

who's 23 years old and has three daughters with three different women,

6:10

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

and who's been haunted his whole life by people assuming he's just like his father.

6:14

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

His father who abused him and his siblings and his mother,

6:17

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

and who is a convicted sex offender for having sex with a minor.

6:20

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

One day,

6:22

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Tyler will tell me that he often wakes up in the morning in a puddle of sweat,

6:25

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

having dreamt during the night of killing his dad.

6:27

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Tyler's friendly to me when I arrive,

6:31

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

welcoming.

6:31

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

But as I'm getting out my recording equipment,

6:33

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I hear murmurs from other people wondering who I am,

6:36

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

wondering if I might be a cop.

6:38

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

People are asking me questions,

6:40

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

feeling me out.

6:41

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

A few guys ask if I'll smoke a bowl with them out of some deer antlers.

6:44

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I don't want to be stoned,

6:45

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

but I also don't want to seem like a narc.

6:47

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

So I pretend to take a puff.

6:48

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I pretend to do a number of things that make me feel very uncomfortable

6:53

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

in order to keep as low a profile as possible,

6:55

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

such as act like I'm not shocked or upset or scared

6:59

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

when someone says this to me,

7:01

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

a radio producer with a microphone,

7:03

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

in the first few minutes that we're talking.

7:05

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

At the risk of ruining any surprise,

7:07

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

the statement is racist and nonsensical,

7:09

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

replete with multiple uses of a terrible word.

7:12

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

You know,

7:13

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

we had a tax -free labor.

7:14

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

It didn't have nothing to do with a bunch of niggers picking cotton.

7:16

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

And we worked our ass off,

7:18

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

and we earned everything we got.

7:20

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

This is a tattoo artist who goes by Bubba.

7:23

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

So now we haven't got a tax -paying job.

7:26

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

You got to take care of some nigger's wife that's in jail because she's drawing a child

7:30

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

support check on each one of them.

7:32

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Later, Bubba will display a rather fluent knowledge of the differences between various white

7:36

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

supremacy groups.

7:37

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Mind you,

7:38

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

we're in a majority black city right now,

7:40

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Bessemer,

7:41

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

about 20 minutes from Bibb County,

7:43

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

heading towards Birmingham.

7:44

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

But everyone in here is white,

7:45

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

including me.

7:46

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Someone mentions offhand that the small tattoo area in front is about as much

7:50

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

shop as you want here in Bessemer.

7:51

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Otherwise,

7:52

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

the place will be filled with black people who piss you off and won't pay anything.

7:56

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Hence the secret door.

7:57

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Before I left for Alabama,

8:00

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

my girlfriend Solange,

8:01

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

now my wife,

8:02

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

who's black and whose family is from the South,

8:05

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

had insisted I make my Facebook and Instagram accounts private because

8:09

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

they're filled with pictures of us together.

8:10

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I told her she was being silly,

8:12

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

overly paranoid.

8:13

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Now I'm grateful I decided at the last minute to follow her advice.

8:17

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

When someone asks me what the women look like up in New York,

8:20

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I tell them they're all shapes,

8:21

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

sizes, and colors.

8:23

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

When someone asks what my ethnicity is,

8:25

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I tell them about the Italian part without mentioning the Russian Jew part.

8:29

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

But there's no hiding the fact that I'm a Yankee.

8:32

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

It's go quieter.

8:36

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

In

8:40

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

an effort to change the subject,

8:41

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I turn the conversation to one of the few things I know I have in common with these guys.

8:46

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Do you guys know John?

8:47

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Our mutual acquaintance,

8:48

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

John B.

8:49

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

McLemore.

8:50

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

He's a character.

8:52

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

I ain't ever met nobody else like him.

9:11

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

They tell me

9:16

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

John comes around the tattoo parlor pretty often and likes to lecture them and give them a hard time.

9:21

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

He'll argue with them about their views on the South,

9:23

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

on politics,

9:24

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

on race.

9:24

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Bubba says he'll submit them to tirades about the coming climate and energy apocalypses.

9:29

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

About how we was running out of fossil fuels and the world was going to come

9:33

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

to the fucking end.

9:34

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

John tells off their customers for talking about what he sees as inane shit.

9:38

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

tells these guys that their lives are amounting to nothing,

9:41

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

that they're examples in the flesh of what's wrong with this place.

9:44

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

He thinks everybody's a failure.

9:46

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Everything that's going on is a failure.

9:49

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

This is another tattoo artist,

9:50

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Joel.

9:51

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

He calls you guys failures?

9:52

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Fuck yeah,

9:53

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

he calls us failures,

9:54

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

you know what I mean?

9:55

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Like jokingly or?

9:56

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

No, everybody's a failure.

9:58

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Like in his brain,

9:59

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

everybody.

10:00

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

is a failure.

10:00

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

For all I know,

10:01

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

you could be a failure.

10:02

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

You know,

10:02

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

sometimes I wish he'd kind of fail.

10:04

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

These guys dish it out,

10:05

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

too. They tease John for his many peculiarities.

10:08

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Like,

10:09

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

how he'll devour whatever leftover food is around,

10:12

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

no matter how old or rock -hearted it is.

10:14

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

His inability to buy new shoes to alleviate his athlete's foot,

10:17

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

which he's allegedly had for three years.

10:19

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

His extemporaneous solving of math problems.

10:22

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

His utter aversion to being in a room with more than two or three people at a time.

10:26

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

His living with his mom his whole life.

10:28

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

His being a loner.

10:29

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

It's friendly,

10:31

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

though. They like John.

10:32

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

After all,

10:33

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

John is the granddaddy of all black sheep.

10:35

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

So this crew gets him.

10:37

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

They truly seem to accept him.

10:39

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Though that doesn't stop them from wondering.

10:41

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

I'd love to know what he's worth.

10:43

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I'd love to know what he's worth,

10:44

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

the Feed Me guy says.

10:45

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

Just not because I give a fuck.

10:49

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

Just to know why does he live like that?

10:51

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

Poor as a church mouse.

10:54

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

That's Tyler saying he lives like he's poor as a church mouse.

10:58

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

And Tyler would know.

10:59

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

He and John are close.

11:01

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

He's the only reason all these guys know John.

11:03

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Tyler helped build John's maze.

11:05

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

He's done all sorts of different odd jobs for him.

11:08

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

He's over there all the time.

11:09

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

And as far as the church mouse,

11:11

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I did notice that John's refrigerator is pretty bare.

11:14

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

His mom invited me to stay for dinner one night,

11:17

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

so long as I didn't mind eating like poe folk,

11:19

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

she told me, in a way where I couldn't tell she was joking.

11:22

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

They live without air conditioning,

11:23

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

without TV.

11:24

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

It's mysterious to me,

11:26

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

too, because at the same time,

11:27

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

John has all these dogs he feeds and brings to the vet,

11:30

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

this elaborate yard that requires constant upkeep.

11:32

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

He mentioned to me that he spent more than $60 ,000 on the maze alone.

11:36

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Feed me,

11:38

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

guy, says to Tyler.

11:39

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

I don't understand why,

11:40

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

if he's as loaded as you say.

11:43

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Oh,

11:44

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

he's worth millions.

11:45

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Millions?

11:48

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

Have you not done any research on John?

11:50

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Tyler explains that John's family comes from money.

11:54

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

He says that one of his grandpas was a judge,

11:56

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

and that John got an inheritance,

11:58

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

played the stock market with it,

11:59

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

and made even more money.

12:00

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Plus,

12:01

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

aside from all that,

12:02

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Tyler says John made good bank,

12:03

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

restoring old clocks.

12:04

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

All of that sounds like it could be true enough.

12:07

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

But then Tyler and his friends start listing off John's assets,

12:09

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

and I can't tell if any of that is real,

12:11

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

or if they're just letting their imaginations fill in the blanks about their local Boo Radley.

12:16

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

They claim John has $400 ,000 in cash,

12:19

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

a hundred -some -odd thousand worth of tools in the workshop,

12:21

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

all the antiques around his house.

12:23

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

You're going to get $150 ,000 if you sell that old -ass shit,

12:26

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Bubba says.

12:27

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Wear books in the basement,

12:28

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

a single clock worth $10 ,000 that's just sitting on the floor in a plastic storage

12:33

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

bin.

12:33

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Not to mention,

12:35

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

says Tyler.

12:35

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

Gold that his granddaddy,

12:38

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

his granddaddy's gold,

12:39

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

his daddy's gold.

12:43

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Tyler's up on the counter of the bar,

12:44

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

crouching.

12:45

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

He has a brown briefcase he carries around with him.

12:47

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

He calls it his minister's case.

12:49

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

It has a sticker that says minister slapped on the outside.

12:52

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

And it's filled with his tattoo machines and a gun and his welder's cap and some

12:56

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

nipple jewelry and his black sheeping business cards and also his minister's license,

13:00

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

which he got online because he wanted to found a non -denominational church where

13:04

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

people of all backgrounds could come together and talk it out.

13:07

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

This clubhouse is meant to be a version of that.

13:09

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

He says it's his church.

13:11

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Tyler stares down at us from the corner of the bar like he's

13:15

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

about to divulge a secret.

13:16

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

When it comes to John,

13:18

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

he says there's no telling.

13:19

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

What he's got,

13:21

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

because there's a lot of shit that I'm sure I don't know about because I've been finding

13:25

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

stuff out slowly over the years.

13:28

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

And there's damn secret

13:32

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

little dungeons and shit under his damn house,

13:35

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

man. I ain't playing.

13:35

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

I've built gates for them.

13:37

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

I've built gates for these lame dungeons.

13:40

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I've built gates for the dungeons,

13:43

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Tyler's telling me.

13:44

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Dungeons in John's basement.

13:46

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

He soon clarifies,

13:48

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

they're actually old crawl spaces.

13:50

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

But the way John had him rigging them up,

13:52

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Tyler says,

13:52

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

with tiny doors and these locking iron gates inside,

13:55

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

dividing them into sections,

13:56

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

what was the purpose of all that?

13:58

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

It was creepy.

14:00

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Though Tyler digs creepy stuff,

14:02

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

so he also thought it was cool.

14:14

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

That guy Bubba,

14:15

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

the one who's especially outspoken about his racist views.

14:17

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

As the night goes on,

14:19

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

I put together that he's the one who gave John all his tattoos,

14:22

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

the tattoos that John showed me abruptly at his workshop that cover his whole chest.

14:26

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Bubba,

14:28

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

he explains that being a tattoo artist is a lot like being a therapist.

14:31

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

People sit in his chair for hours on end,

14:34

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

and each person he works on is getting that tattoo for some specific reason.

14:38

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

It's his job,

14:39

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

if he sees it,

14:40

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

to uncover that reason.

14:42

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Maybe it's a meditation,

14:43

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

a milestone,

14:44

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

an excuse to get out of the house,

14:45

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

a new girlfriend,

14:46

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

a death.

14:47

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

John's motivation was especially bewildering to Bubba

14:51

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

because John had made it clear almost every time he came in the shop how deeply he

14:55

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

despised tattoos.

14:56

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

If you got a tattoo on you,

14:58

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

he'd tell you you wasn't shit.

15:00

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

You're low life.

15:01

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

You shouldn't have that on you.

15:02

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

So as shocking as it was to me when John lifted up his shirt to show me all his tattoos,

15:06

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

it was far more shocking to Bubba when John strolled in one day at the age

15:10

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

of 47 and asked him to start putting them there.

15:13

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

I thought he was going to commit suicide.

15:15

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

You know,

15:16

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

that's what I thought in my mind.

15:17

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Why?

15:18

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Is it something you're completely against?

15:21

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

You think fucking failures have tattoos,

15:24

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

you know what I'm saying?

15:25

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Why in the fuck would you just start tattooing your whole upper

15:29

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

body like that,

15:30

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

you know what I mean,

15:31

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

and around your neck?

15:32

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Pistons,

15:33

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

tattooing pistons on him,

15:34

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

you know? Redneck has tattoos,

15:36

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

you know?

15:37

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

So,

15:38

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

I mean, first thought,

15:39

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

I thought he was going to kill himself.

15:40

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

I thought he was going to get tatted the fuck up and blow his brains out or

15:44

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

something.

15:45

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

Fuck, I don't know.

15:46

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

And then the more...

15:50

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

I got to doing it,

15:51

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

you know, I realized,

15:52

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

you know, we're in a rut,

15:54

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

you know, we need some money,

15:56

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

and he helped us out.

15:57

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

I mean,

15:57

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

he helped a lot.

15:58

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Bubba and Tyler co -owned Black Sheep Inc.

16:02

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

together.

16:02

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

And Bubba started noticing they'd have a bill about to come due for the business.

16:06

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

They'd be wondering how they were going to pay it.

16:08

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

And then conveniently,

16:09

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

John would come in and hand over $300 or $400 and ask for

16:13

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

another tattoo on his chest.

16:15

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

Bubba says people around here don't throw down money like that.

16:19

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

But John would,

16:20

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

just in the nick of time,

16:21

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

and then schedule another appointment for soon after.

16:23

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

He might not have said I'm helping you out,

16:27

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

but when you sit down and pay me $2 ,000,

16:29

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

$3 ,000 in a couple weeks span,

16:32

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

you just helped me out.

16:33

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

You know, you just got all my bills caught up.

16:36

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

You just got everything back to where it needed to be,

16:39

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

you know.

16:41

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

And you think that's why he did it?

16:42

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

Now I do.

16:44

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

He keeps a book,

16:46

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

man.

16:47

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

He writes down everything.

16:49

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

So he knows when we're having a bad time.

16:51

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

He'd ask certain things like,

16:54

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

what's the rent?

16:54

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

You know, what's your power bill?

16:56

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

When does it do?

16:57

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

And he already knows this shit because he writes shit down.

17:00

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

And he just,

17:01

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

you know, planned his tattoo out to where it pretty much paid everything up

17:05

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

in increments.

17:06

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

Wait,

17:07

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

it was like that exact almost?

17:09

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

Yeah.

17:10

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

If

17:17

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

it wasn't for John,

17:17

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

we'd be shut the fuck down.

17:19

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

If it wasn't for John?

17:20

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Yeah, if it wasn't for John,

17:22

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

I'd be tattooing at my kitchen table right now.

17:24

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

And I think he sacrificed his skin to help us out.

17:27

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

Bubba

17:34

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

says John is an emotional guy.

17:36

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

And sure,

17:36

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

a lot of that emotion is discussed.

17:38

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

But there's also sympathy.

17:39

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

In particular for Tyler.

17:41

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

If he's helping the tattoo parlor,

17:43

S… Speaker 2 (s-town-ch02)

he's only doing it because of Tyler and his brother Jake.

17:46

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

He's just watched them boys,

17:48

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

man.

17:48

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

He knows how his daddy was.

17:50

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

I mean, the kid was laying block at five years old.

17:53

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

Tyler,

17:54

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

that is.

17:54

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

You know,

17:55

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

on the job site,

17:56

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

working.

17:57

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Not going to school,

17:58

S… Speaker 3 (s-town-ch02)

working.

17:59

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Go to school two days a week,

18:02

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

work five days a week.

18:03

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

You know what I mean?

18:04

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

So he just seen it and he knows

18:08

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

it wasn't right.

18:09

S… Speaker 1 (s-town-ch02)

Sees how Tyler's been programmed to be the way he

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