meeting (1)

0:01

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

The directors were interesting,

0:02

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

to be honest,

0:03

in terms of they've all got different agendas and it's all about what they want from

0:07

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

their business,

0:08

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I suppose, if you want to look at it like that.

0:10

S… Speaker 3 (meeting (1))

But I think...

0:13

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

really has to now,

0:15

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

we've done all the systemic stuff as much as we can,

0:17

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

it has to come top down.

0:19

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So unless it's requested,

0:20

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I don't really know what else we can be doing.

0:23

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

So me

0:27

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

and Chris have been doing lots of thinking and work because

0:31

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

you're not the only service who's,

0:33

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

we've got really excellent feedback from the training.

0:37

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

And that's been really consistent between me and Chris doing it and the

0:42

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

people who have trained as trainers.

0:43

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

The feedback is excellent.

0:44

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

And then it's actually them using it.

0:48

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

And we're finding that some people are doing the training.

0:51

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

And then there's actually been a few people that have come back

0:55

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

to do another lot of training.

0:56

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

And they've done it before,

0:58

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

but they've never put it into practice.

0:59

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

And they said, oh,

1:00

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

yeah, we're training Jersey at the moment,

1:03

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

all the social workers in Jersey.

1:04

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

But there's quite a few people who have done it.

1:06

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

And there's a couple that have,

1:08

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

you know, been like a bit like you,

1:09

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

like picked it up and run with it.

1:11

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

And there's other people who are like,

1:13

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

oh, yeah, no, I haven't used it.

1:14

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

I haven't looked at it even since the training.

1:17

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

And so we're doing quite a lot of work on kind

1:21

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

of changing how we roll it out and thinking much more about systemically and

1:26

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

implementing it.

1:27

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

So we're really interested to hear what you think about.

1:30

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

I'll show you what we've been putting together.

1:32

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Yeah, I do think so.

1:35

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

We've obviously done the training.

1:36

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I think what's been hard,

1:37

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

we obviously trained in October,

1:39

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Adopt North East,

1:40

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but because we don't actually do the children's plans.

1:44

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

because it has the local authority lead it so then we so

1:48

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

we have started doing refreshers within north east so for example Dave's

1:53

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

going in at IP tomorrow actually because he was supposed to go last Thursday and there wasn't

1:57

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

going to family find us because our family finding team is going to start going in at an earlier find so

2:01

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

when they have the emergency planning meetings they're going to go in there and start thinking

2:05

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

about

2:06

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

stay -in -touch plans with the hope of then taking a bit

2:10

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

of a legal right let's sit down and do the samsy tool yeah because then that is

2:14

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

the idea that's going to happen but one of the things what we've

2:19

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

been doing all that external work and then i feel like like we've been doing enough internally

2:24

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

to try and keep the social work that's like

2:27

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

along the journey.

2:28

S… Speaker 3 (meeting (1))

Yeah.

2:29

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

And I think some people,

2:30

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

because I'm finding them obviously going to lead it,

2:31

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

want to be confident in it.

2:32

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So it's definitely some people within our service who are confident to do it.

2:35

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Yeah. So Dave's going to do a refresher training.

2:37

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

It was either,

2:38

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

it was supposed to be last week,

2:40

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but either this week or next week,

2:41

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

basically, you go and do like a half day,

2:43

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

just use the tool with them,

2:44

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

get them more confident,

2:46

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

because they're going to be the ones talking to those workers through it.

2:51

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

We'll get lots of like,

2:52

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I think what we have started to get is,

2:54

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I can hear people on the phone now,

2:57

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

so even just yesterday,

2:58

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I could hear people like,

2:59

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

oh, right before we got a matching panel,

3:00

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

we need to do the sanity tool,

3:02

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

can we put some time in?

3:03

S… Speaker 3 (meeting (1))

So,

3:04

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

because we've actually like,

3:05

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I think we're changing the forms,

3:07

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

it's really clear that you've got to do,

3:11

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

even if you haven't done it before and the care plan's done,

3:14

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

you need to do it when a batch is identified.

3:16

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

so then so we're trying to do it at different points so do it obviously in part of

3:20

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

care plan and that's much harder at this point because we have less influence on that because obviously we're

3:24

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

not the local authority

3:26

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

But if we're going to definitely get them,

3:28

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

catch them between a link being identified and

3:32

S… Speaker 3 (meeting (1))

paneled,

3:33

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I think what the local authorities worry is is what we've come up with two very different plans.

3:37

S… Speaker 3 (meeting (1))

Yeah.

3:37

S… Speaker 3 (meeting (1))

And we're like,

3:38

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

well, that is a worry in itself,

3:40

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but then what's the evidence that's informed your care plan?

3:42

S… Speaker 3 (meeting (1))

Yeah, yeah.

3:43

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So we've had that sort of conversations with them.

3:46

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So then also we've had some CPRs come through with it.

3:49

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I haven't actually seen them myself,

3:51

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but with SAMC tool being used.

3:53

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I think what I've found is,

3:56

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

oh, we'll just use the idea of it.

3:58

S… Speaker 3 (meeting (1))

I'm like, no, no,

3:59

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

you're not using the purposes,

4:01

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

you need to use the tool.

4:02

S… Speaker 3 (meeting (1))

So one local answer,

4:03

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

oh, well, we might not go ahead with the licence,

4:05

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but we might just use the evidence around it.

4:08

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I'm like, well, that's not the point.

4:09

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

We're trying to provide consistency across the five LAs,

4:13

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

so it's not a full scored lottery for the children and families.

4:16

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So it has been,

4:19

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I think, I think the length of the tool is a barrier.

4:22

S… Speaker 3 (meeting (1))

Yeah.

4:23

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

i think if the two was shorter you wouldn't get

4:27

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

i think once people do it they'll get confident in it but i think if the two were slightly shorter

4:31

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

because you've got to think for some of them it's because they've got so many family

4:35

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

members they need to think about and i've said you don't need to do it on every individual

4:40

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

family but you can put a group of siblings together if they're going to be placed together and it's

4:44

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

a grandparent

4:45

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

you can kind of be creative with it yeah and you can also copy and

4:50

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

paste that you can you do one general fancy and then just make tweaks for

4:54

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

each individual child potentially as well yeah i was saying

4:58

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

also what you could do

5:00

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

If you don't need stability,

5:00

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

you don't need to focus too much on the above it.

5:03

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Because if you're not needing placement stability,

5:04

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

you've got quite a clear answer that it's not ready for direct

5:08

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

contact.

5:09

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So don't need to spend reams and reams on that bit.

5:12

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

You need to put a plan in what needs to be achieved to get to move it forward.

5:16

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So we're just,

5:17

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I guess,

5:17

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

we're trying to help people just to think like...

5:20

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

be creative with it but also making sure they're using the evidence so yeah

5:24

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

yeah um so it has been yeah yeah

5:28

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but i'm hope it's really hard i feel like well we'll probably in the next

5:32

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

like few months start to say it really start to trickle through yeah i feel

5:36

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

the issue is if family had got involved because that was part of the plan for ages

5:40

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but it's just like anything it always takes forever to get it agreed to

5:44

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

then get it into practice yeah um

5:48

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

And obviously I've updated the paperwork,

5:50

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

which I was careful about when I did that because I didn't want to do it when we hadn't done enough training

5:54

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

for people.

5:55

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Yeah.

5:55

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Because that had to be that right balance of like making sure

6:00

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

the training's been done so that we've got enough people to...

6:03

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

And I'm going to ask each of the authorities to identify champions in each

6:07

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

of the teams, if they can,

6:09

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

to try and,

6:10

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

like, I think,

6:11

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I don't know, I imagine if you look at the figures,

6:13

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Northumberland will pay the social workers using it because

6:17

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

they're definitely starting to use it now.

6:19

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

Yeah, that's really good.

6:20

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

That's good to hear.

6:21

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

So,

6:22

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

and it's interesting that,

6:23

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

you know, you kind of,

6:24

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

like, maybe there's something helpful about doing it when they're using

6:28

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

it, so get them up and running and then...

6:31

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

the others might follow kind of a bit more.

6:36

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

It's interesting the length of the tool as well because we get that as feedback

6:40

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

sometimes.

6:41

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

It's interesting because I think it is something that it looks daunting,

6:44

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

but then the more you use it,

6:45

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

like we've had people come back and say,

6:47

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

oh, you know, I just did this in about 10 minutes.

6:50

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

They've pretty much gone...

6:53

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

It's big,

6:54

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but you don't have to be like,

6:56

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

you know,

6:57

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

you hit stability and it's a no.

6:58

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Don't spend loads of time on that area.

7:01

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Just go through it and be like,

7:03

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

these are the...

7:03

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

so just trying to get people's head around yes it is big but it doesn't you can just

7:07

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

see it say section yeah like it doesn't it's a working out we're

7:11

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

trying to explain it it's not an evidence yes it's your evidence but it's not what you're putting in court it's

7:16

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

your evidence yeah it's formulating work the evidence putting it in one place and then being

7:20

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

able to use it for your hair plans yeah but i do the new i

7:24

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

think it's just something new yeah yeah it's in the back lane for them think

7:28

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

about so even just last week so which was really good yes the south town side

7:35

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

which one was coming through and the service manager emailed us just,

7:38

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

you know, who can help?

7:39

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I've got a social worker that needs help to do in a care plan for a child.

7:43

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

ADM, so we're careful and CPR.

7:45

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So I CC Dave straight in,

7:47

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I was like, oh,

7:47

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

LinkedIn with Dave,

7:48

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Dave will put some time aside to help them do it.

7:50

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

And then Dave ran for social work,

7:52

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

oh, well, I don't want to do it.

7:53

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I've looked at it,

7:54

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I haven't done the training,

7:56

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

and I know it's clear,

7:57

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but, and Dave was,

7:58

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

so I emailed Carly,

7:59

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

the serviceman, she's saying,

8:00

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

look,

8:01

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

social workers,

8:02

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

you didn't look,

8:03

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

didn't.

8:04

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

But then you might need to have a conversation

8:08

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

if you wanted to use it,

8:10

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

because we're happy to help.

8:13

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

and do the tools and she had the training and then

8:17

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

she was told she had to do it.

8:18

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So then now, Daisy's been fighting in with her to do it.

8:21

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

But straight away,

8:22

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

she just felt too busy.

8:23

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

She just had to do it all the time.

8:24

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

And David was like,

8:25

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but you will need,

8:26

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

it's all,

8:27

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I know it's time,

8:28

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but it all feeds in all that stuff.

8:30

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

You're going to have to put the time in anyways.

8:31

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Yes.

8:32

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Because it needs to be a thought,

8:33

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

proof plan.

8:34

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So that's definitely like a,

8:36

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

oh.

8:41

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I find it's really frustrating.

8:44

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Like, yeah,

8:45

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

champion as much as I can.

8:46

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Yeah,

8:47

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

it sounds like you're doing a brilliant job because you're keeping at it.

8:50

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

The one thing that we're sort of in development is the

8:54

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

SAMC online,

8:56

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

we're waiting for,

8:57

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

it's taking a bit of time,

8:58

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

but we're waiting for Linkmaker to update.

9:00

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

On the shorter version.

9:01

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

Yeah, the shorter version.

9:02

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

So basically there'll be a sort of first page when you can fill

9:06

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

out, and it's got some cues and stuff.

9:09

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

You fill out which colour is.

9:13

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

each for each purpose for each of the people in the system and

9:18

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

that feeds through to the longer version so you can go back to it so you could do a

9:22

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

meeting in a chat and you could complete it with somebody and then you go and put the evidence

9:26

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

and support needs in afterwards so that might help just take down

9:30

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

some of the barriers because I think there's also the third thing we're experiencing is that

9:34

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

you know it's all been um adoption agencies that

9:39

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

we've

9:39

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

primarily that we've done the training for and then the trainers they're

9:44

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

then taking it to the local authorities and the

9:48

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

social workers for the child family social workers but there's

9:54

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

so much overwhelm in the system for one thing but also

9:58

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

they're kind of seeing it as an adoption.

10:00

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

tool and we want them to see it it's like this is for every part of the child's journey

10:04

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

that seems to be a barrier that keeps coming up we've been really clear about that

10:08

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

as well because i said like part of the thing what we were saying to them like once you do the training

10:12

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

more like within two weeks we really want you to have a go at case it doesn't have to be adoption

10:16

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

just think of anything it could be connected carers it could be you know children

10:20

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

care it could be one that you're just thinking about just give it a go because once you do one

10:25

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

you'll then assist and also if you want

10:27

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Dave will do it via Teams with you.

10:29

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

Yeah, that's really good.

10:30

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

You can sit and do it.

10:31

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

But they're not talking about the offer.

10:34

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Oh, really?

10:35

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

And then we send an email out as a reminder,

10:38

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

just a reminder that it's available.

10:39

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So again,

10:41

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I think people are in the training that are invested and passionate about it,

10:44

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but they get outside the training and they've just got such busy case

10:49

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

loads. And they might not have an adoption one,

10:51

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

so it just doesn't feel...

10:52

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

is relevant to them.

10:55

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I think that's what's really hard because,

10:57

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

you know, I think the teams that have taken up to Northumberland have child permanency teams,

11:01

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

so all the adoptions come through that team or the pre -birth team.

11:04

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So they're them two teams,

11:06

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

and Northumberland have always been one of the stronger ones in terms of the

11:10

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

stock in any way.

11:12

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So they're taking

11:16

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

it up.

11:17

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Gateshead's pre -birth team seems to be getting their heads around it more,

11:20

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but the rest of the Gateshead teams,

11:22

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

are like, it's not in a great place. I'll try and say it again.

11:26

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

That's, now I'm hoping Carly,

11:28

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

the service manager,

11:29

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

seems to be on board because it took a while you can get her to come to any of the meetings.

11:31

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Yeah.

11:32

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Because they've been under special measures.

11:34

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

They're now out of,

11:35

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

well, fingers crossed,

11:36

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I think they're coming out of special measures.

11:38

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Okay.

11:39

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Well,

11:40

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

so they've been hugely stressed and overwhelmed then.

11:43

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I think it's just like, yeah,

11:44

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Newcastle,

11:45

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

again, they've got a permity team,

11:46

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

so I think what you'll find is the permits workers will start to use it.

11:49

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Yeah.

11:50

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

And then, so some children come through that,

11:52

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but not all children,

11:53

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

because it's quite a big local authority.

11:54

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

But the ones that we're going to,

11:56

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

North Tyneside and South Tyneside and Gateshead are ones without

12:00

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

permanence workers.

12:01

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

But North Tyneside is a smaller one.

12:04

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

We have a link worker that's spent every Tuesday with them.

12:07

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So that should influence,

12:09

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

like, for all children,

12:10

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

for just adoption stuff.

12:11

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

And there's actually got some sticks in their office because it was in the same building.

12:14

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

But it's,

12:17

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

like,

12:18

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

this is, like,

12:19

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I guess they're just saying it's one little path,

12:21

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but actually it's quite a significant path.

12:25

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I think it has to come from ATMs.

12:28

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

If it's not coming from ATMs,

12:30

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

they're not going to get the shift because people are going to think how well it's going to get rounded.

12:33

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

And I think what people have got used to use is the tool that we had developed prior to

12:37

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

this. So they're seeing that as an easier tool because it's something new.

12:41

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So some of the feedback is more like the current tool.

12:44

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

We don't want to use that tool.

12:45

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Yeah,

12:46

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

it's a lot about change,

12:48

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

isn't there?

12:48

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Change,

12:49

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

yeah.

12:51

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

The more busy you are,

12:52

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

the harder the changes.

12:54

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

And it's interesting that idea that sort of trickle down,

12:58

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

that going from adoption to permanent

13:02

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

care. Because if then the people doing permanent care are

13:06

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

liaising with the people with sort of more like safeguarding or short -term care

13:10

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

and then be asking them to

13:15

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

do it, then eventually the whole system could be doing it.

13:21

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Yeah.

13:22

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

So I'll show you,

13:22

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

I'll be really interested.

13:23

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

If I show you what we've been looking at and see what you think,

13:26

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

because it's also thinking about,

13:27

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

you know, your SAMC champions,

13:29

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

like we could potentially,

13:30

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

there is maybe something about looking at it,

13:34

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

looking at meeting with the service managers and think,

13:38

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

or like, you know, the people higher up and thinking about how can this

13:42

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

all fit together and what can we offer?

13:50

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Every month,

13:50

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

every six weeks,

13:52

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

sorry, I'll have a partnership to stay in touch meeting,

13:55

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

and that concludes all the time for the five LAs,

13:58

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

and every single meeting I bang on about it,

14:00

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

it's part of where we're at with it,

14:01

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

what we're doing, this is what we need.

14:03

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

And obviously because we're piloting it,

14:04

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

one of the employees wasn't happy that we were updating the paperwork to reflect it,

14:07

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but what we need.

14:09

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

How can we review something if we haven't got any evidence to review it

14:13

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

on?

14:13

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

it has if we're not trying it actually using it i can't

14:18

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

say whether it's good or bad or what the strengths or what the challenges are

14:22

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

if you're using it and you seem to may actually be looking then that's

14:26

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

one thing but what we're not getting is enough use to be able to review it so i've

14:30

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

got another meeting next week there'll be doctor with them but it's just been like we've had them every six

14:34

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

weeks but well for over 18 months obviously we haven't been doing fancy for over 18 months

14:38

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

so they're all aware of the

14:41

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

frustrations around it yeah that and and then I think

14:45

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

that's one which again is good to hear like the cops have time saying we're like no you have

14:49

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

to use it yeah so we're hoping that will that will just keep it will keep pushing

14:53

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but if they don't agree to continue with it come September yeah then

14:58

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

it's yeah

15:00

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

and it's really hard. Yeah.

15:02

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

And maybe this is something we can offer so that it's not

15:06

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

just to try and implement it more.

15:09

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I've been there with the NHS,

15:12

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

trying to get people to use particular new paperwork

15:16

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

or start off using different assessments

15:21

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

at the very beginning.

15:22

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

And it takes quite a

15:26

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

lot of persistence,

15:27

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

making it a habitual part of the process.

15:32

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

really frustrating um i'm sharing does that come up

15:36

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

i'm just sharing that page so this is yeah this is

15:40

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

good so can you see my arrow there yeah yeah so

15:45

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

then so this is thinking about like the sort of these three pillars of so

15:49

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

we're looking at kind of maybe having

15:52

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

focusing our input much more on around sustaining

15:57

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

the model and identifying the SAMSI framework.

16:02

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

SAMSI guidelines are kind of part of the framework

16:06

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

around thinking about contact.

16:09

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So this first bit on the left is about implementation.

16:13

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So the workforce capability,

16:15

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

that would be like initial training.

16:18

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

and getting sort of knowledge and skills up so if everybody's

16:22

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

got the same language and everything.

16:23

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

The embedded practice is about looking at making

16:29

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

sure it's on agenda minutes,

16:31

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

on the people's agendas for different meetings and child

16:35

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

planning meetings and things,

16:37

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

making sure that it's part of the process.

16:41

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Some people are integrating the online SAMHSA.

16:45

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

into their it systems for example so it becomes much more it's

16:49

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

there and um to pick up and use um then

16:54

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

there's the system alignment which is all the bits about making sure looking

16:59

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

at you know which systems who at least needs to have an understanding of the samsi

17:03

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

framework um so like you know you legal people and stuff

17:07

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

like that so we would offer webinars and things for that

17:11

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

And then the actual sustaining the implementation

17:15

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

is really around having practice leads.

17:18

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

And we're looking at changing the...

17:22

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

that train the trainer model but have it instead having training

17:26

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

up practice leads in each area like service area so

17:31

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

that they would we would writing a

17:35

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

more manualized than what you've got for the train the training

17:39

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

package so it's a kind of video then an exercise and a video and the exercise but

17:45

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

it means that one of the problems is I think is that you can train up lots of people

17:49

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

and unless you have a train

17:50

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

they train the trainers,

17:51

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

it's not easy to capture new people coming

17:55

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

in, people relieving and coming in.

17:58

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So we're looking at having the practice leads,

18:01

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

being able to lead this much more manualised model

18:05

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

of training.

18:06

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So their role would

18:10

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

be about training and development,

18:11

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but it would also be about offering supervision support and making

18:16

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

sure that...

18:17

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

that it's all embedded in that in the sort of processes

18:21

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

and like very much like what you're doing just now but they would be in the

18:25

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

um actually in things so thinking like for what you your

18:30

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

your team are really advocating about actually you do need people

18:34

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

in each of the practices so potentially we could provide support to

18:38

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

that practice leads those practices would feed into a practice lead like

18:43

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

locality group for peer supervision and also

18:46

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

gives us a way of saying,

18:47

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

like, we've made these changes to the tool.

18:49

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

You need to know about this.

18:50

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

This is new or this is new research

18:54

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

that's come through about contacts.

18:56

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So we would be a bit of a hub of information.

18:58

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

We'd also get some feedback about how it's going and can

19:02

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

problem -solve implementation or do that

19:06

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

case supervision.

19:07

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

There might be tricky ones and people are not sure what support needs

19:11

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

are required or whatever.

19:15

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

practice leads can learn from each other just to make it a bit more of

19:19

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

a sustainable model so we would think we're talking about going in more

19:23

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

much more um you know service manager level and proposing

19:27

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

this and then having a

19:30

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

you know, a consultation and planning meeting about how we implement it and then take

19:35

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

it forward.

19:35

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So for your service,

19:38

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

what we could do is just do the,

19:40

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

you know, the practice needs bit.

19:42

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

You could,

19:43

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

the trainer could still do the training,

19:45

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but the practice needs would have a role in that supervision support and do just a bit

19:49

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

of an extra level of training,

19:50

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

like looking at more like the case studies and things like

19:55

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

that.

19:55

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So I'm interested to know what you think

19:59

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

to that.

20:00

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

whether there's things missing or what the pitfalls might

20:04

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

be.

20:04

S… Speaker 3 (meeting (1))

Yeah,

20:05

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I think actually one of the things that I think,

20:08

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I guess if you're doing got champions

20:12

S… Speaker 3 (meeting (1))

for each service,

20:13

S… Speaker 3 (meeting (1))

it's just...

20:16

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I think the thing is getting the look authority to buy you in the first place.

20:19

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Yes. To kind of see it as a model.

20:21

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

If you were going to like a new look without having you laughing about it.

20:24

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Yes.

20:24

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

But I think actually having even just that like peer

20:28

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

supervision I think is quite a good offer I have.

20:30

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Just like because then people can come together and be like well this is what we're finding,

20:34

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

this is what's not working.

20:36

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

So I quite like that idea about the peer supervision part of

20:40

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

it. What we hope as well is that because you'd have a

20:44

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

practice lead in different parts of services,

20:47

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

then that would be good for him to think about the interface between bits

20:51

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

of service as well.

20:52

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

So, you know, between,

20:53

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

you know,

20:54

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

the local authority teams and adoption agencies,

20:58

S… Speaker 3 (meeting (1))

you know,

20:58

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

if you had practices from each,

21:00

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

then that can be helping think about,

21:02

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

well, how do you move cases from one bit of the service to

21:06

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

another kind of thing?

21:07

S… Speaker 2 (meeting (1))

Problem solver.

21:11

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Yeah, something like that side of it.

21:13

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I think because it is that,

21:14

S… Speaker 3 (meeting (1))

like I said,

21:15

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Dave's doing a lot of that and I'm kind of like one of the,

21:18

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

I suppose, Dave and me.

21:19

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

And then also Jade.

21:21

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Jade's led a lot of virtual memory box,

21:23

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

all virtual memory box stuff,

21:24

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but then we'll quite often do two together.

21:27

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

Like we went to the CathCast about three weeks ago,

21:30

S… Speaker 1 (meeting (1))

but it must be a lot more difficult when I watched a rare team meeting and did

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