P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT

Sep 20, 2026 08:18 · 24:12 · English · Whisper Turbo · 8 Speakers
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Then we begin.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Thank you so much Collins Watiema,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Comrade Collins.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Welcome to the interview and this
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
interview is a research interview.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Could you please introduce yourself?
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Thank you Kenya
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
for this opportunity.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
My name is Collins Watiema.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I'm a 30 year old Kenyan youth who
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
actively participated in the
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
uh john uh finance bill protests
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
uh in the recent years and uh
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
well i'm glad that uh i'll participate in this
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
uh interview to at least uh help you
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
out to the body of knowledge as far as whatever you're studying is concerned
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
thank you very much colin's and welcome again to the interview
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
title of this research is social media use on
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
x and political participation among activists a
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
case of the 2024 kenya finance bill protests in
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
nairobi and we go straight to the questions uh
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
i will ask 10 questions and one
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
final reflection and i may ask you probing questions
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
for each question
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Question number one is,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
can you briefly describe your involvement in the 2024
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Kenya Finance Bill protests and the role you played?
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S… Speaker 3 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Okay,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
yeah, so I believe it was in 2024
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
when the youth
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
and the country at large was a bit uneasy because
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
of...
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
of the raising cost of living and there was a proposed
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
finance bill that would not make the
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
lives of Kenyans any better rather it would have hardened the situation
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
and so we as patriotic citizens took
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
it upon ourselves too.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
to air a voice and to call out the
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
government on this particular matter.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And basically it was all about raising cost
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
of living.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
So there was a lot of mobilization for me as an individual,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
just like millions of Kenyans aired my grievances
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
through social media platforms and X was one of them.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
So I actively followed what other youth
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S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
have been.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
i also commented yeah and it was from there where mobilization
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
was at what was at peak so from the social media mobilization
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
we were able to agree that uh on this particular date which
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
was on 24th that we'd uh go to the street
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
of nairobi cbd where we'd
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
have peaceful protests and of course the protest never
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
turned out to be peaceful as we had anticipated because there was a lot of
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
collision between
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
us,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
the protesters,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
and the men in blue.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And it ended,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
it was really chaotic.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
We lost lives and there was a lot of disease.
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S… Speaker 5 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
whatever,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
destruction.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
But for all,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I actively participated in the demonstrations.
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S… Speaker 6 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Thank you very much,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
sir. Thank you very much,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
sir, for that answer.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And if I may ask the nature
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
of your involvement,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
did you get involved as an activist,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
as an organizer,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
content creator,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
volunteer,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
or participant?
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S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Well,
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S… Speaker 7 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I'll just say...
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Okay, an activist is a bit extreme.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And I'll basically say
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I protested as a patriot.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
As a patriot.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Who was calling out the government.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
As a patriot.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
As a patriot.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
So it means you are a participant.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And did you use X during
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
that time?
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S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Sorry?
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Did you post any content on X during that time?
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S… Speaker 5 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Okay,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
for me as an individual,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I'm not so good at posting,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
but on commenting,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I really commented.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Which means you participated.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
yes, yes.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I actively participated.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Both online and offline on the streets.
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S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
yes, exactly.
5:00
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Thank you very much,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
sir. And if I may ask also,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I know there was
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
a build up to the 25th of
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
June 2024 storming of Parliament,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
which was,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I think, the peak of the protests.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
which means there was a build -up towards that both online and
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
people calling for street protests a couple of weeks
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
before the 25th of June 2024.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
If I may ask,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
what was the duration of your participation both online and offline
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
during that time?
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Well, I'll say my participation was
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
full -time.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Because from the moment when the finance bill was proposed,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I exported it.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
That was a few weeks before 25th,
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S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
yeah? Yes,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
yes, yes,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
yes. So there was this online debate as to whether it
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
is a good document or it is not.
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S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
As public participation was continuing,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
most of the questions that were arising from the finance
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
bill were not answered.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Rather, the members of
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
parliament were really diverging from these critical questions.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Rather, they were just trying to sugarcoat things and
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
to give faults.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
analysis of the report and that denotes it well because there's a
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
common saying that they are no longer fools in this in this
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
era sorry if that is the harsh word but once
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
as as soon as we we spotted this
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
a lot of a lot of
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
things that were not going to ease in our lives.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
At that moment,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I became very,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
very active because I wanted to see what are other people saying about this particular finance
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
bill. And I was really curious.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
So when I say full -time,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I was actively on social media.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
For me as an individual,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I rarely use Instagram because I'm not a person who loves posting
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
or seeing maybe how people are posting their personal lives.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I'm not active on,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
let's say,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
maybe Facebook.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
To some extent I am,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
because you see that is a very,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
very, why do you use the social media platform?
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
People can exchange ideas.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
The place,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
or rather the platform that I use most is X,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
because in X there's a lot of sober discussions
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
as far as politics and governance.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Intellectual, intellectual,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
interconsistency.
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S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes, yes,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
exactly.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yeah, so on X we were able to analyze there was this
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
X live sessions where
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
citizens we used to to exchange ideas to
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
discuss even sometimes with prominent leaders and it was agreeable that
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
this was not the right way for
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
us as a country to go as far as that particular document is concerned and
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
you know it's very funny that just these documents
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
almost set the country into a blaze because
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
It is only this piece of paper or other piece of
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
paper that was really,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
really not sitting well with us as
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
citizens.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Thank you.
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S… Speaker 6 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Thank you.
8:29
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Participated here.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Thank you,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Mr.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Collins.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And so from what you have told me,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
what I'm getting is you were...
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
especially when it comes to the participation of both online
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
and offline,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
as far as the 2024 Gen Z protests
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
are concerned,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
you participated online by commenting
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
and then you participated in the streets up to around
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
two weeks before 25th,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
so within the month of June specifically,
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
June 2024.
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Were you active as far as from maybe
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
two weeks before 25th?
9:15
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I was active.
9:17
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Okay,
9:18
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
and that means your
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
activity was basically most commenting online and then
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
it culminated to you going to the streets on
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S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
25th of June.
9:33
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
and more to that,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I also had,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
like you call it,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
offline discussions,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
even with those who are unable to understand these documents.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
So there was a lot of civic education,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
which also actively participated.
9:50
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And you know,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
this civic education came through in areas,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
for example,
9:56
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
in marketplaces,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
where maybe you find a group of...
10:00
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
people just sitting and are discussing political matters and you ask them oh by the way what do you
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
take on uh what's your take on the finance bill maybe also
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
in uh in the matatus yeah yes
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
yes yes yes yes and uh what what came
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
out as as an agreeable term as
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
far as that time is concerned in relation to the finance bill was reject finance bill
10:28
S… Speaker 6 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Thank you so much.
10:29
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
This word reject finance bill,
10:30
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
reject finance bill 2024,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
was something that was like a code.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Let's say once we've had discussions and
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
you feel like these people are truly not in agreement with this finance bill,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
we'll just say reject finance bill and everybody will,
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
or rather majority will just echo it back.
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Reject finance bill and that is how it became a slogan that
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S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
was actively used in that.
10:57
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yeah, and I remember it became a hashtag at the end of the day.
11:01
S… Speaker 6 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Thank you so much.
11:02
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes,
11:02
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
yes, yes.
11:03
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
It became a hashtag,
11:06
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
right? Yes,
11:08
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
yes, yes.
11:08
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Thank you,
11:09
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
sir. So I'd like to move to the next question,
11:11
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
and I think that's enough of the first question.
11:14
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Maybe we'll now keep the other questions a
11:18
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
bit to brief answers so that we move to
11:23
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
the next questions.
11:26
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Question two.
11:27
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
How did you use X during the June 2024 protests and
11:31
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
what motivated your engagement?
11:33
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Okay,
11:38
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
go on.
11:38
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
So I personally
11:42
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
used X as a tracking platform.
11:46
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes.
11:47
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Because you see,
11:49
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
sometimes people are being abducted and sometimes in
11:53
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
some areas.
11:54
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
there was a lot of police brutality yes so
11:59
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
X was the platform that will give us
12:03
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
updates uh yeah live updates of uh
12:07
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
different areas because let's say along picker road maybe there is
12:11
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
there's a lot of brutality that is taking place yeah people will take
12:15
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
photos and videos and they will post yeah okay yeah let's say maybe
12:19
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
uh people in on gatarongai have been attacked and there's a lot of shooting people
12:23
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
have lost lives yeah and maybe it is uh it is let's
12:27
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
say they've counted let's say maybe nine bodies
12:32
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
yeah and maybe the media is reporting that it's only two people rather than the government
12:36
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
is saying it's two people yeah so it was it was a platform that
12:40
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
personally i used for tracking this yes because as
12:44
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
as a as a patriot like i earlier mentioned yeah it
12:49
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
is my it is my responsibility to ensure that i
12:53
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
am safe in this country and everyone else is safe one last loss is
12:57
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
is one too many yes yeah so if we not
13:01
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
have used x then we wouldn't have known to what extent yeah
13:05
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
uh these protests had gotten to and you see it
13:10
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
also acted as a provocation
13:14
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Because if people are fighting for the rights of Kenyans in a particular
13:18
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
area, while in another area,
13:20
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
people are just reluctant,
13:21
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
we see it,
13:22
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
of course, will naturally just cause that proposition.
13:24
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
For them,
13:25
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
also to see that they need to get down to the
13:29
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
rescue of the country.
13:30
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes,
13:31
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
yes, yes,
13:32
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
yes. And it was a place where even we'd...
13:38
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
We'd of course exchange ideas,
13:41
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
be it with the elite,
13:42
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
be it with the local Wanaanchi,
13:45
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
and so on and so forth.
13:47
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
So it was a tracking platform.
13:50
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And for me as an individual,
13:52
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I kept reposting whatever was shared.
13:56
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
But as far as let's say maybe me uploading.
14:02
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
was not something that I did.
14:05
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Because again,
14:06
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
you remember sometimes people are being abducted because
14:10
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
of their posts.
14:11
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Their posts and their activities.
14:13
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes,
14:15
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I have my friend.
14:18
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
There was actually a case where someone was abducted from church.
14:21
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
That was our church.
14:22
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yeah.
14:23
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yeah.
14:24
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yeah.
14:24
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
So we were just,
14:25
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
we had left church.
14:28
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I remember I had left church at around 1 p .m.
14:30
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yeah.
14:31
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Then in the afternoon service,
14:34
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
there was this gentleman who was leaving church and there was a vehicle that
14:38
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
was waiting out the day.
14:39
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
They just say hi to him and he's like,
14:42
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
oh, hi.
14:43
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And they come out and because he's near the vehicle,
14:46
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
they just grab him and they put him inside the vehicle land.
14:50
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
That's how he was simply abducted.
14:52
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
So for fear of such,
14:55
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
because at some point it also traumatizes you,
14:58
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I restrained myself from.
15:00
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
posting, but on commenting on other people's posts,
15:03
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I relatively did,
15:05
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
but very, very responsibly.
15:06
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Thank you.
15:07
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Thank you, Collins.
15:08
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And if you allow me to ask you very short follow
15:13
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
-up questions so that you also answer briefly.
15:17
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
From what I've gathered from you,
15:20
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
you used X to follow up on developments about
15:24
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
surrounding the bill and the
15:28
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
activities around the bill.
15:33
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
but you do not post original content on x
15:37
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
quite often did
15:41
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
you share any did you share any information on
15:45
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
x yes i did okay oh yes i did
15:49
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
yes uh i i okay
15:53
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
what what i did was uh i was commenting yeah
15:59
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Did you repost any information like reposting other people's posts?
16:03
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes, I did.
16:04
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes, I did.
16:05
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I reposted.
16:06
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I was a bit drawn
16:10
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
to a particular politician.
16:12
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
So I often...
16:13
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
uh reposted their their posts because to me it
16:17
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
was making a lot of sense in that particular yeah and did you did
16:21
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
you prospect in in discussions i had you mentioned like the x -spaces
16:26
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
did you prospect especially the x -spaces yes yes yes yes
16:30
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
okay yes there was a time the head of state the head of state had uh
16:34
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
had uh
16:36
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
had said that he wants to get the views of the youth in regards
16:41
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
to this.
16:41
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes.
16:43
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
So I participated in that.
16:45
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Okay.
16:46
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And you also mobilized others,
16:51
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
of course, and motivated them to join
16:55
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
the protest.
16:55
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Did you feel that as a civic responsibility,
16:58
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
as your civic responsibility?
17:00
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Did you feel it was your civic responsibility?
17:05
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Well, yes.
17:06
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Some people might call it
17:10
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
activism,
17:12
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
but for me it was much of standing
17:19
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
up to our rights as citizens because we have the...
17:23
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
the right to air our grievances and you see one thing that was
17:27
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
a bit conspicuous at that time was that there was that rigidity from
17:31
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
the government not to listen to the robust press
17:35
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
from the citizens they were very very willing to proceed with them with
17:40
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
the passing of that finance bill and that is actually what triggered most the
17:44
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
citizens to to attack the parliament
17:49
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes.
17:49
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And you see also during that particular period,
17:53
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
the head of state had actually dismissed those protests,
17:57
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
saying that these are just lazy people,
18:00
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
reckless people.
18:01
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
He had used some words which did not fit well with the youth.
18:05
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yet,
18:06
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
the youth were the human
18:11
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
resource that was used to execute this complaint,
18:15
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
which was not...
18:17
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Not an evil thing.
18:19
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Do you see that?
18:20
S… Speaker 8 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Actually,
18:22
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I remember the president and his cohort saying that these are
18:27
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
rich kids with big phones and they're
18:31
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
taking tea in Java and coming to the streets with big phones.
18:36
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
They're idle people.
18:39
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I remember that.
18:42
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Taking selfies and videos and trying to make them trend.
18:46
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Do you think that triggered the rage even more?
18:50
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes.
18:51
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes.
18:52
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And then, you know,
18:53
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
especially these days,
18:54
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
people are very,
18:55
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
very alert with what the government is saying,
18:59
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
doing, and even thinking to some point.
19:02
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Kenyans are really,
19:04
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
really interesting people because
19:08
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
people will have...
19:10
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
different opinions but in these different opinions they'll just have
19:14
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
one thing that unifies them sometimes it's codes sometimes it's
19:19
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
it's maybe it's maybe a joke or at that particular
19:23
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
time people had actually come up with these memes
19:27
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
yeah you see and of course they were trying to to paint
19:32
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
the the current okay the the present
19:36
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
state of the nation yeah yeah of course there was a lot of corruption yeah
19:40
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
there was a lot of abductions there was a lot of uh
19:44
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
uh very very annoying
19:49
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
spending by the government there was unexplained frequent
19:53
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
travels yeah there was also frequent travels yeah
19:57
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
exactly yeah so there was there was just a way how
20:02
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
kenyans were able to
20:04
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
to speak the same language and uh at
20:09
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
that time particularly it was uh through these memes and uh they were really really circulated
20:13
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
uh through x yeah actually
20:18
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
there was a lot of creativity even bearing the fact that we okay
20:22
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
i actually will come to that uh it's okay question about the names and
20:26
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
images uh sorry to interrupt you we have about uh
20:31
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
four minutes before this zoom call ends and
20:38
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I wanted us to use those four minutes to answer the next question.
20:41
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
There would be a point where we will talk about memes
20:46
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
and the images and all the slogans that
20:50
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
were used.
20:50
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
So question number three,
20:52
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
can you describe the discussions and debates about the finance bill
20:56
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
that took place on X during the protest period?
20:59
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Okay, I'll guide this question by asking brief
21:03
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
questions.
21:03
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
For example,
21:06
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
If you can describe the discussions and debates about the finance bill that
21:10
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
happened on X during the protests,
21:14
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
do you think there was exchange of ideas?
21:16
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes,
21:19
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
there was massive exchange of ideas.
21:21
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Especially through the X cases,
21:23
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
right?
21:24
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes.
21:27
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
According
21:31
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
to your opinion,
21:31
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
do you think there were debates and disagreements during those discussions?
21:35
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Massively.
21:38
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes, there were.
21:40
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
a lot of disagreements and agreements yeah so if you
21:44
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
can say like for example those who are disagreeing were most probably
21:48
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
those supporting the government and the bill and
21:54
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
okay okay you know you know disagreeing
21:58
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
and agreeing depends depends on whether you are disagreeing with
22:02
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
the protest yeah those who are disagreeing that that's not the right way to
22:06
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
go we should maybe air our grievances in
22:09
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
in a different way some were saying let the mps do their job we have sent the
22:14
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
mps to go and air our opinions with their constituents
22:18
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
yeah yes but you see the mps funny enough
22:22
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
and that is actually where it was at that point that kenyans
22:26
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
started sending greetings yeah with their members of parliament through their phones
22:31
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
you remember yeah
22:32
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes,
22:33
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
so there was a lot of different opinions.
22:36
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Some people were of the opinion that we do away with the
22:41
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
government completely.
22:41
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
There were some who were of the opinion that let's just...
22:47
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Give them another chance for them to correct the mistakes.
22:51
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Because there was at some point some retaliation from the government.
22:54
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And the citizens were like,
22:57
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
okay, let's give them space now.
22:59
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And some were also the idea that let's
23:05
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
reject this finance bill to some extent.
23:08
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
While others were,
23:09
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
let's reject this finance bill in totality.
23:12
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Thank you.
23:13
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And so what you're saying is there was information sharing.
23:16
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
There were diverse viewpoints.
23:18
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Exactly.
23:18
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And then,
23:19
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
of course, there was persuasion and influence through those discussions.
23:23
S… Speaker 6 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
And,
23:25
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
of course, constructive engagement.
23:26
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
All right.
23:30
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
I think that means the
23:36
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
discussions were fruitful,
23:38
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
according to you.
23:39
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Yes,
23:41
S… Speaker 2 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
they really were fruitful and informative.
23:45
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Thank you.
23:46
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
So I think our 40 minutes are over.
23:48
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
So I'll end this call and then begin a new one so that we can pick from
23:52
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
there. We will pick from questions.
23:54
S… Speaker 5 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Okay.
23:55
S… Speaker 5 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Okay.
23:56
S… Speaker 1 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
Thank you so much.
23:58
S… Speaker 4 (P5 - Part 1 - Collins Watiema - SAUT)
More thanks to you.

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