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I think one of the most empowering things we can do is remind someone else how important

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they are.

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If you're feeling like you're not making much of an impact or you can't make much of

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an impact, go talk to a nonprofit and help them be the best organization that they can

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be.

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And when they get there, when those nonprofits get to that space, they can then go talk to

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the corporation and say, we're a valuable partner to the things you need to get done

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in the world, right?

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We're valuable people in terms of helping you create the world that we all want to

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see and you're doing it together and collectively.

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So, I mean, what's better than that?

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Hey, dear listeners, we need to let you know that Kevin and Stephanie offer investment advice

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through Private Advisor Group, which is a federally registered investment advisor.

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The opinions voiced in this podcast are for general information only and are not intended

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to provide specific advice or recommendations to any individual.

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To determine which strategies or investments may be suitable for you, consult the appropriate

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qualified professional prior to making a decision.

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Now let's get on with the show.

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This is Take Back Retirement, the show that's redefining retirement for women.

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Retirement is an old-fashioned cultural concept.

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We want to reclaim the word so you can make it your own.

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I'm Stephanie McCullough, financial planner and founder of Sophia Financial, where our mission

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is to reduce women's money stress and empower them to make wise, holistic decisions so they

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can get back to living their best lives.

1:46

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Kevin Gaines is my longtime colleague with deep knowledge in the technical stuff.

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Investments, taxes, and retirement plan rules.

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He's a little bit geeky and quantitative.

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I'm a little bit touchy-feely and qualitative.

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Together, through conversations and interviews, we aim to give you the information and motivation

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you need to move forward with confidence.

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We're so glad you're here.

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Coming to you semi-live from the beautiful West Lakes Office Park in suburban Philadelphia,

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this is Stephanie McCullough and Kevin Gaines of Sophia Financial, an American Financial

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Management Group.

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Say hello, Kevin.

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Hello, Kevin.

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Today, we are talking with Missy Sue Mastel.

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She is a prominent financial strategist and transformational leader with over 30 years

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of nonprofit capacity-building experience.

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She has degrees in accounting, international business, sustainability, and theology from

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Georgetown and Oxford.

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Missy charts her audiences and clients on a path towards ethical change that we need to

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make in the world without sacrificing best-in-class financial growth.

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She is a frequent speaker with TEDx Talks and university lectures.

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Missy's goal is to inspire future leaders and drive transformational organizational change

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worldwide.

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Let's dive in to our conversation with Missy.

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Missy Mastel, welcome to Take Back Retirement.

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Thank you so much, Stephanie.

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I'm so excited and delighted to be here.

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Yeah.

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So let's start with this.

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Tell us, Missy, what you're doing these days and how you came to be doing it.

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Well, first of all, I just want to say I am so excited to be speaking with people who

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are talking to people, in particular women and organizations and things that have been

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that may feel not so confident or comfortable managing their money, right?

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And I'm applauding your audience as well for seeking out some good resources and some help

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to get into a better frame of mind about how other people are doing things and how we succeed

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even as we are looking to retire and are looking to move into other stages of our lives.

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So this is a wonderful organization.

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Great that you're doing this.

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Thank you so much for bringing this forward.

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It's so important.

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And I think particularly for women, we have a lot of hangups about money and a lot of hangups

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about what it means to be wealthy and what wealthy can look like.

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And I think so it's really important to have great conversations about these things.

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So thank you so much.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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So what I'm doing right now is actually sort of a, I can't even describe how on point it

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feels for me because for years I've been working with nonprofit organizations, which is a really,

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to me, important part of legacy building.

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And for 30 years, I've advised nonprofits in doing capacity building, how to be more than,

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how to think.

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more of themselves than society might think of them, which is a nice tie-in to people who need

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to learn more about money and how they can be more than they might have thought of themselves

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before. But recently, I started to take classes in sustainability. About two years ago, I started

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to take classes in sustainability. And I realized that the world is just not doing as well as we

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think it is, right? Even when we have financial wealth and what I call hyper-growth capitalism,

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I think is the term of the trade. People are making money hand over fist, but we're doing it at such a,

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we're plundering resources to do it. And we have a lot of people who think that that's okay and that

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balance can stick, but that balance doesn't stick very well. So what I've been doing recently is

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taking all that I've learned with nonprofits and trying to apply it to that sustainability problem.

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So if you're a woman or you're a mom and you're thinking about what the future is going to look

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like for you and for your children and for your grandchildren, we have to start thinking about

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the resources that we're using and the way that we're using them. The interesting thing about

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nonprofits and I think other, and people who have been financially overlooked, right? Is that they

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have more power than they think they do. Ooh, say more. Yeah. So what I've been working on is

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Mick is matching up organizations that actually do make a difference in the world with the people

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and the corporations that need that change and creating opportunities for them to work together

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to actually create the changes that we need to see. I call it sustained exchange because it really is,

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well, hinge for corporations and nonprofits and impact investors who are interested in building

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the adaptations that we need to see in the world. Ooh, there's so much there.

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The best way to think about it is if you look at the way, if you look at what's going on on the

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planet, right? If you think about how people are acquiring wealth right now, this hyper growth

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capitalism, there's no end that they're looking at, right? I've talked to maybe 500 CEOs and all of

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them say, I need to make more money so I can make a difference, but they're not really focused on what

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that difference is or how much money is enough, right? They're not asking themselves the big question,

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right? What does it mean to make a difference? What does it mean to have enough? And one of the

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things that we get really lost in the way the current capitalist system works is that we don't

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have an idea of what enough is. It's just more. For sure. Q3 over Q2, right? Or next year's returns

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better than last year's returns, right? Yeah. And that's exhausting. Right. Literally.

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Exactly. Absolutely. And what I really love about people who are taking on investing and retirement

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planning now and women and nonprofits is we can ask a better question. We can say things to ourselves

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like, hey, what do I really want to change here, right? Is water my issue, right? Is the global south

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something I want to make a difference in? Do I want to affect my community, right? What's important

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and more importantly than just what's important in a global, what's important to me and what's

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important to the people that I care about and I love, right? We think about this idea about having

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enough money to build these beautiful mansions on these beautiful hills, right? But if the world is

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burning around us, that mansion is a prison, right? We have to have balance. So we're talking to it.

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So what I like to think and what I'd like to introduce right now, maybe is this idea of women

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as impact investors. And I will say they are the best impact investors there are, right? They are people

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who understand what a collective community can do, right? The power of being in community, being together

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and doing things together and the power of the individual to spark the right flames.

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So I want to pick up on a couple of things you said. One is the idea that people who have been

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financially overlooked have more power than they think. And then the pushing.

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back on, oh, I have to have all this wealth so I can make a difference. So are you saying that

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someone who maybe doesn't consider themselves wealthy per se, because wealthy always seems

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like, oh, it's more than what I have, whatever level you might have. A lot of my clients don't

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think wealthy refers to them. But are you saying that those people can make a difference even if

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they don't feel like they're wealthy? Absolutely. And there's so many good ways and they can do it

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without spending a dollar of their own money, right? Okay. So one of the ways that we talk to

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impact investors is that they have to be asking the right questions. And asking the right questions,

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I don't know if you know this, but women say 21,000 words a day. Men only say on average 7,000.

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What? I know. It's true. Whoa. So women, if you are talking to

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other people who are in your circle, whether it's other women or at your lunch or whatever,

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use some of those 21,000 words to ask better questions about what you want and what you feel

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you deserve out of the society that you're living in, right? You have so many extra words.

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You're so much more comfortable talking. So one of the ways that we create impact in investing is by

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asking better questions. And you can use all the tools that you're learning here in the financial

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planning work that Stephanie and Kevin are doing with you to understand what those questions are.

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And some of those questions are the ones that you're asking yourselves, right? What does this

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get me, right? If I give you $500 or if I create an organization, if me and my group of women all invest

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$500 in your organization, what do I get out of it, right? And don't focus so much on the returns.

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Focus on what that organization's point B is. You want to align your values, right? So you certainly

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want to be able to get some return. But what you really want to do is be able to say is balance that

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return out with the impact that you want to have in the world. So you want to be able to tell the

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corporation and the nonprofit, whoever it is you're giving your money to, what is your impact that I

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am now a part of?

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When you were saying that you were talking with people who want to make a difference, but they

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want to accumulate more first, is part of that they're thinking they want to do this, but they

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don't know what a successful helping of a nonprofit would look like to them. So they have to think,

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so they think they need more money because they really haven't pictured what success, or I don't

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want to use the word success, but something but a productive valuation contribution, yeah.

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So the nonprofits that are working in the best, they have an idea of what they may want things to

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look like, but you're going to be better suited to ask better questions with the things that you

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know about what you want to see in the world. If you have time to serve on a board or a committee

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for a nonprofit, you can add more value than just your money, right? Those opportunities help to drive

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those nonprofits and those nonprofits to their best results, right? If they can accurately articulate

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the things that they want to see in the world, then they can, then you're helping them to be better at

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raising more money. And one of the things that I'm working on, which I think it's sort of like a no

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brainer, is how corporations can use their money to help nonprofits by creating, is how corporations can help

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nonprofits use the money that they might invest in them to build more impact in the world, and the

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corporations can take that impact in as part of what they're doing in the world. So we have these new, what

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we are trying to build is these partnerships between the corporations that you're investing in, and the

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nonprofits that they might work with, to build better impact. Why do we focus on corporations? Well, because

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they're some of the largest resource users in the world. And they're also creating the most wealth

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in the world. But as people, we want to see those corporations invest back in a planet that we can

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live on. And I'm a climate girl. That's just me. I have, I mean, obviously, I support a whole bunch

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of nonprofits. But right now, I'm really into climate.

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But there's a lot of different ways that corporations and nonprofits intersect on their values, right? Like if climate's just really easy for me to explain, because if a corporation supports a nonprofit who's building a bicycle coalition, let's say you have a nonprofit bicycle coalition, and that corporation is supporting that nonprofit, we're saving on commuting resources, right?

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Cars in traffic, all of those things that are annoying and are making our planet less livable. So it's very easy for corporations to do that. But you as the impact investor, you're the catalyst, you're the key. You're the one that says to the corporation you're investing in, what we want to see is not just, we don't want to see crazy hyper growth returns all the time.

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We want to see you investing in the relationships with nonprofits. And because you're the impact investor, you can talk to both types of organizations equally. You can tell your corporations that, and you can tell the nonprofits that you're working with.

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Another great thing you can do is to ask the nonprofits, how are they? Every nonprofit, because of what they do, just their mission in life is to create a better planet, right? If you're working with a nonprofit whose mission is not to create a better world, we've got a problem.

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But they all have something, some mission that's on point, whether it's environmental, or maybe it's a social good, right? Maybe it's creating communities, maybe it's empowering women, maybe it's youth and girls and coding, they all have a mission.

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And each of those missions intersects with something the corporations are doing, right? And something that, and as long as you're interested in it, you can ask those nonprofits to give you impact statements to understand what they want to do in the world, and bring that back to the corporation and say, we don't just want you to make better returns.

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We want you to make returns, but we also want you to take some of those returns and invest it in a world we want to live in, whether it's in coding or whatever.

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Can we stop for a sec maybe and dissect this term impact investor?

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Sure.

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Because it's perhaps maybe different than people imagine. Like they might imagine, I'll just pull out a name, right? Like Melinda Gates being an impact investor because she's got billions and billions of dollars.

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But how could I possibly be an impact investor when I only have whatever, a few hundred thousand dollars in my retirement account?

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Oh, so being an impact investor is about using your brain as much as you use it. It's an equal part, brain and money, right?

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So when you're investing in a corporation, you're asking them questions that make them think differently.

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So an impact investor is an investor who believes in the impact that you have on the world.

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Even if my impact is a small dollar amount.

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Especially if your impact is a small dollar amount, right?

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I like it.

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Because Melinda Gates, where she's not actually an impact investor, frankly, Stephanie, she's a philanthropist, right?

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So she's not really talking to corporations much at all about what they can do.

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Okay.

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But you, as somebody who is looking to invest in corporations that have returns, you're someone who is interested in the balance, the return and the impact.

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So that's what makes you an impact investor, is that you are interested not just in returns, but in a legacy of, again, a planet or a world that you would want your children to grow up in.

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I was sitting on talking to the legal head of a major Fortune 500 company the other day.

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And I said to them, they were on the phone and giving me all these reasons why they had so many shareholders and people lining up to be shareholders and they didn't need to talk about climate and they didn't need to talk about social and governance and they had it all on lockdown.

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And I said to her, I said, I hear you on what you're saying, but the fact is, I'm a parent, so I can't let this conversation go.

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And she stopped for a second and she said, I'm a parent too.

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And it changed the conversation, right?

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When you're talking, because no longer, there's a cognitive dissonance that's happening between people who go home and they want to raise their kids and they want their kids to be nice kids and they want their kids to be.

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have purpose right and they want them to be contributing to the planet and what we're doing

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in business right which is exactly the opposite we're telling our kids crazy things like you have

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to do better than your parents did i mean that's impossible at this point and do better meaning

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make more financial like make more money exactly right that's what we mean that's exactly right

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stephanie thank you so much that's precisely right we can't we can't ask our kids to do that we have

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to ask because first of all the planet can't support it and b it's an insurmountable task it's

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like it's herculean they can't do it the kids today they don't want they're worried about being

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exploited by corporations right so if you're a parent and you're investing in corporations

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that aren't thinking this way then you you're the catalyst you're the one that has to make that

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change you have to tell the corporations you're investing in these are important i don't want to

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be investing in corporations that are exploiting people for their work right when when a corporation

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has you you can see the stock market actually changing now ever so often right it does work

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on the pricing and the valuations of these companies but it's also working on what these

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corporations are doing to the planet and what they're coming out with and their sustainability

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reports and how they're treating their factories in the global south right in the philippines and in

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china and in india so we're seeing more and more of it and as the younger generation as as the stewards

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we are the stewards for the younger generation right because we won't be around forever yeah

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exactly and so we have to start training these corporations because we can we have to start

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training these corporations to think differently about what kind of planet we want to live on

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and be vocal about it yeah how do you push back i'm assuming you're going to push back

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on when somebody says how am i even going to get a corporation to take my call i'm just fill in the

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blank oh how can i make it i'm too small to make a difference so that's where the non-profits come

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in right so for your impact investing right i i'm aware that people feel like they're just like a small

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cog and you know maybe they have a few hundred dollars invested in a corporation or something

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like that but when the first thing this is kind of a let's call it a stepped process the first thing i

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would do is read their sustainability report right as you're looking at your investments see check to

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see are they doing anything you like in the world are they aligned with your values so that's the first

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thing and if they're not you might find a non-profit that is aligned with those values and might be a good

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partner and one thing i can tell you is that sustain exchange which is the company that we're building

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right now does that it looks for non-profit corporate relationships that make impact sense

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so i'm going to suggest if you're invested in a corporation and you don't know a good non-profit

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that could help them call me i can find one for you there is no corporation that can't be benefited by a

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non-profit partnership and relationship and then i guarantee the non-profit will take your call

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and they and you can start talking to them about what kind of impact they could have on this

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corporation and then you're collectively as we are want to do creating impact in that in that area

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does that make sense yes yes so you don't have to go at this alone that's the other wonderful thing

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is you don't have to do this impact investing alone there are a ton of other impact investors who

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are looking at non-profits and looking at collective investments if you're in a mutual fund you might

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find a mutual fund that does impact it you're one of their offerings might be an impact investing

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offering you could do that align yourself with and then you get to ask a lot of questions

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right of your financial planners ask them hey what kind of impact are we having here are we reducing

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child labor law work are we helping to create more agricultural sustainability right here's the

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thing about the climate and everything else we actually know the right thing to do right there's no

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new we're not waiting for the answers on how to build a better world we have them right we just need

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to decide to make them a priority and nothing says more about your priorities than where you put your

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money and your time okay now you just mentioned time and something that you and i just spoke about

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briefly before

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we went on the air is, okay, if our listeners are thinking towards, quote unquote, retirement,

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whatever that means to them, a next phase of life, maybe could be stepping away from a corporate job

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and not working, could be just some other type of reinvention. But it's not only about how you're

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going to line up your money, right? Yeah, I mean, absolutely. And I believe that here's the thing

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about your investors and all of the people who are listening. Whatever you've done at work,

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it may have been brilliant and wonderful, but now, now you can take all of that learning,

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all of the things that you've learned and apply it for the good of the next generation and the future.

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And a great place to do that is in nonprofit work, right? Those people really need to sit. If you

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worked in legal or finance, these board, you can sit on a nonprofit board, they really need your

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help. If you worked in market, I mean, it doesn't even matter what you did, but I can think of

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thousands of nonprofit organizations that can use your expertise just as it is, right? And for whom,

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even if you, some people even go and work in nonprofits, right? They become EDs or something

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like that, also an option. To take all of that collective learning, you now can apply it to all

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the good you want to do in the world. And frankly, when we talk about eulogies, and these are the

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things that people talk about, is those impacts that you've had almost after you've retired at work.

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Yeah, your legacy.

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Exactly. We want your legacy to be something that is meaningful and constructive. And imagine what would

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happen if each of us just found something meaningful to us and made it the best it could be.

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And it's not good, just good for the world, right? It's good for us as we, let's face it,

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we're all aging every day, right? And staying connected, having something that's meaningful,

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feeling like we're having an impact is important for health and longevity too.

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Exactly. And imagine if you take a lot of people who have felt a little overlooked and a lot of

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different organizations who have felt a little overlooked, like these nonprofits,

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just like some investors, they don't have any idea what their power is, right? The nonprofits don't have

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any idea that they're holding the, really the quality of the future of our existence,

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of the whole civilization in their hands. And you can help them unlock that by asking better questions,

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by integrating with their purpose and helping them to be better because of all the things that you can

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ask, right? That's where, if we want to look at Star Trek utopia world, that's what gets us there.

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A lot of people are talking about things like progress, but AI is not progress, right? It's replacement.

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We're just, instead of doing one thing one way, we're doing something another way.

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Progress requires us to look at what point B looks like. And I'm just going to say it again,

28:24

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point B is not you living in a giant mansion while the world burns around you, right? Progress is where

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we all have to get progress means collectively we get someplace together, right? And I love those

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pictures of the buildings that are all windows with the grass, the grass hyper environment stuff growing

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out of them, you know, beautiful, integrated nature with our needs for civilization, right? The arts

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communities, all of those things, that's progress, not this idea of capitalism to its, whatever the

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end point might end up being. So those are your options. That's what you can do with retirement that

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gives you power to create the world you want to live in and the world you want to pass on.

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Let's see, I want to go back to something you said in the very beginning, and I don't remember how

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you described it, and I apologize, but I wanted to hear more about this. You said, you know, in the

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beginning, you were helping nonprofits figure out how to be, this is my phrasing, more than they think

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they are, or something to that effect. How did you do that? What are you talking about? Where are the

29:42

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nonprofits not thinking? I want to hear more about this. Sure. So think about who starts nonprofits,

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right? Nonprofits are people who start missions, they see a problem in the world,

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and they want to solve it. And that's great. And what they will do is they will bring together

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groups of friends.

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