230913_0211

Jun 22, 2026 13:16 · 35:09 · English · Whisper Turbo · 5 speakers
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0:01
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
OK, how's it going?
0:02
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Yeah, not bad.
0:03
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
How's things?
0:03
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Great.
0:14
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah,
0:17
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
sure.
0:17
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah,
0:21
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I mean,
0:22
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
mainly sticking to football.
0:24
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
So,
0:25
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
yeah, I don't think there's too much that could be misconstrued.
0:29
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
0:31
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
0:33
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Is it sort of a freelance?
0:36
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Well,
0:37
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I do a lot of the music interviews,
0:40
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
like Roger Stewart.
0:44
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Roger Daltrey,
0:45
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
John Lydon,
0:47
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
so mainly things like that that I do for them,
0:51
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
you know, so for my football section.
0:54
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
So,
0:56
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
yeah, keeps me busy.
0:58
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I've written a few books on Celtic and I write for Nutmeg as well.
1:02
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I don't know if you know the fanzine,
1:03
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
the subscription only bookazine.
1:06
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Oh, yeah, I think I've got that one.
1:07
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
1:07
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
1:09
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
That's good.
1:10
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
1:13
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Well, do quite a bit of Celtic,
1:15
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
yeah, but,
1:15
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
you know,
1:17
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
cover other clubs as well,
1:19
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
but mainly Celtic,
1:20
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
yeah. We've written three books on Celtic and I'm working on one about
1:24
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Jock Steen at the moment,
1:25
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
so, yeah.
1:27
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Are you a football fan yourself?
1:29
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
1:31
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Ah,
1:34
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
okay. Aberdeen,
1:41
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
yeah? Ah,
1:41
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
okay.
1:42
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
1:43
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
1:51
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Yeah, I've just recently written a piece about Leeds.
1:55
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
It was when Celtic played Leeds in the early 70s and
1:59
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
it was a semi -final.
2:00
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
But it was a really interesting story because I'd spoke to Hugh
2:06
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
McIlvaney before he died.
2:07
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
So I got some good stuff from him for the piece.
2:11
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
But yeah,
2:12
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
fascinating.
2:13
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
That Leeds team in the early 70s were brilliant.
2:15
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
You know, the Don Revy era.
2:16
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Great to read about.
2:19
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
2:19
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Fantastic.
2:20
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
2:27
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Good stuff.
2:28
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Yeah. How's things at the moment?
2:30
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Do you get too many games?
2:30
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
2:46
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
2:53
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
2:58
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
3:00
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
3:03
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
3:03
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Yeah. Good stuff.
3:04
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Yeah. Do you get to see any local football where you are?
3:08
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
3:28
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah,
3:29
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
absolutely.
3:31
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
3:33
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Okay.
3:40
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Sure.
3:42
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
No worries.
3:44
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
4:02
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Is it next month?
4:03
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
They've not given
4:08
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
a date yet.
4:09
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I think I've just finished one on Bill Wyman.
4:12
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
So I've sent that in recently.
4:16
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
So I'll need to check the date on that for you.
4:20
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
But I'm not sure.
4:21
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
They sometimes have a few backed up in a
4:25
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
row, you know.
4:26
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
But I'll find out anyway,
4:28
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
for sure.
4:28
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Yeah,
4:30
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
if you just drop an email.
4:32
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
4:33
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
It's a monthly,
4:35
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
yeah.
4:36
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
They had Keir Starmer a few months ago,
4:38
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
actually.
4:39
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I think his team was Arsenal.
4:41
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
It wasn't one of mine,
4:42
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
but I know they did him.
4:44
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
So they mainly do music ones,
4:47
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
but I think they're looking to branch out into more kind of movie
4:52
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
guys or movie stars,
4:54
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
should I say, and politicians,
4:56
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
that kind of thing.
4:57
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
So they're trying to get more different.
5:00
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
different kind of people from different walks of life you know but certainly musicians
5:04
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
are a popular draw i think you know um i think i think probably
5:09
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
yeah yeah
5:20
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
yeah that was a good one yeah um
5:24
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
so yeah oh here he is andy hi how you doing yeah
5:30
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
not too bad we met briefly in edinburgh last year um at
5:35
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
the festival sorry we couldn't make a motion oh no worries
5:39
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
No, no,
5:40
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
it's good to see you this time for sure.
5:42
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I'll just get cracking Andy if that's okay.
5:46
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
So yeah,
5:48
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I've got an uncle who stays near Goodison and first
5:52
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I've seen them actually play against United and they won
5:56
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
1 -0.
5:57
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
It was the first time in 10 years that United had got beat at Goodison and big
6:01
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Duncan Ferguson scored.
6:03
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I remember it.
6:04
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Do you remember that one?
6:06
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
That was a big night.
6:06
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I remember that.
6:08
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
It was a night game,
6:09
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I think, was it?
6:09
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah, it was,
6:10
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
yeah. You're right,
6:11
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
yeah. Tell us about that,
6:14
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
but also just,
6:14
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I thought, I have to ask you about Big Duncan in general,
6:17
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
because he is a bit of a folk hero,
6:19
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
isn't he?
6:19
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Oh,
6:20
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
God.
6:21
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
We had this
6:33
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
disastrous time with Mike Walker
6:37
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
as manager.
6:37
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
6:38
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
And, you know,
6:40
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
how we survived relegation.
6:42
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
That was the greatest ever escape when people would say that,
6:45
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
you know, that 3 -2 against Wimbledon.
6:47
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
6:49
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Yes, how we stayed up that day is a subject of
6:53
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
a lot of debates.
6:54
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
But that was a poor team,
6:58
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
really, at that point.
6:59
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
And then we started the 94 -95 season
7:03
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
in disastrous form from memory.
7:07
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Mike Walker was still manager.
7:08
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I think we were eight games in without a win.
7:11
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
He got sacked.
7:15
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
And it was,
7:16
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
yeah, it was terrible.
7:18
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
And I remember,
7:19
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I think it was Southampton away.
7:20
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
It was around the middle of early October,
7:25
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
94,
7:26
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I think.
7:28
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I've got this right.
7:29
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
And we signed,
7:31
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I think, Big Duncan and Ian Durant from Rangers.
7:36
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah,
7:36
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
yeah. Together,
7:38
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I think.
7:39
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
And...
7:42
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
You know,
7:43
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
we'd heard about Duncan,
7:44
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
and obviously it wasn't the day when videos went round social media,
7:47
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
but you'd heard all the myth of Duncan.
7:50
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
7:50
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
And bear in mind,
7:52
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
you know, I was schooled in the tradition of the Goodison No.
7:56
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
9, Joe Royal.
7:57
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Oh, yeah.
7:58
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Their manager by then,
8:00
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
but, you know, Joe Royal,
8:01
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Bob Latchford,
8:03
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Graham Sharp.
8:05
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Yeah,
8:06
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
fantastic.
8:07
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Andy Gray.
8:07
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Oh, brilliant.
8:09
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
some big big figures if you like yeah and so Duncan was
8:13
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
kind of a return to that tradition yeah and yeah
8:18
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
It was,
8:19
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
you know, he just embodied the fight back and,
8:22
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
you know, everyone just completely bought into him from day
8:27
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
one.
8:27
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
8:28
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
And we just loved the fact that he was like,
8:30
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
you know, he'd fight you,
8:32
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
do you, he'd do anything for the cause kind of thing,
8:34
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
you know. Yeah,
8:35
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
yeah,
8:35
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
absolutely.
8:36
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
And also, I think he felt,
8:37
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I hope I'm not being disrespectful to your wonderful
8:42
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
nation, but I think he felt a little disrespected by...
8:45
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Scotland, I think,
8:46
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
to a degree, and the SFA.
8:47
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah,
8:48
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I think so.
8:49
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
One of the things I remember,
8:51
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
and maybe I shouldn't be admitting this,
8:53
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
but I will, I went to the lengths,
8:56
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Duncan went to jail,
8:58
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
because he went to jail when he was an Everton player,
9:01
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I think I'm right.
9:02
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah, I think it was then.
9:04
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I remember the incident,
9:06
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
but I think that's right.
9:07
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I'll check it for sure.
9:08
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
He'd already signed for us by that time.
9:11
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
9:12
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
And, or no,
9:14
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
maybe he, sorry,
9:15
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I think I may have got this wrong.
9:16
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Maybe he'd already been in.
9:17
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
9:18
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
And I'm going to get my dates
9:22
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
wrong here.
9:22
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I'll have to go back and check them.
9:24
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I'll check that.
9:24
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
9:25
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
The court case and him coming,
9:28
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
and then Barlini it was,
9:30
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
wasn't it, where he went to.
9:31
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
9:32
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I remember when Duncan was getting released from jail,
9:36
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
that was a big moment for Everton.
9:37
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I think we were ready to absolutely welcome him back.
9:42
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I think looking back,
9:43
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I think it's unbelievable.
9:44
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I don't know,
9:47
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
but it seemed harsh to me anyway.
9:49
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Anyway,
9:50
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I was working in Parliament at the time for an MP,
9:53
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
and I wrote a letter on paper
9:57
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
to Ming Campbell.
10:00
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
who was the...
10:01
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I don't know if I did it on Parliament,
10:03
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
but I probably didn't,
10:03
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
but I wrote a letter in the internal post in Parliament to Ming
10:08
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Campbell, who was the chair of the disciplinary committee,
10:11
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
that then considered whether Duncan should have any further punishment
10:16
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
when he came out of jail.
10:18
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
And Ming Campbell,
10:19
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I think, gave him a 12 -game ban,
10:21
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
and I wrote this absolutely...
10:24
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
brilliant that's that's fascinating yeah scathing letter yeah double
10:29
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
punishment and uh you know all of that and how outrageous and
10:33
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
i think it was outrageous treatment uh he'd more than served
10:38
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
his punishment for you know yeah and uh that
10:42
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
all built the kind of the thing that was all absolutely in a siege mentality
10:46
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
with duncan and um yeah
10:48
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
It's history,
10:49
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
as they say.
10:50
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Absolutely.
10:51
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Can I take you back to your first game,
10:53
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Andy?
10:53
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Can you remember when it was,
10:55
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
who the opposition was and who was playing?
10:57
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Oh,
10:59
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
truthfully,
11:02
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
no, because it would have been about 1973.
11:06
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
OK.
11:07
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
So I would have been two or three years old.
11:10
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
And so,
11:11
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
honestly,
11:12
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I can remember the kind of...
11:15
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I have a very dim memory of the kind of...
11:17
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
The experience of going up the steps and seeing that I've
11:22
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
got a dim memory of.
11:24
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
One of the games I do remember,
11:25
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
early games,
11:26
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
would have been Bristol City of Goodison
11:30
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
in about 1976.
11:31
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
My brother's eighth birthday and he had loads of friends from school
11:36
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
with him and I was there and I think we beat Bristol City 2 -0.
11:38
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
But the one from that era that really sticks in my mind,
11:42
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
it was a game...
11:44
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
against, I think,
11:45
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Sunderland and Duncan McKenzie was literally running the show like a
11:50
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
matador.
11:50
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I don't know if you have any memories of Duncan
11:54
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
McKenzie,
11:55
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
not Ferguson.
11:56
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Certainly know the name,
11:57
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
yeah.
11:57
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah,
11:59
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
he was a very flamboyant character,
12:01
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Duncan.
12:02
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Right.
12:02
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
He had done this sort of jump over a mini challenge for
12:06
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
one of the newspapers.
12:07
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
He kind of leapt over a mini.
12:10
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
He was a...
12:13
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
socks rolled down by his ankles.
12:15
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
He was a very flamboyant footballer.
12:17
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Well,
12:18
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
that might tie in with the next question.
12:20
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I was going to ask who your first hero was and did you get a chance to meet them?
12:23
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I would say it's Bob Lashford.
12:26
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Okay.
12:26
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
12:28
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
He, for me,
12:29
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
was my first absolute Everton idol.
12:31
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
And he was.
12:32
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
And it was because in 1978 he scored
12:37
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
30 goals in one season.
12:38
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I kind of loved him before that,
12:40
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
but that really then,
12:41
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
you know, I think the Daily Express had a challenge for,
12:45
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
you know, I think it was 30 grand for the...
12:49
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
a player who could score 30 goals in the All -First Division and Bob Lashford
12:53
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
scored a penalty against Chelsea at Goodison to get that,
12:57
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
to win that.
12:58
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
He was a proper swashbuckling,
13:01
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
old -fashioned English centre -forward and I did get the pleasure of meeting
13:05
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
him I think about five or ten years ago.
13:09
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I told him all of that and he was lovely.
13:14
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Lovely bloke as well.
13:15
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
13:15
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
What's the best goal you've seen live,
13:18
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Andy, in a match you've been at?
13:20
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
It could
13:37
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
just be a personal favourite,
13:38
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
but yeah, technically best would be fine,
13:40
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
just whatever.
13:41
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I remember Graham Sharpe scoring a goal against Spurs in about 1981,
13:45
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
which was a volley from the edge of the box.
13:47
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I wasn't at the second game
13:52
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
at Anfield where he scored a famous goal in a Merseyside derby,
13:55
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
which was another looping shot from the edge,
13:59
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
way outside the area.
14:00
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
The two goals that really stick in my mind are 1984
14:05
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
FA Cup semi -final at Highbury.
14:09
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
where Adrian Heath scored an extra time and that was like a
14:13
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
breaking of the dam because that got Everton to the first FA Cup final in my lifetime and
14:17
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I have to admit to encroaching
14:21
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
on the playing surface as they say I guess
14:26
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
the goal that a lot of Evertonians of my age would point to and I was there
14:30
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
again at this would be
14:32
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Bayern Munich at home in the semi -final of the European Cup Winners' Cup.
14:35
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
And Trevor Stephen running through on goal and putting away the third
14:40
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
goal, which took us to the final.
14:42
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
So that, yes,
14:44
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
that, I guess,
14:44
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
in terms of the significance of it and the occasion in which he
14:49
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
scored that goal,
14:49
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Trevor. Did you go away to Rotterdam,
14:52
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
the famous European occasion?
14:54
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Well,
14:55
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
we didn't miss a game that season.
14:58
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Okay.
15:00
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
and away all the Wembley trips we went on every single one
15:04
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
but I was 15 and there was no way my mum was letting me go to Rotterdam
15:08
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
on a school night but if
15:12
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I'm honest we wouldn't have had the money to do that so no
15:18
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I'm afraid we didn't get to Rotterdam but pretty much
15:24
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
We didn't miss a game.
15:26
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
We were in the family club.
15:29
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Everton did this for the
15:34
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
first time in my life in 1984 when we'd won the cup.
15:37
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
We got invited to Goodison to have a picture with the cup and the charity shield and everything,
15:41
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
which we did as a family.
15:42
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
And the next year,
15:42
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
we get invited back with the Canon League Division I Championship and
15:47
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
the European Cup Winners' Cup.
15:48
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I can remember my mum on the way on that Sunday morning saying,
15:52
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
are we going to have to do this every year?
15:54
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
And my dad said,
15:56
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
what do you mean?
15:57
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Anyway,
15:59
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
the answer to my mum was no.
16:01
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
It would soon all come to an end.
16:04
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
We were home and away.
16:08
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
And my family have been ever since,
16:10
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
to be honest.
16:11
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I've,
16:11
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
you know, I've...
16:14
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I've never been through a season where I haven't been to at least 10 games,
16:18
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
but it's ebbed and flowed a tiny bit just with my work.
16:22
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Yes.
16:22
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
In what way do you think the game's changed,
16:26
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Andy, from that period we just spoke about,
16:28
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I suppose, growing up in late 70s,
16:31
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
early 80s and so on,
16:32
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
to today?
16:33
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Just on a personal level,
16:35
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
how's the experience changed for you?
16:38
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
What's different?
16:40
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
In some ways for the better and some ways for the worse.
16:43
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
So I followed,
16:45
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
as I say, Everton home and away through the 80s through my teenage years and the treatment that
16:49
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
we experienced at times was appalling.
16:52
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
My mum wrote letters to pretty much every police force in England because
16:56
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
we would come back and say what had happened to us at these away games and
17:00
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
it was shocking actually.
17:02
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
And then Hillsborough happened.
17:06
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I'd been at a fourth round
17:10
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
FA Cup game at Hillsborough the year before the
17:14
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
1989 semi -final and I've been in those central pens in the Leppings Lane
17:18
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
and I often describe not watching a single moment
17:23
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
of the second half of that game because I have my eyes fixed on the back of my brother's
17:27
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
head because he was my younger brother and I was worried he was going to disappear under the
17:31
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
crowd.
17:33
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
You know, when Hillsborough happened,
17:35
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
we had a very clear understanding immediately what the
17:39
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
ground was unsafe.
17:40
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
Yeah.
17:40
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Policing football in that era was appalling.
17:42
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
So when you think about all of that,
17:46
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I mean, although it was joyous,
17:48
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
that kind of match culture,
17:49
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
as I described,
17:50
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
when you got those moments like the win at Highbury
17:54
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
against Southampton in 84,
17:55
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
it was also...
18:00
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
disgraceful really in terms of the general treatment and also
18:04
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
the kind of you know some of the incidents that you know that you witness so
18:09
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
yeah
18:11
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
So in some ways,
18:12
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
the game has moved on massively.
18:15
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Obviously,
18:18
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
as Mayor of Greater Manchester,
18:19
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I've come into contact a lot with Alec Williams.
18:22
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I don't know if you know Alec.
18:24
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Have you come across him?
18:25
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
He was the first black goalkeeper in English football.
18:28
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
He was keeper for Manchester City
18:33
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
in the early 80s.
18:33
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
And I remember him running towards the Gladys Street end in,
18:38
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I think it was 1980 or 81.
18:41
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
And just being on the receiving end of the most appalling racism
18:45
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
that you've ever heard in your life.
18:48
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
people with newspaper crosses that they'd set a light burning.
18:51
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I said to my dad,
18:53
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
what are they saying?
18:54
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
What are they doing?
18:55
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
It's my first experience of racism,
18:58
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I think, witnessing it.
19:00
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
It really,
19:03
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
you know,
19:04
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I found it deeply unnerving as a young...
19:06
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I was only 10 or 11 at the time.
19:07
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
So you think back to those type of incidents and you think,
19:11
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
oh,
19:12
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
God, you know,
19:13
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
the...
19:14
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
unsafe nature of the grounds,
19:15
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
the terrible policing,
19:18
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
the overt racism.
19:21
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
And you think,
19:22
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
well, we've moved on a lot,
19:23
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
haven't we?
19:24
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Things are,
19:25
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
the game is better in many ways.
19:28
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
But then on the less positive side,
19:32
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
something has been lost,
19:33
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
hasn't it, in terms of the way money and
19:37
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
sort of...
19:42
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
the commercialisation of the game has taken it away from people.
19:46
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I think that was worse a few years ago.
19:48
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
I think clubs have got better again at understanding and listening to supporters.
19:51
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Not always,
19:52
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
but there was a period in the early to middle years of the Premier League where it was
19:56
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
really bad, where it was a rampant commercialism.
20:00
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
But I think there still is a sort of a distance,
20:05
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
isn't there, between the very top of the game and those
20:09
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
who've supported it for longest.
20:13
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
But, yeah,
20:14
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I'm not one of those who just says it's all awful.
20:18
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
There are things that are really
20:22
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
positive, aren't there?
20:23
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Absolutely,
20:24
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
yeah.
20:24
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
One thing I would say is...
20:29
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
I don't think it's easy to be a young supporter in the way that it was for
20:33
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
me growing up.
20:34
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
That's true.
20:34
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
And I think the grounds are often full of people of my age and I don't
20:38
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
think they're as full of,
20:40
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
not just,
20:41
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
sometimes the youngest kids can get in,
20:43
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
but it's those teenagers I think can find the cost of football.
20:45
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
And I wonder whether that generation is
20:50
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
getting the same,
20:50
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
you know,
20:51
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
being immersed in football in the same way that we were and getting that raw experience
20:56
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
of it.
20:56
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
And I wonder whether that in time,
20:59
S… Speaker 2 (230913_0211)
We lose something because of that.
21:01
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
That's a good point,
21:02
S… Speaker 1 (230913_0211)
Andy. I would agree with that.

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