Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life

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S… Speaker 3 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

This is Philosophy Bites with me,

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S… Speaker 3 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

David Edmonds.

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

And me,

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Nigel Warburton.

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S… Speaker 3 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Today we're discussing a minor,

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S… Speaker 3 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

trivial, inconsequential topic,

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S… Speaker 3 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

the meaning of life.

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S… Speaker 3 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

It's a subject that threatens to descend into philosophical caricature,

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S… Speaker 3 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

the sort that might have been satirised in Monty Python or Douglas Adams.

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S… Speaker 3 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

But Professor John Cottingham of Reading University thinks that

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S… Speaker 3 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

the meaning of life is worthy of serious philosophical consideration.

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

John Cottingham,

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

welcome to Philosophy Bites.

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Today I'd like to ask you about a topic that is quite serious for

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

most of us, the meaning of life.

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

What do you think the meaning of life is?

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Well, I can't give you a quick one -sentence answer on that,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

but the topic's been very exciting to me because it

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

was a topic which,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

when I was undergraduate,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

was one of those that we were all told philosophy doesn't deal with.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

And one of the exciting things about the subject is it's become a much broader and

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

richer subject since I was a student,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

and the traditional grand questions of philosophy are

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

now on the agenda again.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

There's been a whole rash of...

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

material on questions like the meaning of life.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

The answer to the question is a complicated one.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

The main problem about human existence is its fragility.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

The projects which we embark on are constantly in

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

danger of foundering.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Because of ordinary contingencies of life.

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Because of death,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

for instance.

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I mean, that's the obvious fragility underlying everything,

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

that we're always going to die at some point.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Exactly.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

That's the most striking one.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

But illness,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

old age,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

infirmity.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Philosophers have often written as if...

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Human beings are autonomous,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

grand,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

self -sufficient agents who are somehow in charge of their lives.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

And then philosophy's job is supposed to be to map out the conditions for the good life.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Well, there's nothing wrong with trying to map out the conditions for the good

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

life, but there's more to it than that because we are dependent on these

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

contingencies.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

And so a meaningful life has to be one which is not just

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

rich in various ways,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

including enriching and valuable activities.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

but which somehow comes to terms with this fragility and

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

this contingency.

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

So you're saying that as human beings we encounter things,

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

obstacles to our projects.

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I might want to be an athlete and I break my leg when I'm 21

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

and it just is not possible.

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

So any mapped out plan for life that doesn't

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

allow for contingency isn't going to work.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

That's exactly right,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

yes.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

And the other feature of a meaningful life seems to me...

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

to be rather hard to specify,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

but it's to do with the moral dimension.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I don't think we count a life as meaningful if it's entirely

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

occupied with selfish or vicious activities.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

So we require our lives to have a certain sort of moral

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

resonance in order to count as genuinely meaningful.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Both those things I've mentioned,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

the contingency bit and the kind of moral resonance bit,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I think point us away from simplistic answers.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

For example,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

utilitarian answers,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

which, as you know,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

claim that everything boils down to pleasure or satisfaction.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Point us away from that and in the direction of something,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

to put it.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

loosely,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

something more spiritual.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

So questions about the meaning of life,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I think, are connected with grand traditional questions about

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

the place of spirituality in human existence.

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Could you give me an example of the way contingencies affect our projects?

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I will,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

and ways in which they affect even our moral projects.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

If we consider the case of a devoted moralist who spends all his life helping

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

others, he decides to build a hospital for...

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

lepers, let's say.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

He devotes vast time and resources raising money for this project.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

He works at it.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

He recruits people to help.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

But on the day the hospital is due to open,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

it's struck by a meteorite.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

So his project is in ashes.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Can we say he has had

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

a meaningful life?

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Well...

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

If we just define meaningfulness in terms of engaging

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

with worthwhile moral goals,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

then perhaps we can.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

But I think most people would say that there's a certain sort of futility

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

about that endeavour.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Now you could say with Camus in his famous The Myth of

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Sisyphus,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

one of the great icons of 20th century absurdist

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

philosophy.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

That's just the way it is.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

We roll the rock up the hill.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

You know, Sisyphus was sentenced to the endless task of rolling the boulder up

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

the hill.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

As soon as he's got to the top,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

it crashes down to the bottom again.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

He turns around,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

walks back down the hill and starts again.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Camus says in the last sentence of that...

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

We must imagine Sisyphus as being happy.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Well,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

there's perhaps an irony in that,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

or perhaps not,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

but it's certainly an absurdist vision.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

He's saying, really,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

human life never really succeeds.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

The rock's always going to roll downhill.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

We've somehow got to be defiant in the face of that absurdity.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I think you could live that way.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

You could just say,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

well, let's try and live as morally as possible.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

When we fail,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

when contingencies strike,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

we just walk down the hill,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

start again.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

But that would presuppose a very heroic temperament,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I think.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I don't believe that you or I,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

perhaps you could,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

but certainly not,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

and most human beings could live in that heroic

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

way in the face of contingency and absurdity.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

And it's that,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

the need for hope,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

that despite all our weakness and despite the contingencies

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

and fragilities,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

the good somehow is still worth pursuing.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

We'll still in some way have a hope of triumphing.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

It's that which leads us.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

towards the idea of spirituality.

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

So are you then saying that in the absence of hope that

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

humanity will save itself,

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

we have to look outward to God or some other life?

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Well...

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Perhaps I'm saying that,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

but I think we should beware of simplistic interpretations

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

of religion,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

which just say,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

well,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

we can't do it ourselves,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

so it's all going to be okay in the next world.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I'm certainly not advocating that kind of pie -in -the -sky approach.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Rather,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

it's this, that...

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Optimism is hard to warrant,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

hard to justify.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

We need something like the religious virtue of hope,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

and hope and optimism are different,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I think.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Hope is something which is a characteristically religious virtue.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

It's one of the three traditional theological virtues,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

faith,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

hope, and love.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

And its cultivation is to

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

do with systematic patterns of spiritual discipline.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

the great Western tradition of spirituality.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

The reason for moving in that direction is that we need

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

more than just an unreasoned or jaunty optimism.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

We need to cultivate in ourselves.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

the moral and spiritual basis for being able to live

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

in the face of absurdity and contingency and failure.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

And that's where the disciplines of spirituality come in.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

So spirituality is not just a matter of having metaphysical beliefs that

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

it's all going to be okay in the next world.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

It's a matter of the interior cultivation of certain kinds

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

of virtue.

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

And are those virtues reliant on the metaphysical element?

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Do you have to believe in God to...

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Engage in those sort of spiritual exercises which could give you the emotional

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

power to carry on in the face of absurdity.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Well, in my more recent book,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

The Spiritual Dimension,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I addressed that question,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

the relationship between praxis,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

spiritual praxis,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

and belief.

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S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Praxis being?

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Praxis being engagement in disciplines and

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

traditions of action and practice.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

For example,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

meditation.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

which are aimed at the cultivating of these virtues we've been talking about,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

such as hope.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Now,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

many people think that belief comes first,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

that in order to embark on a program of spiritual praxis,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

for example, you've got to first get all your beliefs sorted out.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Blaise Pascal,

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the great French philosopher in the 17th century,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

had a different view.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

He thought that you should embark on the praxis or the

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

practice first and the faith would

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

come later.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

And that seems to me the right way round.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

You can't secure your beliefs in advance

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

because the sort of things we're talking about,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

faith and hope and so on,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

come as a result of immersion in traditions of spiritual

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

praxis.

9:07

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

They come,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

as it were, after you've embarked on the path,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

further down the line,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

rather than being secured in advance.

9:16

S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

So if you were speaking to somebody listening to this and telling

9:20

S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

them you're looking for meaning in your life,

9:22

S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

what would be the first steps they could take to achieve that?

9:26

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Well,

9:28

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I'm not sure I would presume to advise people in general.

9:33

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

There are no doubt many paths.

9:35

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I think people do have to reflect on these issues of contingency.

9:40

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

They do if they are...

9:43

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

reasonably interested in ideas.

9:45

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I mean, I'm not saying that only people who are interested in the intellect and in ideas can

9:49

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

have a decent or worthwhile or meaningful life.

9:52

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

But for those who are,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

and that includes a very large number of us in modern,

9:56

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

educated Western society,

9:58

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I think we do have to reflect seriously on how human

10:02

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

life is limited,

10:04

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

how most of our endeavours are likely to be frustrated in

10:08

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

the long run.

10:10

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

and on the fact that we're not self -sufficient,

10:12

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

autonomous creatures.

10:14

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

In a phrase Alastair MacIntyre has used recently,

10:17

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

we are dependent rational animals.

10:20

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

He's taking there the famous definition of Aristotle,

10:23

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

man is a rational animal,

10:24

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

but adding that crucial fact,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

dependent.

10:27

S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Dependent on what?

10:28

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Well,

10:30

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

we didn't create ourselves.

10:31

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

We are dependent on...

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

a whole host of conditions that have brought us into existence,

10:37

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

whether you believe those are just natural chains of events or whether you believe

10:41

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

we are created as traditional religious views have it from some

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

divine source.

10:47

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

But whichever way you look at it,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

we are dependent on the causes that brought us into existence.

10:52

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

We're also dependent on others,

10:56

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

certainly as children and later as we get older,

10:59

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

and we have to live our lives against that backdrop.

11:03

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

So part of what I'm doing in the Meaning of Life book is to

11:07

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

try and push against what I think are very arrogant conceptions

11:11

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

of humanity,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

like Nietzsche's,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

for example.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Friedrich Nietzsche,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

the German philosopher,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

thought we could somehow create our own values by grand

11:21

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

acts of will.

11:22

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

It seems to me we can't create our own values.

11:25

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

We are born into circumstances which we didn't create.

11:28

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

We have to find value within.

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

a given cosmos,

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S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

not one of our making.

11:34

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

And so the first step towards meaningfulness is humility,

11:39

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

if you like, acknowledging the fact of that dependency.

11:42

S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I'd like to come back to the practical question though,

11:45

S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

because you're advocating more than a purely intellectual engagement

11:50

S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

with ideas,

11:51

S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

but saying philosophy should engage with how you live your life at

11:55

S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

the level of spiritual exercise.

11:56

S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

So I'm trying to understand what a spiritual exercise actually looks like.

12:01

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Right.

12:01

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Let me give an analogy,

12:02

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

and that's psychoanalytic praxis.

12:05

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Now,

12:06

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

a lot of analytic philosophers are very skeptical about Freud and

12:11

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

psychoanalysis,

12:12

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

and I certainly wouldn't want to defend all the details of Freud's

12:16

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

elaborate theories.

12:17

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

But one thing Freudian,

12:20

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

in the broadest sense,

12:21

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

thought acknowledges is that we are dependent.

12:23

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

We don't create our own minds,

12:27

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

our own cells,

12:28

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

but we are shaped and formed.

12:30

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

by things that happened to us long before we became rational, fully rational.

12:34

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

and that we need to understand this and come to terms with it,

12:38

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

and that the way to do so is essentially through a course

12:42

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

of praxis,

12:43

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

guided self -discovery,

12:45

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

that I take it to be the psychoanalytic program.

12:48

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

You see someone regularly,

12:50

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

you reflect on with guidance on your past,

12:54

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

and you try to understand yourself better.

12:57

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Spiritual praxis is actually somewhat similar.

13:02

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Augustine,

13:03

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

St. Augustine,

13:04

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

way back at the close of the Roman Empire,

13:06

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

talked about each person having to descend into the inner

13:10

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

self where truth dwells.

13:12

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

So religious meditation and the practices involved in that,

13:16

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

the programs of self -discovery,

13:19

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

are not all that unlike what goes on in psychoanalytic praxis.

13:23

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

A sort of triangle,

13:25

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

philosophy,

13:26

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

psychoanalysis,

13:27

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

religion.

13:29

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

traditionally has been thought of as a triangle of hostility.

13:32

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Most philosophers are very anti -psychoanalysis.

13:36

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Most religious people are often anti -psychoanalysis.

13:39

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

And indeed psychoanalytic thinkers,

13:41

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

many of them are against religion.

13:43

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I mean, Freud was notoriously critical of religion.

13:45

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

But actually,

13:47

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

I think there's a triangle of harmony there.

13:49

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

All three,

13:51

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

properly understood,

13:52

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

are engaged on this deeper.

13:54

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

traditional question of self -understanding,

13:57

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

of linking our theoretical beliefs with understanding

14:02

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

who we are and how we should live if we're to live meaningful lives.

14:06

S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

John Cosingham,

14:08

S… Speaker 2 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

thank you very much.

14:09

S… Speaker 1 (Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life)

Thank you very much.

Philosophy_Bites_The_Meaning_of_Life

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