HTB Wk4 Audio Only
Jul 05, 2026 13:30
· 34:55
· English
· Whisper Turbo
· 5 اسپیکر
یہ نقل آج ختم ہو جاتا ہے.
دائمی محفوظہ کے لئے بہتری →
صرف دکھائی دے رہا ہے
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
The reality about marriage is we will all hurt our partner in big
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or small ways,
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often unintentionally,
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and sometimes we aren't even aware of what we've done.
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But the hurt must be healed if our marriage is to flourish.
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And in this session,
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we'll be looking at how that healing can take place.
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
And anger will usually be our first reaction when we're hurt.
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While hurt is what we feel in ourselves,
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anger is what we feel towards the person who's upset us.
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Now, we want to make it clear,
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anger isn't bad in itself.
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It has a God -given purpose.
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It's part of our internal mechanism to signal something is wrong and
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that something needs to be sorted out.
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The adrenaline rush we feel is designed to spur us into action,
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but we can use anger wrongly in a number of ways.
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We want to look at two in particular.
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And roughly half the population falls into one category and
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the other half into the other category.
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We use two animals to illustrate two inappropriate ways
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of handling anger.
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Some people,
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when they're angry,
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are inclined to let you know it right away.
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We call them the rhinos,
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because a rhino,
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if it's provoked,
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is quite likely to put its head down and charge at you.
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When I was a student,
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I spent five months backpacking across Africa.
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On one occasion,
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together with eight other backpackers,
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we hired a driver called Joseph to take us in his Land Rover into the
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nearby game park.
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20 minutes after arriving there,
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Joseph spotted a rhino sitting in the shade of an acacia.
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We swerved off the road and drove up extremely close so we
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could take some photos.
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Joseph reassured us that if the rhino decided to charge at
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us, he could drive away much faster.
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Quite quickly,
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it became apparent that the rhino was not as pleased as we were about us
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being so close.
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Sure enough,
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this massive beast lumbered to its feet,
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lowered its head and started to charge at our Land Rover.
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Joseph duly accelerated away and,
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true to his word,
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we easily outpaced the rhino.
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That is,
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until a minute or so later,
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the Land Rover ran out of fuel.
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We rolled to a halt and turned as one to
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see the rhino charging at speed in a cloud of dust.
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Mercifully, it stopped in its tracks,
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just short of us,
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and then stood there snorting and shaking its head angrily,
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clearly trying to get us to move again.
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We sat frozen in our seats for what seemed like an eternity.
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Eventually,
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much to our collective relief,
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the rhino turned and trotted away about 50 metres,
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only to turn back and charge at us all over again.
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Eventually, after four hours of these mock charges,
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it started to get dark.
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The rhino,
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by now tired or bored or both,
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trotted off into the sunset.
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But once it had gone,
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Joseph himself trotted off in the opposite direction to get some more fuel,
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leaving the nine of us in his Land Rover.
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We had some great photos,
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but we were nervous wrecks.
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Some people act like the rhino when they're
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upset.
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That's me.
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Let me give you an example.
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Many years ago,
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when Nicky and I were living in Japan and Kirsty,
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our first child,
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was four months old,
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a bachelor friend of ours who lived four hours away in Tokyo invited
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us to stay with him for the weekend.
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Well, whenever we had done so in the past,
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it was always great fun and incredibly busy as he had amazing
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energy and was a non -stop entertainer.
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Well, on the Wednesday before we were due to go,
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I suddenly realised I didn't feel I could cope with a weekend like that
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because of feeding a small baby,
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being awake half the night and just feeling tired.
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And I told Nicky I thought we should call our friend and say we
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couldn't come.
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I,
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on the other hand,
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was convinced we had to go.
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I thought it was very rude not to at this late stage.
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And we had a really heated argument.
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And after we had argued backwards and forwards...
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It became clear to me Nicky really didn't understand how I was feeling,
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which really upset me.
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And as a result,
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I just completely lost it with him.
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And I remember the exact spot where Scylla was standing in our apartment,
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beside the basket where we kept our fruit.
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And I was so angry,
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I picked up the nearest thing,
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which happened to be an apple from the top of the basket,
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and I threw it really hard at Nicky.
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Unfortunately for him,
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we had just bought a whole box of apples,
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and they were arranged in a pyramid in the basket.
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And I proceeded to hurl them one by one across the room
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at him.
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I want to clarify,
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Scylla was throwing them really hard.
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I had to duck down behind the sofa to escape being injured until the basket
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was empty.
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Now, I know that sounds very dramatic,
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and I want to assure you I have never thrown anything else at Nicky.
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But my tendency even now,
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when I feel misunderstood or upset,
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is...
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to attack Nicky with my words.
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Other people,
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like me,
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respond in the opposite way to the rhino.
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They may hide or bury their anger.
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They may become quieter.
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They may withdraw or become cold when they're angry.
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And I can certainly identify with the first two of those unhelpful
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reactions when I'm angry.
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We call this group the hedgehogs because a hedgehog,
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when it's threatened,
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curls itself up into a ball and sticks out its prickles to keep its
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attacker at a distance.
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It's not that those who act like a hedgehog don't feel their anger,
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it's just they display it differently,
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perhaps by withholding affection or by suddenly developing
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very selective hearing towards their partner.
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And while Scylla's danger is explosion,
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my danger...
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is to hold anger or frustration or hurt inside.
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And Scylla has no idea how I'm feeling.
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Hedgehog behavior is no less harmful in a marriage than rhino
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behavior.
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And I've realized it's better to have things out in the open
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to express what I feel when I'm upset.
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And I've realized that going on the attack isn't a good way to respond.
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And I try now to explain more calmly to Nikki what
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I'm feeling when I'm upset.
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Rhinos really can learn to calm down and be more sensitive.
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It's not just couples with...
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opposite tendencies that have problems.
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If you have two rhinos in a marriage or two hedgehogs that can
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be problematic as well.
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Two rhinos have to learn to calm down while two
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hedgehogs have to learn to open up.
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So I'm definitely the rhino.
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
No, you're not.
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For a moment.
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So I'm definitely the rhino.
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Yeah.
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Definitely.
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I think I've mellowed slightly.
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That's still my tendency,
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though, is to explode.
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I was completely a hedgehog,
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so everything in me would want to avoid conflict,
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would want to just kind of escape from it or
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just not address it in any kind of way.
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And I don't think I saw how prickly that made me,
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but it definitely would.
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make me prickly about little things where and the funny thing is most of the time is
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it would mean that i would stop showing you love in the way that i wanted to
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be shown love so i wouldn't hold her hand when i was walking down the street and all that kind
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of stuff and in my head i'm like yeah she's gonna know that i'm not happy with her because i've held that
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back um which you probably didn't read that in any kind of way
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but it was my way of
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trying to communicate to you that I wasn't happy.
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We've definitely learned to argue.
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I think that was one of the really important things for our first few years of marriage is finding...
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a way to disagree in a way that respects each other and both works with our personalities.
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So we do usually have a little bit of space for me to calm down a little bit so I don't
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go full rhino.
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And also for you to process actually what you're thinking,
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your emotions,
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so we can come together a bit more calmly.
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And we can actually talk and say this is how I'm feeling,
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this is what you're thinking,
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feeling and what can we do about it.
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We want you to turn to the first
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conversation in your journal called Rhinos and Hedgehogs.
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Identify if you're more of a rhino or more of a hedgehog.
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And if you're not sure,
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ask your partner what they think.
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They may just have a better idea.
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Both
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rhinos and hedgehogs must learn to manage their anger properly.
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And if necessary,
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get expert help to do so.
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Uncontrolled anger has terrible consequences.
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And unless we learn to control the way we express hurt and anger,
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whether in response to big issues or small things,
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we can easily get into a pattern which is repeated again and
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again and it becomes a downward spiral.
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Hurt leads to anger,
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which can then lead us to want to retaliate.
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Hurt for hurt,
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rejection for rejection.
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We want to show our partner what it feels like to have been upset in this
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way.
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And as a result,
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we get into a downward cycle of mutual blame.
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This can then lead to fear.
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Fear causes us to withdraw emotionally and build
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a wall of protection around our heart so as not to be hurt again.
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And if we're like the rhino,
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our skin will get thicker.
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And if we're like the hedgehog,
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our prickles will get longer and somewhat sharper.
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This destructive pattern of hurt and anger and mutual
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blame fills us up with negative emotions.
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Anger must be managed,
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not buried.
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It's no good pushing the emotions down and expecting
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them to disappear,
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as the psychologist and marriage counsellor Selwyn Hughes said.
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An emotion is never buried dead,
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it is always buried alive.
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And this is a particular danger for hedgehogs.
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Buried hurt and anger impact every part of our lives.
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Our behavior can be affected.
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We may start escaping into work or drinking too much.
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It can affect us physically.
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We may not be able to sleep or eat properly.
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And there can be emotional symptoms such as low self -esteem,
10:28
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depression,
10:29
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or emotional shutdown.
10:30
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And people who are on the verge of separation often say words to this effect.
10:34
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I don't feel love anymore.
10:36
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In fact,
10:37
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I don't feel anything at all.
10:38
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I feel numb.
10:40
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This is hardly surprising.
10:41
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It's the physiological response to the unhealed hurt and negative
10:45
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emotions which have accumulated inside.
10:48
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And it means there's no space for the positive feelings of love,
10:52
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romance, affection and so on.
10:54
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And unless we deal with the hurt and anger at the root,
10:57
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we end up losing connection,
10:59
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which destroys our intimacy and potentially our whole relationship.
11:03
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The next conversation in your journal called Handling Anger will
11:07
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help you recognize how you typically respond when you feel hurt.
11:12
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And we'd like you to take a few minutes to fill in your answers to the questions.
11:16
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Now,
11:16
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you don't need to write too much.
11:18
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Be quite instinctive about it.
11:19
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And then discuss what you've put.
11:46
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Over the years,
11:47
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Nikki and I have talked to many couples whose marriages are full of
11:51
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unhealed hurt and negative emotions and who've thought there was
11:55
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no hope of reconnection and restoration.
11:58
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But we know the hurt can be healed and their relationship
12:02
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restored if they're prepared to lift the lid on it together.
12:06
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So we're going to look at how we heal the ways we've hurt each other,
12:10
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including hurt that may have been buried for days,
12:14
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weeks, months or even years,
12:16
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whether through an accumulation of small things or a massive betrayal of
12:20
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trust.
12:21
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We don't want to pretend that this is easy.
12:24
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Dealing with this stuff is messy.
12:26
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It's a bit like dealing with a blocked drain.
12:29
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My most vivid memory of a blocked drain was during an incredibly
12:33
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heavy rainstorm.
12:34
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The alleyway next to our house flooded because the drains from the church loos
12:39
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that run under the alley were blocked and needed immediate clearing.
12:43
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As the rain continued,
12:44
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our neighbor Derek and I took the lid off the drains that were filled
12:48
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right to the top,
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at which point the contents of the drain began to mix
12:53
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with the rainwater in the alley.
12:55
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It wasn't a pleasant sight or smell.
12:57
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We grabbed some drainage rods to try and clear it,
13:01
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but we quickly realized we couldn't get the right angle from above,
13:05
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which meant that one of us would have to climb down directly into
13:09
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the drain.
13:10
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Well, I was staring down into this murky,
13:14
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stinking water.
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And then before I knew it,
13:16
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Derek was in there.
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crouching up to his waist in it and pushing on the rods with all his
13:22
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strength at this underground blockage.
13:24
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After three shoves,
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there was a wonderful sound.
13:28
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First a gurgling that turned to a rushing noise and then developed into
13:32
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this incredibly strong sucking sound.
13:35
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The blockage cleared and the water flowed away really quickly.
13:39
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I hosed the alley down and I hosed Derek down and the crisis
13:43
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was over.
13:45
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Now, it would have been no good if Derek and I had just tried to
13:49
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mop up the surface water.
13:51
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We had to deal with the problem under the ground.
13:54
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And it's the same with buried hurt.
13:57
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We can't just deal with the symptoms.
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We have to tackle the underlying problems.
14:11
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We're going to look now at a process for healing our relationship,
14:15
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for keeping the drain clear or unblocking it if there's a backlog
14:19
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of unresolved hurt.
14:20
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The process isn't complicated,
14:22
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but it can be challenging.
14:24
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And as a hedgehog myself,
14:26
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my instinct is to keep the lid on and not address the issue.
14:30
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But I've come to realize that isn't any good.
14:32
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We have to address the underlying hurts.
14:35
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Otherwise,
14:36
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they build up and it's like the drain getting blocked.
14:39
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The process has three parts.
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First,
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we need to talk about the hurt.
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In the Bible,
14:46
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Jesus tells us very practically what we're to do if we're
14:50
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aware of having hurt or offended our partner.
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To paraphrase the Bible in Matthew chapter 5,
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he says,
15:00
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to you, leave immediately,
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go to your partner and make things right.
15:04
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And then a little further on,
15:06
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Jesus tells us what to do if we've been hurt.
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He says,
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if your partner offends you,
15:11
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go and tell them,
15:13
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work it out between the two of you.
15:15
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So in both situations,
15:17
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whether we're aware that we've hurt our partner or have been hurt,
15:21
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we need to take the initiative to bring it out into the open so
15:25
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that things can get healed.
15:28
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When we're both taking the initiative rather than waiting for the other one
15:32
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to make the first move,
15:33
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things can get sorted out amazingly quickly.
15:36
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However, we recognise that it may not be easy.
15:39
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It could be that we don't like confrontation and we want to keep the peace at all
15:43
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costs.
15:44
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Or perhaps we're afraid of making ourselves vulnerable by opening up to our partner
15:48
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and telling them we're hurt.
15:49
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Or it could be our pride or our shame that stops us admitting we
15:53
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were wrong.
15:54
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Or we're afraid of our partner's reaction.
15:57
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Any of these reasons can make us reluctant to take the initiative
16:01
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in bringing hurt out into the open.
16:03
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But whether it's...
16:05
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Big wrongs or small wrongs.
16:06
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When our partner has hurt us by being thoughtless or selfish
16:11
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or cold or unfaithful,
16:13
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the hurt needs to be addressed.
16:15
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And just as small stones eventually block a drain,
16:19
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so the accumulation of small hurts,
16:21
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if left unaddressed,
16:23
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can break a marriage.
16:24
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We want to give you an example from our own marriage that is relatively trivial on
16:28
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the scale of things,
16:29
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and certainly we have had to address much more serious hurt between us over
16:33
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the years.
16:34
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But we're using this one to show the effect of bringing things out
16:38
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into the open rather than allowing them to stay buried.
16:41
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Before we tell the story,
16:43
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first, a little bit of background.
16:45
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One of the differences between Scylla and me is that when we go out to see
16:49
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friends and it's time to go home,
16:50
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we have very different ways of leaving.
16:53
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My way is to say thank you and goodbye and then
16:57
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to leave.
16:58
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And my way is to start saying goodbye and then to begin to
17:02
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have...
17:02
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probably my best,
17:03
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most in -depth conversation of the whole evening.
17:05
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And I've discovered over many years of marriage that if we're to get home when
17:10
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we plan to,
17:10
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we need to start leaving about halfway through the first course of the meal.
17:14
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And one time we were at a friend's birthday party.
17:17
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It was in South London and it was a Thursday evening.
17:20
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It was about a 15 -minute drive from our home.
17:24
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And Nicky told me on the way there that the following day was particularly
17:28
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busy for him,
17:29
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so he wanted to get a good night's sleep.
17:31
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So we agreed that we'd make sure we were home by midnight.
17:35
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Well, knowing what Scylla's like,
17:37
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I decided to double the time it would take us to get home.
17:40
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So I initiated the process of leaving at 11 .30pm.
17:43
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I said goodbye and I told Scylla I was just going
17:47
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to get the car that we'd parked at the other end of the road.
17:50
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Well...
17:51
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I drove up to the house and double parked outside in this narrow and crowded
17:55
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London street and waited for Scylla to come out.
17:58
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Twenty minutes passed.
18:00
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Midnight came,
18:01
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midnight went.
18:03
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There was no sign of Scylla.
18:05
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So I reparked the car,
18:07
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not an easy manoeuvre,
18:08
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went back into the house and found Scylla exactly where
18:12
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I'd left her,
18:13
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still deep in conversation.
18:16
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Well, keeping a thick smile on my face so as not to spoil the end of the party,
18:19
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I said to her,
18:20
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I've been waiting in the car and it's now past midnight.
18:25
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At which point Scylla looked round at me and said,
18:28
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I didn't even realise you'd left,
18:31
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which rather added insult to injury.
18:34
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So...
18:34
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I told her I was going to get the car again,
18:37
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and quite soon,
18:38
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ten minutes at the most,
18:40
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Scylla joined me.
18:41
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And as we were driving home,
18:42
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she was in great form,
18:44
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chatting away happily about what a fun evening it had been.
18:48
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Meanwhile,
18:48
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I was fuming inside.
18:51
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I was trying to cope not only with my frustration that we were going to get
18:55
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home a lot later than we'd agreed,
18:56
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but also feeling very hurt that Scylla had totally
19:00
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ignored my need for a good night's sleep.
19:03
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As a typical hedgehog,
19:05
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I was trying to work out whether or not to say anything.
19:08
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And I can remember the exact place on the way home when I decided
19:13
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
it really wasn't healthy to pretend any longer that everything was OK.
19:17
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And Nicky suddenly said to me,
19:19
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
did you realise I was waiting in the car for you for more than 20 minutes?
19:23
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Well,
19:24
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
that really got my attention.
19:26
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And I asked him,
19:28
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are you feeling upset with me?
19:30
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He then told me that he was very cross and rather hurt,
19:34
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
that we'd made an agreement which I had totally ignored.
19:37
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Now,
19:38
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
when I heard Nicky describe how it felt for him,
19:40
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which he doesn't do all that often,
19:42
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I realised I had been really thoughtless.
19:45
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And so,
19:46
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
despite my strong temptation to make excuses,
19:49
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
I knew the best thing I could do was to apologise.
19:52
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
And straight away,
19:53
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
Scylla said to me,
19:55
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I'm so sorry for making us so late.
19:57
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Please forgive me.
20:00
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Soon as it was out in the open,
20:01
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I didn't find it difficult to forgive,
20:03
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and my feelings of annoyance and hurt evaporated much
20:07
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more quickly than they built up.
20:08
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So we spent the rest of the journey home discussing how we could communicate
20:13
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
more effectively in a crowd about when it's time to leave.
20:16
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
I think I knew the situation would happen again.
20:19
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
Indeed,
20:20
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
it has happened several times since then.
20:22
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
But getting those feelings out into the open,
20:25
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
describing to Scylla...
20:27
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
How I felt meant there were no negative emotions left inside.
20:31
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
The hurt and anger were dealt with.
20:33
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
And most of us hate confrontation.
20:36
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
But we need to be able to tell our husband or wife when they've hurt
20:40
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
us. So,
20:43
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
the first part of the healing process is to talk about the hurt.
20:46
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
We need to bring it out into the open.
20:48
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
The second part of the process is to say sorry.
20:51
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
Apologising involves taking responsibility for
20:55
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what we've done to hurt our partner.
20:58
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
And you'll know how hard it is to admit I was wrong,
21:02
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to say I'm sorry for doing this or saying that.
21:05
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
And I know for myself that my pride leads me instinctively to
21:09
S…
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start to make excuses,
21:11
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
to jump to my own defence when Scylla tells me I've done something that's upset
21:15
S…
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her. And I find it easier to swallow my pride and to say sorry when
21:19
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Nicky tells me how what I've done has made him feel.
21:22
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
When he uses I statements,
21:24
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
it helps me to see it from his perspective.
21:29
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
Taking responsibility and apologising effectively involves finding
21:34
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
out from our partner how serious a particular incident was for them.
21:37
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
It's discovering where the hurt comes on a kind of Richter scale,
21:41
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
where 1 is a light tremor and 10 is catastrophic.
21:45
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
So we can ask our partner,
21:47
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
is this a 2 or is this a 10 for you?
21:49
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
And when we're able to empathize with the extent of their distress,
21:53
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
particularly if it's a 9 or a 10,
21:55
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
it helps them to feel understood.
21:58
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
And that helps hugely with the process of healing.
22:01
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
Also,
22:02
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
when we say sorry,
22:03
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
it's important not to make excuses such as,
22:07
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
I know I was in a bad mood yesterday,
22:09
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
but you've no idea of the pressure I'm under at the moment.
22:11
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
A true apology doesn't make excuses.
22:15
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
When we say,
22:16
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
I'm so sorry I hurt you,
22:18
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
please forgive me,
22:19
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
I'm going to try not to do that again.
22:21
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
It's so powerful in a marriage.
22:24
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
As we said,
22:25
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
we've had much bigger hurt to deal with than the example we used earlier.
22:29
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk4 Audio Only)
And some hurt we've had to talk about had been buried for much longer,
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