HTB Wk2 Audio only
Jul 05, 2026 13:13
· 53:46
· English
· Whisper Turbo
· 8 Mga Speaker
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0:05
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
What do you think?
0:05
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
What's the secret to your lasting marriage?
0:06
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
A lot.
0:07
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I would say food.
0:09
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Having lots of fun together.
0:11
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Being able to communicate,
0:13
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
negotiate.
0:14
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Communication and dating.
0:16
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Lots of money and good sex.
0:18
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
That too.
0:19
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
You need some intellectual companionship,
0:22
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
fluttering of the heart,
0:23
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
tingling of the spine.
0:24
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Understanding and compromise.
0:25
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Good communication.
0:26
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Communication.
0:26
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Yeah, I would take communication.
0:28
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Understanding each other's point of view.
0:30
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
The secret is communication.
0:31
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I think communication is key,
0:33
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
dude. Talking,
0:33
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
communicating.
0:35
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I mean,
0:36
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
it's a big mystery,
0:36
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
actually.
0:37
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
It's definitely good romance.
0:39
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Speaker 7 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
If you don't communicate,
0:40
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Speaker 7 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
you don't know what the other thinks.
0:42
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
You can't think about what each other is thinking.
0:44
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
You have to talk to each other.
0:46
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Speaker 7 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
When you don't know that...
0:48
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Speaker 7 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
It's the beginning of the problem.
0:50
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We
0:56
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
all have a deep desire for a close connection with another person.
1:00
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
This is one of our most fundamental human needs.
1:03
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
But a close connection in marriage will only be achieved where there's
1:07
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
good communication.
1:09
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Nicky and I had been dating for about five months when he went away traveling,
1:13
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
backpacking in Africa while I had to stay in the UK and finish
1:18
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
my school exams.
1:18
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And this was in the days well before mobile phones and the internet.
1:23
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
So we had to write letters to each other all through that
1:27
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
time to stay connected.
1:28
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And even though we were apart for six months,
1:30
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
it was an incredibly important part of our growing closer.
1:34
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We learnt so much about each other as we shared our innermost thoughts,
1:38
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
our ideas,
1:39
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
our dreams and especially our feelings in those letters.
1:43
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
The strange thing was when we were both back in the same country but
1:47
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
in different cities,
1:48
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Scylla was in London,
1:49
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I was at university in another city,
1:51
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
we really struggled in our communication as we had to rely
1:55
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
on public phones.
1:56
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
So I was sharing a house with three other girls and the phone was right
2:00
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
at the bottom of the stairs.
2:02
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And there was this steady traffic of people going up and down,
2:05
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
overhearing everything I said every time I rang Nicky.
2:08
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And I knew Nicky was longing to hear me say all kinds
2:12
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
of intimate things,
2:14
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
like I loved him,
2:15
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I was missing him.
2:15
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
But that would have been far too embarrassing to say out loud with everybody
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
going up and down.
2:20
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I,
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
meanwhile...
2:22
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
was speaking from a public phone box in the street and I
2:26
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
was having to shove money into the box with this queue of other students forming
2:31
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
outside and occasionally
2:32
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
tapping their money on the glass if they thought that I was going on too long,
2:35
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
which wasn't ideal while I was trying to have this romantic
2:40
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
conversation with Scylla,
2:41
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
telling her how much I loved her and only getting quite perfunctory
2:45
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
answers from her.
2:46
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
So we regularly ended up those conversations with
2:50
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
either one or both of us feeling misunderstood,
2:54
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
upset and disconnected.
2:57
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And learning to communicate effectively is something Nikki and I
3:01
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
have had to learn ourselves and go on learning throughout our
3:06
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
marriage in order to stay closely connected.
3:09
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Take seven.
3:10
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Phones have really changed the dynamic of how you interact
3:14
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
because they're around all the time.
3:16
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I would say if there's one area where bickering continues,
3:19
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
it's via text message.
3:20
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Text message bickering is the worst bickering because it's so easy to misinterpret
3:25
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
what someone else is saying.
3:26
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Like the other day,
3:27
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I was late coming home from work.
3:31
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I was in the back of the car.
3:32
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
You gave me the ETA,
3:33
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
the estimated time of arrival.
3:35
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I gave him the ETA before we hit traffic.
3:36
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And I think it was 6 .15 or 7 .15 or whatever time it was.
3:40
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
It was 6 .12.
3:40
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And at 6 .15,
3:42
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
he's still not home.
3:44
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Yeah, so she texted.
3:45
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Well, the text message was,
3:46
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
you should have told me you were late.
3:48
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And I should have gotten the text at 612,
3:50
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
right?
3:51
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
611.
3:51
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
611.
3:52
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
When you were going to miss it.
3:53
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I think the problem with text messages is you don't understand the context the other person is
3:57
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
in when they're sending it.
3:58
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And you don't understand the context the other person is in when they're receiving it.
4:02
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
So you have no idea.
4:03
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I have screaming kids.
4:03
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I'm exhausted.
4:04
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
He was supposed to be home early.
4:06
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
You know,
4:07
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
you're really both pulling your hair out,
4:09
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
but you can't see the other person.
4:11
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And I do think that...
4:14
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
That screen of technology where you can't see the other person and you don't
4:18
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
know what they're going through is very hard to not be mean on
4:23
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
text. Out of that,
4:23
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I've sort of now put in my frame of reference,
4:26
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
if I can't end the text message without a kissy face emoji,
4:29
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I probably should not be sending it to my wife.
4:31
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Close
4:39
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
connection in marriage has a lot to do with the level at which we communicate
4:44
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
with each other.
4:45
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
There are broadly three levels.
4:47
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Level one communication is about facts,
4:50
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
passing on information at a superficial level,
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
such as it's raining,
4:54
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
the train's late,
4:56
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
we've gone into overdraft.
4:58
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
That creates a...
5:00
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Weak connection.
5:00
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Level two is a deeper level of communication and stronger connection
5:05
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
and represents sharing our ideas,
5:07
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
our opinions.
5:08
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
For example,
5:09
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I think the government should do more to protect the environment.
5:12
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Or I think you should look for a better paid job.
5:16
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Or I think we should spend time at home with the children this weekend instead of
5:20
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
going away.
5:20
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Level three is the deepest level of communication.
5:24
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
This is around our emotions,
5:26
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
our feelings.
5:27
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
When we say,
5:28
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I felt hurt by what your mother said yesterday,
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
or it meant so much to me when you spent time listening to me
5:35
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
about that difficult time at work,
5:37
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
or I'm feeling frightened that we're not going to be able to pay off our debt,
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
or I need you to tell me that I'm doing okay.
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And that's when we're talking about what's going on inside us,
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
when we're talking about our deepest needs.
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And that takes a degree of vulnerability and trust.
5:55
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We don't communicate at that level with just anyone,
5:58
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
but it's essential.
5:59
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We communicate like this with our partner because that's how we
6:03
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
build good connection and deep intimacy.
6:06
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
My wife,
6:08
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Dan, and I have been made a long time.
6:11
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
It seems an awfully long time.
6:13
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
The truth is,
6:13
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
it's getting on a half a century.
6:16
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
You can't be mad that long without going through tough times.
6:19
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And we've been through tough times.
6:21
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I think we've been through times where it seemed that it
6:26
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
was all over.
6:26
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I remember some years ago,
6:28
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
the kids were small.
6:29
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I was busy in the law practice.
6:31
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And Dan said to me one day,
6:34
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
darling, I'm not sure we're going to make it.
6:37
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And it was an incredible shock to me.
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And I said,
6:42
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
what do you mean?
6:42
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
She said, well, you're so busy,
6:44
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
we don't have time even to talk together.
6:47
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
See,
6:48
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
sometimes when we live busy lives,
6:50
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
we say yes to the whole world,
6:51
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
but no to those for whom we have primary responsibility.
6:54
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And I remember cancelling engagement after engagement,
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
and we spent long winter evenings in front of
7:01
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
a fire, talking.
7:03
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We talked about me being just too busy.
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We talked about...
7:08
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
our sex relationship,
7:09
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
we talked about money,
7:10
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
and it was jolly hard work.
7:14
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
But as we talked,
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
we began to warm towards each other and understand each other.
7:20
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And it wasn't just words.
7:22
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Diane would say to me often,
7:24
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
when you do that,
7:25
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
it's how I feel.
7:27
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And it was like a light bulb going on in my mind,
7:30
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Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
but I well remember those winter evenings.
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Of course,
7:36
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
communication is two -way.
7:37
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Effective communication is always dynamic.
7:40
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
It involves talking and listening.
7:42
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
It requires a response from the other person.
7:45
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
There's an ongoing flow and interchange.
7:48
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And in marriage,
7:50
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Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
our aim has to be to listen twice as much as we talk.
7:54
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And communication that's deep and personal is multi -layered.
7:58
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
It's not just about words.
8:00
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
It involves the warmth of our voice.
8:02
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
It involves our gestures.
8:04
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
It involves how and when we touch each other.
8:07
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
For example,
8:08
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
putting an arm around our partner when they're upset.
8:11
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And it involves our body language.
8:13
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Facing our partner when they're telling us something important and looking them
8:17
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
in the eye, show we're interested in and listening to what they're saying.
8:22
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
When we combine this responsive body language,
8:25
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
an engaging tone of voice and talking about our thoughts and feelings,
8:29
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
we create deep connection with our partner.
8:32
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We all have that longing deep inside us to be known by
8:36
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
another person,
8:37
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
to be heard and understood.
8:39
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
But that's not automatic in a marriage.
8:42
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
An article in a Sunday newspaper described the breakup of a celebrity marriage.
8:46
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And it quoted the husband as saying,
8:48
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
when we went to marriage counseling,
8:50
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I was shocked to find we'd never really talked.
8:53
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I heard my wife telling a complete stranger about feelings I
8:57
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
never knew existed,
8:58
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
and I heard myself doing the same.
9:00
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We could only communicate through a stranger.
9:04
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Two people can be living in the same house,
9:07
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
sleeping in the same bed,
9:09
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
yet if they don't communicate at the level of their feelings,
9:12
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Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
they can be like strangers towards each other.
9:20
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We've been married for 20
9:24
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
years.
9:25
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Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
No,
9:25
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Speaker 7 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
it's more than 20 years,
9:26
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
isn't it? Coming up to 22 years.
9:30
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And we have three children and a dog.
9:33
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Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Yeah, yeah.
9:33
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I was in the police for 15 years.
9:36
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Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
That's where we met.
9:37
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I joined a department called SCD10,
9:39
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
where I became an undercover police officer.
9:41
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I wouldn't talk about my work at all.
9:42
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Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
So I thought the way to deal with my family was to protect Liz from all
9:46
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
the stuff I would see,
9:47
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
the murder scenes I'd go to.
9:48
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
So when I got home and Liz said,
9:50
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
how's your day?
9:51
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I'd go, yeah, fine.
9:52
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
This is when it all started to unravel.
9:54
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And we went on like this,
9:56
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
not communicating at all,
9:58
S…
Speaker 7 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
really.
9:59
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
But it was all...
10:00
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
all simmering underneath,
10:01
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
this lack of communication and lack of understanding of
10:05
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
each other.
10:05
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And so the pressures of work,
10:08
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
the pressures of my lifestyle,
10:09
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
the pressures of our marriage status,
10:12
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
we were just about to explode.
10:15
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And then,
10:16
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
following the death of my sister and different stuff,
10:19
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
my heart went in spasm and having a heart attack and got
10:23
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
taken into hospital.
10:24
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And the one good thing that I was ever any good at was being a policeman.
10:28
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And I couldn't do any more.
10:29
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And it crushed me.
10:30
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
That's when we decided in St.
10:34
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
George's Hospital,
10:34
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Tooting, to firm up our separation.
10:41
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We separated and moved in with my mum and dad,
10:44
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
and Liz stayed in the family home opposite her mum and dad.
10:47
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And they hit rock bottom,
10:50
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
couldn't even breathe,
10:53
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
contemplating,
10:54
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
ended it all.
10:55
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Liz came round and knocked on the door and said,
10:58
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I still love the man I've married,
11:01
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
and I'm here until you find yourself again.
11:04
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And from that
11:11
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
moment, we started falling in love again.
11:13
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We learnt...
11:17
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
through that time that we really needed to work
11:21
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
on our marriage.
11:22
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I think it's been a process of us learning how to communicate
11:26
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
deeply,
11:28
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
not on the surface level.
11:29
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
It's actually that dedicated time to being present that really changed.
11:32
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I think it was gradual,
11:35
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
but I think it was putting space in the diary and making
11:39
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
sure that we kept on doing it.
11:41
S…
Speaker 8 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Quite often,
11:41
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
even now, we find ourselves saying,
11:44
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
just stopping for a moment and saying,
11:47
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We don't feel we've connected for a few days.
11:50
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We need to connect and we can recognise
11:54
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
now that we're starting to go off.
11:59
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And we just need to,
12:00
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
it doesn't take much.
12:02
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We just need to regroup and come back together.
12:07
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Every couple has to work out how to stay connected on a daily
12:11
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
basis in whatever way works for them,
12:13
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
whether that's through talking as they travel to work together,
12:16
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
communicating by text,
12:18
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
talking on the phone during the day,
12:20
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
or catching up when they get home in the evening.
12:23
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Now, we're not saying this always has to be deep emotional stuff.
12:26
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And for some people,
12:27
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
if they know that whenever their partner wants to talk,
12:30
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
it's going to be intense,
12:32
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
they'll avoid conversation.
12:34
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
But unless we tell each other what's going on in our lives and what's
12:38
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
uppermost in our minds,
12:39
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
we can so quickly drift apart.
12:42
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
It's only when another person understands us that they're really
12:46
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
with us.
12:47
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Effective communication draws us together at an emotional
12:51
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
level.
12:51
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We want you to turn in your journal to the first conversation,
12:55
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
a significant memory.
12:57
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Spend one minute telling your partner about a happy or some other special
13:01
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
memory, something that happened to you before you met each other.
13:05
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And as you're talking,
13:06
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
be sure to express what you felt as you recall this memory.
13:10
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Don't just describe the facts.
13:12
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Then your partner should say back what they've just heard.
13:16
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And not just the information in a factual way,
13:19
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
but reflecting the feelings that they've heard to show they've understood why
13:23
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
it was so special for you.
13:24
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Then swap roles.
13:51
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We want to look now at the importance of talking in particular.
13:55
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I wonder if you've ever stopped to consider what you talk about most
13:59
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
of the time.
13:59
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
When Stella and I are busy and under pressure,
14:02
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
we find we can easily slip into talking only about the mundane,
14:06
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
practical details of life.
14:07
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
For example, who needs the car that day,
14:10
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
or what time we need to leave to get somewhere,
14:12
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
or what shopping we need.
14:15
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And that's why date night is so important.
14:17
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
This quality time that we've scheduled in when we can talk at a deeper
14:22
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
level.
14:22
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And I only really feel connected to Nicky when we've had time
14:26
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
to share our feelings with each other.
14:28
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
But some of you may be like me and find talking about feelings
14:32
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
doesn't come naturally to you.
14:34
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And that could be for a variety of reasons.
14:37
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
For some people,
14:37
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
their culture doesn't encourage them to talk about their own individual needs
14:42
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
and longings.
14:42
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Or perhaps they never learned to talk about their opinions and feelings
14:46
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
as they were growing up.
14:48
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Or they may have been taught to hide them.
14:50
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I grew up in a home where there are no feelings.
14:55
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
There are facts,
14:56
S…
Speaker 7 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
right?
14:56
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
This happened or it did not happen.
14:58
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Like,
14:59
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
it is black.
15:00
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
black and white, but you get married and you don't realize that your
15:04
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
spouse can look at the same set of facts and perceive them very,
15:07
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
very differently.
15:08
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
have a set of emotions or feel differently about them and I had I had no vocabulary
15:12
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
whatsoever to deal with feelings at all like yeah I mean we actually
15:17
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
did get help in our second year of marriage around feelings
15:22
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
and conflict resolution because he hadn't really realized a
15:26
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
lot of feeling words I think that's fair to say that you had to really almost
15:31
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
kind of go through the list of words like
15:33
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Am I anxious?
15:34
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Am I fearful?
15:35
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Am I tired?
15:37
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Am I sad?
15:38
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I printed out a sheet of feelings words,
15:40
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
and it was like,
15:41
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
let's go through the list of feelings words.
15:42
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Are you feeling this?
15:43
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Are you feeling this?
15:44
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
What does this mean?
15:45
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And it was a whole realm of relationship that I had never
15:49
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
realized.
15:51
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
existed before.
15:51
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I think I'm quite in tune with how I feel.
15:54
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And you have an excellent vocabulary.
15:55
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And I have a pretty good vocabulary and so I have to be a lot more
15:59
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
explicit than I would be with a girlfriend.
16:03
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Like, I have to talk to you about my feelings.
16:06
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
You know,
16:07
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I wouldn't say that to a girlfriend.
16:09
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I would just say to a girlfriend,
16:10
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
oh, I was really frustrated about what happened.
16:12
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And they would just kind of automatically jump into,
16:15
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
you must have felt so annoyed or you must have been so frustrated.
16:19
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And with him, I'm like,
16:20
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I'm going to talk to you now about feelings.
16:23
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And you need to listen to them.
16:25
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I remember wanting him to come in and know I was upset.
16:29
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
He did not have a clue.
16:31
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I mean, I would be like,
16:32
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I haven't talked to you.
16:33
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I'm upset.
16:34
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Well, that's not helpful.
16:35
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Now I say, I'm upset.
16:36
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
You know,
16:37
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
he can't read my mind.
16:39
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Flagging and being overt,
16:41
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I think, has helped us at least about,
16:43
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I really have a problem here and I need to resolve it.
16:46
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We've created a diagram that lists some other reasons
16:50
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
why people find it difficult to express their feelings.
16:54
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Some think,
16:55
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I don't want to disturb the peace by saying what I really feel.
16:59
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Or they may think it's just too complicated or I may be misunderstood.
17:03
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Being on this course is about being in a safe
17:07
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
place, a good place to overcome these barriers and to practice
17:11
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
expressing your thoughts and feelings to your partner.
17:14
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
But some people don't just find it difficult to express their feelings.
17:18
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
They also find it hard to recognize what they're feeling in the first place.
17:21
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And if that's you,
17:22
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
we want to encourage you that change is possible.
17:26
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
In one of the continuing conversations following this session in your journal,
17:30
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
we've created an exercise for those who find it hard to identify their
17:34
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
emotions.
17:34
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
It's designed to help you recognise what you're feeling at
17:38
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
different times and in different situations throughout the day.
17:42
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
It will take courage to begin to articulate these feelings
17:46
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
to your partner if you're not used to communicating at this level.
17:50
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
But we know many people who've changed dramatically and marriages
17:54
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
that have become much closer as they've persisted.
17:57
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We have some friends called Nick and Alison who 25 years ago
18:01
S…
Speaker 5 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
separated and whose story is just that.
18:04
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I remember it was just so easy for us to get into
18:08
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
this place where we were saying a lot but not really
18:12
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
communicating.
18:13
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I think I began to confide in my sisters and close
18:17
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
friends rather than in my husband.
18:19
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
This began subtly at first to drive a wedge
18:23
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
between us.
18:23
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Yeah, our marriage collapsed because we failed to share our real feelings with one another.
18:28
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We came pretty much as close to divorce as it's possible to get.
18:32
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Yeah, and if you asked us what went wrong,
18:35
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I think we'd both have agreed it was our failure to communicate effectively
18:39
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
with each other.
18:39
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Yeah, it's a long story,
18:41
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
but after a pretty amazing turn of events...
18:45
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Things turn around and we made our minds up to give our marriage another chance.
18:49
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And today we are back together with,
18:51
S…
Speaker 7 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I think,
18:52
S…
Speaker 6 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
a deeper understanding of what it takes to stay connected.
18:54
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
When we got back together,
18:56
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I resolved not to have a thought life,
18:59
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
which was secret from Nick.
19:00
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
In the past,
19:01
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I used to dwell on the negative aspects of our relationship,
19:05
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
but rarely voiced my feelings.
19:07
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
It was like I was setting up a case against him without allowing
19:11
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
him to defend himself.
19:12
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We've become much better at recognizing when one of us is like brooding
19:17
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
over something and we persistently ask questions to get things out into the
19:21
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
open. I tend to have more dramatic mood swings than Nick,
19:24
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
and if I'm rather low,
19:25
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I find conversation difficult because I tend to shut down
19:29
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
emotionally.
19:30
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
And we have to work much harder during these times to keep
19:34
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
real communication going.
19:36
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Nick said to us,
19:38
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
All current wisdom on this subject stresses the importance of quality
19:42
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
time being carved out of hectic schedules.
19:44
S…
Speaker 7 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
But this,
19:45
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
in my experience,
19:46
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
only marks out the space.
19:48
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Effective communication must mean revealing all parts
19:52
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
of our lives.
19:53
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
In my case,
19:54
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
the parts that I'm well practiced at keeping hidden.
19:57
S…
Speaker 7 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
For me,
19:58
S…
Speaker 3 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
at least, it requires more than time.
20:02
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
So if you're married to someone who struggles to verbalize their feelings,
20:06
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
they're likely to feel exposed and vulnerable when they first start
20:10
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
to do so.
20:10
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
So be sure to help them to feel safe,
20:13
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
to open up.
20:14
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
They need to know that you're not going to get angry and reject or blame them
20:18
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
for what they reveal.
20:19
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Asking questions encourages them to say
20:23
S…
Speaker 2 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
what they're feeling inside.
20:25
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
My name is Sally.
20:26
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I originally come from Egypt.
20:30
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I'm Sami.
20:31
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
My family were originally Egyptians.
20:33
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
We were living in Sudan.
20:36
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
I've met Sami when I was 14 and he was a bit older.
20:40
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
She was so attracting her personality in terms of
20:44
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
just being herself.
20:46
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
Simple,
20:46
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
not complicated,
20:48
S…
Speaker 1 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
which I like that from day one.
20:52
S…
Speaker 4 (HTB Wk2 Audio only)
One of the things that would really hurt me is when Sammy says,
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