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You

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You

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Well, we can hear you.

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Clear?

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Yes, we can hear you.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

My name is Nolte Pumoy.

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I am a STEM intern.

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I think it will

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play a role

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in terms of

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creating an easy environment

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for all of us.

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Thank you very much for making time

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

a new party for us.

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This is actually

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a new party.

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What exactly is going on

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in this sector?

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Kenya Chamber of Mines

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can check if they are the ones

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playing the music.

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The host.

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Sorting out the technicalities

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of this. There is

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a wonderful

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spirit of music that has been

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going on, but

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finally, the music

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is down and the

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real music is about to start,

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which is the dialogue.

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The Kenya Mining dialogue.

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once again, thank you very much

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all of us for making time to be part

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of this space and this conversation.

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And as I was saying earlier,

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I think I was shouting too much

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because of the background music.

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We have a sector

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that has so much potential

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when it comes to contributing

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to the overall well-being of this

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country, especially economically.

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economically. Today,

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we want to start this dialogue

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to set the stage and the foundation.

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First of all, for people

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to understand what exactly is going

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on in this sector. How is it

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regulated? What are the challenges?

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And then in our subsequent

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spaces, we'll be able to go

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deeper and

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talk about

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the key issues. But today,

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we have all players

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on board. Talk about

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the government, which is very, very

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important. We have

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representatives.

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We have representation from the government. We have representation from the civil society space. We have representation, of course, from the chamber creating this space. We have representation from the miners themselves, which is also absolutely important.

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So everyone who needs to be here is here and we have Kenyans at large. Those of you who are curious about this sector and what exactly is going on and all this is to form a conglomeration and for us to push the mining sector forward.

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But today we are starting to set the foundation and thank you very much for being part of this.

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So without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, please help me welcome the CEO of the chamber, Mr. Brian Simiyu, for the next one or two minutes, he will welcome us and help us understand why we are here.

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And later on, he's going to be welcoming the chair of the chamber. Brian, the mark is yours.

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S… Speaker 4 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

I see Brian has been has been demoted to a listener that is grave mistake to happen to our CEO.

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

But I know shortly is going to be given the microphone, even as we saw that technicality out.

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

How about we have the chair himself? I know he's a little bit out of protocol, but you can have Dr. Kanyoru, who is the chair of the Kenya Chamber of Mines to help us understand why this dialogue is absolutely important and why at this particular time.

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

So, Dr. Kanyoru, are you able to unmute and proceed, please, sir?

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Thank you, Noah. And thank you, Kim, for joining.

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I want from this very early onset to recognize the presence of our Principal Secretary, the Honorable Hari Kim Tai.

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We are honored to have him in this conversation, inaugural conversation.

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And of course, I want to welcome, I can see industry prayer, civil society prayers.

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We are very, very grateful that you're here.

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Without further ado, mine is just to lay a background as to why we are here.

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And one of the things we are looking at is when we have a country such as ours, with the level of mineral resources that we have, then we start asking fundamental questions like what is it that we can do?

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Of course, we fully recognize that government takes the driving seat in terms of setting the regulatory framework.

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But I think all of us have a duty as patriotic Kenyans to then come in and make a contribution in whatever spaces we fit, whether we're in the civil society, in business management organizations.

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We are miners, we are mining communities or communities where people are doing actual mining.

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This we need to do.

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So the essence of the conversation tonight is to have, like Noah has said, hear the voices from different angles, so that in coming spaces, then we can ask ourselves, what is it that we need to do?

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But just to set the pace, I want to look at it.

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I just want to throw some figures so that we start thinking.

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When you look at history, you realize that there was a gold rush in Western Kenya in the 1930s going to the 1940s.

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And one stuttering fact is that in 1942, gold exports were the leading exports in this country.

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Fuck that.

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As of December last year, the national debt was standing at 12.3 billion shillings.

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Last year, among the leading five exports for the country, the top is tea, which earned this nation $1.5 billion.

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Put in context in our mining language, that is about 10 tons of gold.

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Now, this is a nation that does not only have gold, but has a host of minerals, you know, beautiful gemstones.

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We have rhinestone, we have copper, we have soda ash, we have gas, we have cotton, we have niobium.

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And all of the fractions, you know, peat, manual kipsies, 1962.

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If you prefer the bridges, it would not even require.

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Lots of people should wait on it.

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Either you can or pass, it can for�도.

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What just happened to you on the other side?

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most of other minerals so what is it that we can do to take this nation where we wanted to go so

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that kenyans can have a better quality of life and that is why in this conversation tonight

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

we are honored to have all of us here without further ado nor if you allow me i would want to

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

ask ti to say a word before then we go to formal sessions because we also don't want to keep

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

uh the honorable obvious here for too long thank you okay uh thank you very much chair as you rightly

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

put it i think um let's have the representative of transparency international and relating are you

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able to speak from where you are but when you're already on the platform and relating

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and relating because we do so it seems let me see there is there is a request but that is

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not and relating so i can't get hold of him uh but it's fine what you can do is that um we'll

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we'll get those uh pointers later on uh from our speakers okay i think no one and and the colleagues

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from the kcm and the other colleagues for joining a good industry players uh mine is to just uh

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appreciate the effort that has gone to organize this dialogue and we are here to support we are here

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S… Speaker 3 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

to share ideas and to ensure that uh the mining dialogues continue and is impactful it impacts our

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our mineral governance so yeah no allow me to end it there i think i lost you at some point

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

yes uh and i hope right now you're getting me clearly andrew yes i'm getting yes thank you perfect thank you

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very much and relating uh you know sometimes with our social media handles uh we we get to confuse because

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andrew's uh handle is andrew letosh okay so it's some sort of rebranding right there uh but uh thank you very much

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uh andrew uh andrew for saying that um ti is standing with us and all stakeholders in this particular

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uh discussion so without further ado i'd like us to go straight to our discussion and our our dialogue

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um i'm gonna talk about this evening i told you all stakeholders are here at the very top

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of rally overseeing everything in this country is the government of the day and uh they are critical

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when it comes to shaping policies creating the tone transforming the sector that's why with every

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government it has its own agenda when it comes into the office and i'm pretty sure the government of the

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the day has its agenda on in regards to the mining sector so right now i'd like to um invite uh the

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principal secretary in charge of mining in the country of kenya and what we're expecting from him is uh

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first of all to set the tone where we are as a country in terms of mining as a sector uh what are we

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doing wrong what are we doing right what kind of minerals do we have in this country i mean you

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ask a normal kenyan on the street what minerals do we have in the country most likely we'll say two or

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three and i'm pretty sure we have more than that in fact a study was conducted uh a while back to map

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out the minerals in the country it seems that particular report is not yet out in totality so the

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ps will also help us understand where the report is so ladies and gentlemen please help me welcome

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the principal secretary in charge of mining in kenya hondra bar henry henry kim tai harry kim tai my

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apologies when appears the floor is yours you can just unmute thank you thank you noah and uh let me

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also take this opportunity to thank the organizers of this dialogue i need that it has come

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right time and I was telling the chair this morning when we held our meeting that indeed

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this dialogue is long overdue. Let me start by just giving the highlight what the mining sector

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is all about. I want to say that currently the mining sector is one of those sectors that is

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key to the growth and development of this country. One is because of the resources that we have.

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Now you said it very well that if you ask anybody in the street and those of us who did geography

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we'll only talk about very few minerals. Among them is soda ash and of course we used to hear about

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the gold in Kakamega and that's why the famous name of Ikolomani. But we have done the country has

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done quite a lot. Number one starting with the legal framework. We amended our act the CAP 306

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in 2016. The act that we were using until 2016 was an act of about 1940 thereabout. So for a long time

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we have been using an act that has not served us very well. But since the coming in of the new act

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there are various regulations that have come to regulate the sector. And we have actually we are

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still even coming up with the latest regulations that we developed where the sharing the revenue

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sharing which came into effect on the 6th of January 2026. So we had to start the reforms from the legal

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framework. Align it to the constitution. That's key. And then now we are working on an exploration

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with two methods and the radio process where we want to find out the occurrence of these minerals. So we have

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discovered that there are about 970 occurrences meaning they are about 970 spots which if you go and do what's

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called the ground truthing by drilling and taking the samples to the laboratory you can easily establish

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what kind of minerals are these. So we have already undertaken that and that that report is available it is

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there. The fact that it is still uh being worked on because you've got to build data and give rights to

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uh the various uh agencies right now it was being conducted that exercise was being conducted by

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our the security team and then now together working with them now we are trying to see how do we share this

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data now. Some of it to bother security some of it requires to be commercialized so we are trying to

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where we have also done a lot of reforms of recruiting of staff for a long time we had stayed without

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staff so we now have staff that are able to work on the data uh geological data so that we can start

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commercializing this data. We have also done a lot of reforms in terms of licensing procedures and permitting

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uh for a long time as you're all aware we were in a moratorium period for about four years

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but that period of moratorium also we took time to work on the the aerial survey so actually we did not

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just have moratorium but there was an exercise that was going on the aerial survey that was going on

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meaning once you start opening now we have data we can share and we can use that data to commercialize

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and then we have also worked on other legislations number two we have uh the trying to look at how

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do we handle the additional miners so we have now come up with the cabinet number one decriminalize uh

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additional mining whereby it was allowed that they can continue doing their uh business without

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getting the permits so if the external miners are separate they can continue nobody can interfere with

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them but the small scale miners can now get permits and we have decentralized this uh permitting whereby we

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we have the county uh ethanol mining committee which then looks at the procedures

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so

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you

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requirements for giving the small-scale miners their permits to work within a certain area.

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So that has been undertaken, and I think it is yielding results.

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The State Department has also gone further to look at how can we put these people into

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a cooperative so that they can operate from an area that is purely gazetted for the

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additional miners and small-scale miners to operate from without interfering with the large-scale miners

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because we realize that there's going to be a conflict between the small-scale miners and the commercial miners.

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So that has been separated.

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So we have now also issued a lot of prospecting licenses to some of the companies that are asking to prospect for minerals,

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and this procedure has been simplified.

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I think the key thing is you need the landowner's consent.

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So the landowner's consent, once it's been given, you don't want to get licensed through the mineral report, which is advised.

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So we have done a lot of reforms in that sector, but I think the key thing that we need to look at is

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

the sector to move forward, all the stakeholders must come and must agree.

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One of the biggest challenges that we are facing as a country when we want to commercialize mining in the country is the resistance.

41:34

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

And specifically, not from the community, I can say, because the community starts by giving consent.

41:40

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

And the only problem that we have is we've seen quite a lot of interference now coming from our leaders,

41:52

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

especially political leaders, and not just any other political leaders.

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Some of them are actually elected members of parliament or members of the Senate.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

So you realize that they are now making it to be like to popularize themselves if they go against a company that has invested.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

You must also understand that mining is not just any other economic activity.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

It is capital intensive.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

It requires a lot of capital to start with doing exploration or, I mean, not exploration, but prospecting before you start doing extracting and exploration.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

So if the investors have put in their money and then here we come, we tell them that this is not the quantity, this is not how it's being done, that you have not been compensated fully.

42:47

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

So you realize that people are getting achitated.

42:50

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

They look at the value of the gold, what they have within their land, and they are being told that instead of you giving the permit,

42:58

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

which, I mean, the consent to this investor, big investor, then you can do it yourself.

43:05

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Yet when you look at the investment they want to do is based on the knowledge of, I mean, a prospecting that was done by this investor who has pumped in a lot of money

43:16

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

and has given us a cost within a certain area, we expect to get this quantity.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

For example, I'll give the story of Shanta.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Shanta has been prospecting for quite a long time in this country, about five to eight years.

43:35

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

In fact, it started quite a long time, but it was, they bought the prospecting license from another company.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

They continued doing prospecting.

43:52

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

In Ramula, Mibona, Isulu, Bushangala area, they have told us how much ounces of gold that we can get.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

In Ramula, Mibona, we expect to get about half a million ounces of gold.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

In Bushangala, Isulu, Bushangala, we expect about 1.2 million ounces.

44:19

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

If I take the one for Isulu, Bushangala, that translates to, there was a time we were given the figure, using the current figures that time,

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

it was coming to a value of 680 billion Kenya shillings.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Now, with that alone, if the country starts mining this, then you expect economic development within our country,

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

in the sense that our GDP will grow by the value of what we are getting from that mineral.

44:52

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

But the issue now is, why is it taking Shanta to take long to start mining?

44:58

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

The idea that we do with the receptor.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

plan but now you see because of politics and again you're going into the near uh the political

45:06

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

year now politicians mcs and others senators mps are using this as a political tool

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

that you either settle i mean you're going to be displaced and therefore you're not going to

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

be compensated yet when you follow the law it is very clear it says that the holder of the land

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

shall be compensated adequately or shall be given an alternative land for settlement so but according

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

to the politicians they'll say you're not going to be compensated the government wants to take this

45:52

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

land so we are getting the the community is getting mixed up when they know that it is the wealth

45:59

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

or the resources of these countries specifically minerals belong to the government or it is held

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

it belongs to the people of kenya and held in trust by the national government so i think there is just

46:14

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

a disconnect that we are as kenyans are not accepting and that's why this dialogue i believe is going to

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

bring change because you being the key stakeholders in the mining sector are going to drive this to

46:27

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

the next level we've had a lot of engagements with the other stakeholders and i think the ministry policy

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

is very clear it's an open door policy i know we had challenges in terms of getting permits but that is

46:42

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

now something of the past we are working on the backlog of the licenses we are giving them the licenses

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

and we expect that they start if you have been given a prospecting license you should start

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

prospecting within the shortest time period which is provided for in the law of three months and this

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

shall be done for a period of three years if you are not satisfied you surrender part of the land

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

and then you apply for renewal of the permit i mean the license which then gives the additional miners

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

the small scale miners to continue in that area without any interference because for them

47:25

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

they will only be operating at the service level they might not go so deep because they

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

only do either leaching they either do alluvial mining which is basically at the service level

47:41

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

so i think uh i want to thank the kcm for coming up with this idea of having a dialogue

47:49

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

can we as a country dialogue and come to understand that if you look at the resources of this country

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

for a long time and can you give the statistics the details the minerals vis-a-vis the agricultural

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

produce how much do you get from the minerals and how much do you get from agricultural produce i think

48:09

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

we have reached a standstill or constant scale when it comes to agriculture if anything i think even

48:17

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

it is coming down because of the increase in population so as we increase in population the

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

arable land is also becoming land because of the i mean small because of the settlement so we have to

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

change our thinking we have to know which is the alternative source of revenue for this country

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

and if this country is to grow how are we going to grow and if we are endowed with the resources

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

why are we sitting on these resources so these are things that we are working on as a ministry

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

that now we use our resources to develop this it is under the constitution

49:10

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

the minerals belong to the people of kenya when it comes to now sharing of the revenue 70 percent of

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

the realities goes to the national government which then belongs to the people of kenya but because

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

of our devolved system we also take cognizance the fact that now that is as own source revenue for a

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particular county and therefore the act gave them 20 percent then it goes further and says look as much as

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

the county has the right to get revenue also from the resources within the county the community that

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

does that is going to be affected by the mining activity must also benefit from this resource and that's why

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

In the royalty, the community, the affected community, gets 10%.

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

But over and above, they must sign an agreement, what's called the community development agreement,

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

that as they do the mining, they must also contribute to the development of that community.

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

And therefore, out of the growth sales that they get, they must share with the community.

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And at the rate of at least 1%.

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

It says at least 1%.

50:33

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

But because you're negotiating, it's an agreement, they can negotiate upwards.

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

And I think within a short time, we'll be seeing that trend going up because you'll be saying,

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

I'll give, some of them will be saying, when it comes to community development agreement,

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

I'll give the community 2%.

50:49

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

So again, that's an increase.

50:51

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

So if you look at, I want to give you just a scenario.

50:55

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

If we use the Isulu Bushangala, figures of 680 billion, this community, and the mining period is estimated to be eight years.

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

This community of Isulu Bushangala, the affected community, in the period of eight years,

51:14

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

if we take that as a constant figure, they will get 6.8 billion Kenya shillings in a period of six, I mean, eight years.

51:26

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Now, if I give you, compare with what a constituency gets in terms of allocation of CDF,

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

maximum they get about 170.

51:35

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

So you can see the transformation that will take place for those communities or those people around the mining area

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

or those where the minerals are.

51:46

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

And I've seen this, the occurrence is about 970.

51:51

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

All right?

51:51

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

That means it's spread across the country.

51:53

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

We have that information.

51:55

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

And now the counties are saying, could you give us what is in our county?

52:01

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Because that is, that's already an indication that if we exploit these resources, their own source of revenue will go up.

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Some of them are likely to get, in terms of the royalties, are likely to get more than what they get from the shareable revenue.

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

So you can see the transformation that can take place.

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

They are going to be in surplus automatically.

52:22

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

So I think this dialogue, can you say to me?

52:37

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Yes, yes, I can hear you.

52:38

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Is it okay if we...

52:41

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

To conclude, conclude, conclude, I want to say this, that let's take this dialogue further.

52:49

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Let's bring everybody on board.

52:51

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Let's talk about how this wealth, these resources of this country is going to take us to the first world.

52:59

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

As His Excellency, the President, has told us over and over again that we need to take this country to the first world.

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

The route to take this country to the first world is through our own mineral resources.

53:13

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

I want to say thank you for giving me an opportunity and thank you for inviting me to give my remarks in this dialogue.

53:21

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Thank you and good evening.

53:24

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

All right.

53:25

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Thank you very much, Bona Pierce.

53:29

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

That is Pierce Mining, Harikim Thai.

53:33

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

And I have outlined quite a number of issues in terms of regulation, the new set of regulations that have come in.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Compared to one that was very colonial in nature from the 1940s.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

And this introduces the issues of revenue sharing, the place of attestino mining and also small-scale miners, the issue of permits and licensing and community development agreement amongst other issues.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

And I know, I don't know, for ground, as Kenyans would say.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

And that's why we have miners themselves also within this particular space and I'll give them an opportunity to speak.

54:21

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

But quickly and briefly at that, I'd like to welcome, because we understand that legislation is very important.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Sometimes if you lack goodwill in the legislative chamber of this country, it becomes very difficult to effect change.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

And we have the chairperson, the Departmental Committee on Environment, Forestry and Mining, Honorable Engineer Vincent Musioka, Musao.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

I don't know whether you are, you already have a speaker with you, so I might.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

from rather with you so that you can just proceed uh the chair departmental committee on environment

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

forestry and mining are you are you president sir okay maybe we should have you on briefly

55:23

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

uh-huh that is being sorted in the back end as we do so i'd skip the ceo uh brand simu uh brand

55:32

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

right now you have a microphone uh quickly uh you can you can give your tech you've had the the ps talk

55:40

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

about some of these issues and you are the ceo of the chamber uh looking at what the ps is saying

55:47

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

where we are as a country vis-a-vis the concerns of the chamber of mines these are miners especially

55:56

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

uh talk to us where we are is there a nexus that you are working with or we are still

56:02

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

worlds apart in terms of the new regulations vis-a-vis the implementation briefly as we

56:09

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

uh we sought out uh the chairperson departmental committee uh on environment forestry and mining

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

uh but brand please unmute thank you so much uh noah for the invitation and also allow me to also

56:25

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

appreciate our our peers the honorable harriet mtai for honoring us and uh appearing to speak to us and

56:34

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

welcome us and open the dialogue it is very important that uh we can have our our government

56:43

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

listening and responding to you know the call of wanainchi to to a forum such as this one so thank you very

56:51

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

much honorable ps for coming to join us and i think when we met you earlier today and as we have always

56:58

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

met with you one of the things is um the size of our sector at uh you know 0.8 to 1 percent of gdp is a

57:07

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

big understatement and a lot of it is to do with the lack of adequate information and awareness of what mining

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

mining is in the and what it takes so this forum and uh other fora that we will have as well as the

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

activities of the miners themselves working together we will develop the the sector to contribute more to

57:35

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

the gdp and as you have also highlighted it is very important that we the citizens uh get to understand

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

what uh the law says what the provisions of the laws and the regulations are so that we are not

57:52

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

hoodwinked and misled by populist agenda or derailed from realizing potential value that there is in the

58:02

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

minerals i think another important aspect that we talked about is that for we as miners or the people in

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

the mining community to undertake responsible mining mining itself is quite uh an extractive and can be a

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

destructive activity in terms of the environment so we need to take the lead as the mining industry to

58:29

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

mine but mine in a responsible way so i think we also had that discussion with them with the ps earlier and of

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

course compliance uh to the regulations that are there uh the minerals belong to all kenyans so whether

58:45

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

they are in mandera they are in kwale they are in kakamega the child in turukana is equally entitled to

58:55

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

benefit from from that mineral because it's within the borders of kenya so we as miners should also seek to

59:02

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

comply with the law in terms of paying royalties paying taxes uh as expected so that that benefit

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

can accrue to kenya and the ps has clearly highlighted that there's a lot of benefit for the host community

59:16

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

so there's a lot of gain to gain from from mining so i want to encourage us to be good ambassadors to

59:25

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

drive responsible mining to look for the right information to comply with what the law says to

59:32

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

mine responsibly good labor practices as well so that our people are safe as they mine and then we pay

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S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

our fair share of of taxes so that this sector can grow it can attract more investors can create good

59:47

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

jobs for our people and also develop our respective areas so this conversation is good for us i want to

59:56

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

invite everybody that has joined to contribute

59:59

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

you

1:00:00

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

freely today is is really listening so whatever idea whatever perspective that each of us has

1:00:07

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

this is our forum we speak to one another respectfully uh the ps and senior government

1:00:13

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

officials are on the call kenya chamber of minds the civil society faith best organization

1:00:20

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

everybody's on the call we speak to one another with the respect it is not a forum to accuse each

1:00:28

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

other or to you know pull each other down it is time to listen time to speak to one another respectively

1:00:34

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

so thank you very much i welcome everybody to contribute at the end we will be producing a

1:00:41

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

report on what kenyan said about mining and this will be a reference document that we can continue

1:00:48

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

to use and to reference whether it be for policy making or rather decision making within government

1:00:54

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

and even invest in environment so that we can push our mining sector forward so welcome this is our

1:01:01

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

space adisano miners the communities i think i also failed to recognize we have also women in mining so

1:01:10

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

they have a voice as well we have youth in mining i saw tiampati on the call we welcome all of us to

1:01:17

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participate this is our forum so that we can contribute to push our mining forward so thank

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you very much and welcome all right thank you very much brian um for for the welcome and also just

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understanding that uh this is a dialogue uh that we've started and will continue uh carrying on on a

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regular hopefully it's a monthly uh you know session that we meet here in foam kenyans and participate

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on uh in the discussion on matters mining uh you are i know only when i told you about uh representation

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from um the legislature that is the chairperson uh of the departmental committee on the environment

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forestry and mining engineer vincent mushioka uh today i'm pat abado uh we also had um a representation

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from the county as you listen to the peers he noted uh there is uh the revenue sharing formula uh 70

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percent going to the national government parts of the remainder going to the county and specifically

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to the community now uh we expect entitled a better county uh governor dr andrew modima uh to at least

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join us uh for this call i don't know whether it's available but in the meantime uh i'd like us to to go

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straight away to communities because this this is moving pretty quickly um asmaq asmaq is very important

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uh because they represent a huge portion uh of um of this sector this is at ethano and small-scale

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mining association of kenya and i believe we have a representation from asmaq at least from what the

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peers told us in regards to the new regulations and what it means uh for all sector players especially at

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sano and small-scale miners i think asmaq will be able to give us a clear picture of where exactly we are

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uh and maybe some of those gaps so i don't know whether we have patrick uh patrick ligami who is

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uh asmaq vice chair uh or a representative of asmaq if at all we have any representative of asmaq you can

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just uh shoot your your request uh kindly any representative of asmaq yes i did see the sector general

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or i did see the sector general on the line uh jeremy olamunka all right we can have um jeremy jeremy

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let me see how to get you just send me a request jeremy shoot a request right there to speak

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jeremy olamunka let's have representation from the asmaq which is a critical actually

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sizable as stakeholders in this sector are we able to get him as we as we do so aliza can just help me

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at the background so that we are able to get jeremy uh on on this particular call

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But right now, even as we sort that particular issue out, you'll be a little bit patient with

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us. I see we have quite a number of people joining us. And at this particular moment,

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we have also representation from academia. We have youth in extractives. And I want to give the

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microphone because the average, the median age of the country I think is 19, so is the continent.

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And these are sectors that have the potential to serve the current and the future generation of

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this country. I can see Joshua. Joshua is here. Joshua Tiampati, are you able to take the microphone

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and just give us the perspective of a young person who's also trying to turn around the mining sector

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in Kenya, especially from a youth point of view? Joshua, the mic is yours.

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Yeah, thank you, Noah. And of course, thank you to all our speakers, the Honourable Principal

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Secretary, Mr. Harike Mutai. And I see our mining secretaries here, Mr. Thomas Mutuiwa, and of course,

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Dr. Kanyoro with KCM and the CEO, Brian. No, it's a pleasure to have the opportunity to just speak

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briefly about the mining landscape from a perspective of a youth in the industry. If there's something

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that we are vastly endowed with as the young people is energy and ambition. And you cannot take that away

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from the young people in this space. So as the youth and extractives consortium, what we do is mainly

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focus on bridging gaps. And these are gaps in skill, as well as gaps in opportunity. We're most notably

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known for industry connections and how we get the youth in the country who study and engage in mining,

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engineering and geology to now actually practice their craft. And that is, I would just want to hone in a

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bit on that. I think that is where it is at for our youth, because there is skill. There's about 5,000

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mining engineers in the country currently, as we speak. And the number is growing. There's a prevalence of

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skill, but the uptake in terms of career opportunities is not matching. And this is what we need to

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lock hands together and seek to address. When we hear big projects coming into the country,

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of course, the likes of base titanium, which now has left, but recently just hearing the announcement of

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NGX Limited, which is coming in to do some rare earth mining. It's exciting because now this

1:08:32

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opens up doors for local content opportunities and absorption of our, of our expertise.

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So for us as a sector, we are only growing. There's no decrease in the way is forward.

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And as the youth, our key aim is to ensure that we have full, full absorption

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and that our talent does not go to, to waste. So I'll leave it there. And yeah, thanks again for the

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opportunity. And I, I am well pleased with the engagement and looking forward to further engagement.

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All right. Thank you very much, uh, Joshua, uh, for, you know, giving voice and context, uh, when you talk

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about young people, uh, from the technical engagement to, uh, going deep. I mean, mining has various value

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chains and, uh, these, uh, value chains that can be exploited, uh, to create employment, to create value,

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to make business and make money at the end of the day and transform our lives and communities. I see

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on the call, uh, we have representation from academia. This is one of the areas where we are told

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that, uh, sometimes academia, there is, there is.

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a schism between what we are trained vis-a-vis what is practice and i don't know whether that

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is true but foundationally if we are to have a strong mining sector in this country training

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has to be on point the way we raise the technical expertise to carry this and i'm glad that we have

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um a doctor engineer nation adero who's dean school of mines and engineering at taita taveta university

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and also executive council member at the kenya chamber of mines uh doctor kindly put to ask the

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yes i can hear you clearly

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thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak to kenyans and beyond the borders of kenya

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i'm the dean of the school of mines and engineering at taita taveta university which is kenya's

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premier university of mining education with the underpinning philosophy that our engineers have to

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acquire the skills they need to be adaptive the adaptive resilience they need to address the

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needs of the industry the mining industry and beyond that they must be sustainability oriented

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so that the engineers we graduate from our school of mines and engineering uh should be

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sustainability conscious because when in mining we talk of sustainable mining if you look at the global

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mineral mineral deposit value that is a gross value it has been estimated to be up to 150 trillion us

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dollars and africa claiming about 45 trillion us dollars but if you are to focus on recoverable economic

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value then sustainable methods of mining have to come into the picture green initiatives

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sustainability conscious engineers then we can raise the recoverable economic value in africa up to 15

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trillion us dollars against the global figure of 50 trillion us dollars and in kenya we can raise that

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up to 100 billion us dollars and economies would also talk of net present value we consider the taxes

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discount rates and the payback period then in kenya we could be talking about 50 billion us dollars and

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against africa 3 trillion us dollars and global 5 trillion us dollars so if you look at this training

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skills development is key and at taitaveta university we don't just train them at the bachelor's level

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we have masters and safety level training because we also need research and development so that our

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vast mineral wealth in africa and in kenya uh which is uh residing as a geological endowment can be

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translated into economic value and there's no way you can divorce that from quality training and high

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level research and development complete with the support models that we need for sustainable mining and

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inclusive economic empowerment with good governance in the mining sector and as i conclude i would like to

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appreciate that uh this dialogue is opening avenues for policy development so that our skills development can

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also feed into policy enhancement because if we don't focus on policy then we'll remain uh static and it

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will be disappointing but despite the vast mineral wealth that we have mining set the mining sector will

1:13:57

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still be contributing less than one percent of the gdp but we need to move away from there and achieve our

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strategic objective of ensuring that mining can contribute upwards of 10 percent of the gdp and training

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and skills development is critical to that and we are now talking of stakeholder capitalism all people

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on board all stakeholders on board not shareholder capitalism for the uh a few people for a few

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investors we have to look at the communities uh the benefit sharing models and you can see that to come

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up with such a benefit sharing formula you need to have all people on board and have adequately trained

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engineers and we urge the industry to continue partnering with us so that we can bridge that gap

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academia industry collaboration that we need for sustainable mining and a critical supply chain thank you

1:14:53

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okay thank you very much dr and i know we are already past eight

1:15:00

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I'll request all of us to be a bit patient with us, kindly bear with us, we'll extend

1:15:07

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a few minutes extra, but even as we do so, I know you're listening and you have lots

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of questions on the Kenya Chamber of Minds, pinned tweets, okay?

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You can just ask your questions down there and also give your commentary, which we shall

1:15:27

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be sampling later on.

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Now, there is representation also of women in the sector, and we have the Association

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for Women in Energy and Extractives in Kenya that is AWAKE, and we have actually AWAKE CEO

1:15:48

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or Michelle Mwambela.

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I don't know, Michelle, whether you are able to grab the microphone.

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You can just, you know, put in your request so that I hand over the microphone to you.

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But that as it may, we also have Mr. Thomas Mutuiwa, rather, who is the Mind Secretary, and

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he's accompanied, of course, the PS.

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Mr. Thomas?

1:16:22

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Thank you.

1:16:23

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Sorry.

1:16:23

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

I've been having challenges with my microphone.

1:16:27

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

It's okay.

1:16:28

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

It's Michelle, right?

1:16:30

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Yes.

1:16:31

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Michelle speaking.

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S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Okay.

1:16:32

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Michelle kindly paint for us the picture of women participation in this sector.

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But other than that, what, where we are as a country, if at all you're listening to the

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PS, where we are as a country and where we ought to be, where the disconnect is coming

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from.

1:16:53

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The mic is yours, please.

1:16:56

S… Speaker 1 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

All right.

1:16:57

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

Thank you so much.

1:16:58

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And I think just to echo what the PS has said and other speakers.

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First and foremost, women in the mining space actually participate in different levels of

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the value chain.

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We have women who own businesses.

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I can see a formidable woman like Miriam Kamau here, who has done quite a bit in the mining

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sector.

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I know there are professionals, geologists, engineers, and other professions that have

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done tremendous work within the sector as technical people.

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But also we have women dealers.

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We have women artisanal and small scale miners and women doing quite a bit of value addition

1:17:35

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and playing at different levels of the value chain.

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So I'd reckon that women actually are meaningfully engaged.

1:17:42

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The policy and regulatory landscape does not limit women's participation.

1:17:48

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However, I think there are other elements that are sort of barriers to their full participation.

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So access to finance, access to resources such as land, among other things, have hindered

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the participation that we would like to see them playing at.

1:18:03

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However, there's a lot of initiatives that are taking place to support women to access the

1:18:07

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much needed finance, to scale up their operations, to sharpen women's skills in different aspects,

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including capacity building, on value addition, and things like that.

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So I think, as stakeholders, there's a lot we can do to support more women to participate.

1:18:23

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But I'm happy that there's already quite a bit that's taking place to make sure that there's

1:18:29

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a level playing field for women within the mining sector.

1:18:33

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So that potential is tremendously there.

1:18:35

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And we've been appreciative of the support of the stakeholders, generally, not just the government, but other stakeholders within this space.

1:18:43

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Now, when it comes to how can we bridge the gap of this proverbial mining can contribute up to 10% and where we actually are now.

1:18:52

S… Speaker 2 (space-1YxNrZeYBrVxw_0)

I think a few things come to mind.

1:18:55

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One is geological data, not to deliver, but I'm sure this has come up.

1:19:00

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This unlocks investors' appetite to come in and to explore a lot more within the sector.

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Number two, the licensing procedures have been fairly slow, slower than we would expect to see a vibrant sector.

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So I think these are some of the very critical aspects that could change the landscape for the mining sector in this country.

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In my opinion, if these two things, among many others, of course, but for me, these are two things that we can do early tomorrow morning and make sure that we streamline that.

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