mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128

Nov 08, 2026 09:24 · 15:39 · English · Whisper Turbo · 4 Munyori
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Lecture Index
Kuratidza chete
0:00
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Let's return to this issue of the overhang.
0:02
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
It's really dominating the final days of our 2026 election
0:07
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
campaign.
0:07
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Germany,
0:09
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the home of MMP really,
0:10
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
they encountered this problem of a parliament ballooning out way past the number
0:15
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
of MPs that were intended.
0:17
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And I spoke earlier to a professor of political science
0:22
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
in Germany,
0:23
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Sven Sefkin,
0:24
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
and he told me that voter behaviour changed in Germany in
0:28
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the 19...
0:29
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
when the smaller political parties started to grow and the major
0:33
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
parties began to shrink.
0:34
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
It all started back when the Constitution was made
0:39
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
and the parties could not decide what kind of electoral system they would have.
0:43
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And because they couldn't agree,
0:45
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
this is what came out,
0:47
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the MMP system,
0:48
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
where you combine the best of both worlds,
0:52
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
as it turned out later.
0:54
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
But back then,
0:54
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
it was just a compromise.
0:56
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
But that's a long time ago.
0:57
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And then move decades ahead.
1:01
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
We have always had these overhang mandates too,
1:04
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
but they were just one or two or three.
1:07
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
That was it until the 90s.
1:09
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So it was not a major issue,
1:11
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
and especially since the parliament had around 500 members.
1:16
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So one or two of 500 really doesn't create
1:20
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
much disturbance.
1:21
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And that changed in the 1990s when there
1:26
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
was a general change in parties.
1:28
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
New parties became stronger.
1:31
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
The big parties became weaker.
1:32
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And so there was a change in voter behavior.
1:36
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And strategic voting started at that time.
1:40
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And therefore,
1:41
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the number of overhang mandates increased.
1:45
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And it increased so much that in 2013,
1:49
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the Constitutional Court of Germany ruled that
1:53
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
this is too much,
1:55
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
that this is...
1:57
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
a problem with the equality of the votes,
2:01
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
because some people,
2:03
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
namely those that have created overhang mandates,
2:07
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
be it strategically or just because they were
2:11
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
voting their preferences,
2:12
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
but those people that had created overhang mandates had
2:16
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
a stronger voice in the final composition of
2:21
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the parliament.
2:22
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And so the constitutional court ruled something must be changed.
2:26
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And so in 2013,
2:28
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
compensation mandates were introduced.
2:32
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So overhanging mandates were still there.
2:35
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
But for every overhanging mandate,
2:38
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the other parties would get compensated.
2:42
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So there were additional mandates so that in the end,
2:46
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the parliament looked like it would look...
2:50
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
perfectly proportional to the party votes.
2:53
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And so that problem was solved.
2:55
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
I see.
2:56
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And you're using the word mandate.
2:58
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
We would use seat just for our audience to understand what
3:02
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
you're saying there.
3:03
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So they had a compensation system to try to restore
3:07
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the proportionality that had been destroyed by
3:12
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the overhang,
3:12
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
right?
3:13
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Exactly.
3:14
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
But this compensation mandate or compensation seats
3:18
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
had a big downside because it
3:22
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
made parliament really,
3:24
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
really huge.
3:25
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
In the last election in 2021,
3:28
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
last election before the electoral reform,
3:32
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the parliament,
3:34
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
which legally had at that time 598 members,
3:38
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
got...
3:40
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
another almost 150 seats out
3:44
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
of overhang and compensation mandate.
3:48
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
You had over 730 -something seats.
3:53
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Exactly.
3:54
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
736 MPs.
3:56
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
This made it the biggest parliament in the world.
3:59
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And for that reason,
4:02
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
there was a decision then.
4:05
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
that there needs to be a fundamental reform.
4:08
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Okay, so what do you do in plain terms?
4:10
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
How do you fix it?
4:11
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
What was the solution?
4:15
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Well, the solution was,
4:16
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
again, a big conflict.
4:17
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
The parties could not agree because,
4:19
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
as it always is with electoral law,
4:22
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
in the end,
4:23
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
it's about power.
4:24
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
You change the rules and you give advantages or disadvantages to
4:28
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
some parties.
4:29
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So there was no agreement.
4:31
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
There was no compromise.
4:32
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
There was one party or there was
4:37
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the coalition that...
4:38
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
pushed through electoral reform against the
4:42
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
wishes of the opposition.
4:43
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
The opposition again went to the constitutional court,
4:47
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
but the constitutional court fundamentally ruled that this new electoral
4:51
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
law is in fact constitutional.
4:53
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So there was conflict.
4:55
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
What we do now,
4:56
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
there are caps,
4:58
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
and the caps...
5:00
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
are basically based on the party votes.
5:03
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So a party or an MP will only
5:07
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
go into parliament if there are enough party votes
5:12
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
for their own party.
5:13
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And if,
5:15
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
for example,
5:17
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
if there are 43 MPs who win
5:22
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the electorates of party A,
5:25
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
But according to the party votes,
5:27
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
there's only room for 40 of them.
5:30
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Then only 40 will join the parliament.
5:33
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And three,
5:34
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
even though they have won their electorates,
5:37
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
they will not go into parliament.
5:39
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
They will not be MPs.
5:42
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So,
5:43
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
and how did they decide which three miss out?
5:46
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
For your example,
5:47
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Party A,
5:48
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
you've got 43 electorate seats,
5:50
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the party vote,
5:51
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the proportionality only allowed for 40.
5:55
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
How do you decide which three electorate MPs
5:59
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
miss out?
6:02
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Exactly.
6:02
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
That's the interesting step that must be taken here and has grave
6:07
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
consequences.
6:07
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
The way that it's decided is if you have such a situation,
6:11
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
you actually compare the MPs from that particular
6:16
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
party that has too
6:20
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
many electorates won and you compare them to each other.
6:24
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And then the one that has the least votes compared
6:28
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
to the others from their own party.
6:31
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
will miss out.
6:31
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And so there's a whole twist to the competition because all of a sudden
6:36
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
you're competing against your colleagues from your own party.
6:38
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Yeah, that's really fascinating.
6:40
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
But does that mean that there are
6:44
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
some what we would call constituencies or
6:49
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
regions,
6:49
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
if you like,
6:51
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
who what,
6:52
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
don't have MPs?
6:54
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Exactly.
6:55
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
There are some constituency that are sometimes called deserted
6:59
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
districts here that do not have
7:03
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
an MP that has gone in through the
7:07
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
district or through the electorate vote.
7:10
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
However,
7:10
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
we do have the situation in Germany
7:15
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
that all MPs...
7:17
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
by party traditions who want to
7:21
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
run on a party list for the party vote have to
7:26
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
be nominated in a district first.
7:28
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
This is not legal,
7:30
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
like there's no legal provision for it.
7:33
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
It's just the way that parties do it.
7:35
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And therefore,
7:36
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
in most of the districts that are deserted,
7:40
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
and there are around 20,
7:42
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
there is still another MP who has run
7:46
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
in that district.
7:46
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
They did not win that district,
7:50
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
but they ran there and they moved into parliament
7:54
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
through the party vote.
7:56
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And therefore,
7:57
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
if you look at the total of all of Germany's
8:02
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
districts now,
8:04
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
299 districts,
8:06
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
there are only five districts that do not have
8:10
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
somebody that was elected in that
8:14
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
district or ran for election in that district.
8:17
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
But yes,
8:18
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
it does happen.
8:18
S… Speaker 3 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And just to be clear,
8:20
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
you have what now fixed?
8:23
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
The number of MPs?
8:25
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
I mean, Parliament is fixed at,
8:26
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
what, 630,
8:28
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
I think it is,
8:29
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
is it? Exactly.
8:30
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
It's now fixed at 630,
8:32
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
which still makes it one of the biggest parliaments in the world.
8:36
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
But that's, of course,
8:36
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the next question.
8:37
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
What's the right size for a parliament?
8:40
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And that's,
8:41
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
I think, something that also will be discussed in New Zealand
8:45
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
at some point of time.
8:47
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Because if you look at the absolute number,
8:49
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
it's a big number.
8:50
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
But then if you look at the number in proportion to
8:55
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the population,
8:56
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
then the German parliament is actually not so
9:00
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
big.
9:01
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Yes, that's right.
9:01
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So under...
9:04
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Germany's rules,
9:05
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
would New Zealand's electric splitting strategy work?
9:10
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
There's this strategy,
9:11
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
as I think we've explained to you,
9:13
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
that the centre -right is trying to engineer
9:18
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
an overhang.
9:20
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Would that work under the German rules now?
9:26
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
It would not work because of the provision
9:32
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
that only the exact proportion
9:36
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
of seats is allocated according to the party votes.
9:40
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And so if one party was systematically gathering
9:44
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
more votes through the electorate votes,
9:47
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
they would still be cut so that it reflects the
9:51
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
party vote.
9:52
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So basically it moves the incentive back.
9:55
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
to campaign for the party votes.
9:57
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And do you think...
10:00
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
This is fairer,
10:01
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
because what's the concern that you were destroying proportionality,
10:06
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
which is in our language,
10:09
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
in our system,
10:11
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
that what the P stands for in MMP,
10:13
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
mixed member proportional?
10:14
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Right.
10:17
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
That's a big debate even here in Germany.
10:20
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So the current coalition that is governing now since 2025
10:24
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
has put into their coalition contract that they're going to
10:28
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
revise the electoral law.
10:30
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And they set up an expert commission.
10:34
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
It's,
10:35
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
I don't know, number...
10:37
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
how many expert commissions we've had already on this topic.
10:41
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And they have not come to any conclusion yet
10:45
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
because it's about power,
10:47
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
as I said earlier.
10:48
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And so this is a contested system right now.
10:52
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
The majority party...
10:55
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
that is in government actually doesn't want it.
10:58
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
The coalition partner,
10:59
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the Social Democrats want to keep it.
11:02
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And there's no way out at the moment,
11:06
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
but it's certainly not the end of the story.
11:09
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
What it does is it puts back the focus on proportionality.
11:15
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
At the same time,
11:16
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
it upholds the incentives for MPs to
11:20
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
run and to be active in a district.
11:24
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So it does have these best of both worlds still
11:28
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
in it.
11:29
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Yes.
11:29
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
I want to finish by talking about the thresholds
11:34
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
to get into Parliament.
11:35
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
As I understand it,
11:36
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Germany also has a 5 % threshold on the
11:40
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
party vote.
11:42
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
But I want to talk about a system that we call coattailing,
11:46
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
where if you fall short of the 5 % threshold
11:50
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
in the New Zealand MMP system,
11:52
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
you can enter Parliament if you've won one
11:57
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
electorate seat or constituency.
11:59
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
As I understand it,
12:01
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Germany has a three constituency or three electorate
12:06
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
seat threshold.
12:06
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Is that right?
12:08
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Exactly,
12:09
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
exactly.
12:10
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
It has a three district threshold.
12:14
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
If you miss the 5 % but you win three
12:19
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
districts,
12:19
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
you will still get into parliament proportional
12:24
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
to the party votes.
12:27
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And this has happened in the past repeatedly because
12:31
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
we do have parties that are particularly strong.
12:35
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
in some regions,
12:36
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
and that's exactly the idea of that exception.
12:40
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So if you were advising New Zealand,
12:43
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
what are some of the things,
12:46
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
if anything, you would borrow from Germany and perhaps something you'd
12:50
S… Speaker 1 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
warn us against doing?
12:54
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Well,
12:55
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
that's a great question,
12:56
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
because as I said,
12:57
S… Speaker 4 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
it's always about power.
12:59
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
If you talk to politicians about electoral reform,
13:02
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
of course,
13:03
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
they're going to look at their own advantage and their own advantage
13:07
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
will largely influence what they think.
13:11
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
What I think is important for reforming
13:16
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
electoral law is that you find actually a system that,
13:20
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
first of all,
13:21
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
has a broad...
13:22
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
broad consensus so that it's not contested how
13:26
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the votes are cast and counted.
13:30
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So it's very well worth looking for
13:34
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
some kind of a compromise.
13:36
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And it might always be a compromise rather than pushing it through from
13:41
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
one side against the other.
13:43
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
The second important thing is that a system must
13:47
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
be understood or must be at least
13:51
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
potentially understood or understandable so the more
13:55
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
complicated it gets the less clear
13:59
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
it is to the citizens and if that is not clear
14:03
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
then we have a problem with democracy
14:07
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
so I'm not a big fan of making
14:11
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
electoral systems ever more complicated with additional
14:16
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
votes, et cetera,
14:17
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
that are sometimes debated too.
14:20
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And finally,
14:23
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the combination of the MMP
14:27
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
system to have both the party vote,
14:30
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the proportionality count,
14:32
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
and the first vote,
14:35
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
the electorate vote,
14:37
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
that creates this personal
14:40
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
connection in the district is a good combination.
14:44
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So I would not easily give it up,
14:47
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
I think.
14:47
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
But as I said,
14:49
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Even here,
14:50
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
I'm editor of a journal for parliamentary affairs.
14:53
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
Over the last 10 years,
14:55
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
we have had more than 20 articles suggesting how it
14:59
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
can be done better.
15:00
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
But nobody has that one perfect idea
15:05
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
because it's always different things that you want to combine.
15:08
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And therefore,
15:09
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
you need to go through that process of debating it and finding
15:14
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
a system.
15:15
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
And then looking at that system.
15:18
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
I would also always say it's absolutely fair to use
15:22
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
a system.
15:23
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
So strategic voting per se is
15:27
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
nothing that is not legitimate.
15:29
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
If a system allows for strategic voting,
15:32
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
then people may use it.
15:34
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
If you want not to have strategic voting,
15:36
S… Speaker 2 (mdr-20261103-1246-sven_siefken_on_germanys_experience_with_mmp_overhangs-128)
you need to change the system.

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