Voice

0:15

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I have one.

0:50

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Well, that's it. As the employer, we would be responsible for preparing this.

1:10

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Good morning. Good morning.

2:02

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Good morning, David Marbury, Wildlife Watchers Acton, Head of Wildlife Section.

2:26

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

So, we are here on request submitted by Mr.

2:40

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Mr. Ramota, who is chairman of the PSA game over the section for Trinidad and Tobago. Mr. Ramota has written to the ministry, HR in particular, and listed a number of concerns that...

3:01

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

we have within the committee committee, the A board is within the White Rife section of Forestry Division. So at this point, we have Mr. Ruben Reissing, who is the acting council that will come for us with us, who will respond, in addition to his colleagues on the MRI, to the concerns that Mr. Ravita has listed.

3:30

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

I will try as far as possible to guide the discussion along so that it doesn't descend into any...

3:43

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

disruptive kind of conduct and also that we don't go too far on topics where the matter is stable and response is given we will move on to the next matter as quickly as we could so that we don't waste time discussing too much right so i'm the first concern um that uh mr

4:14

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Establish enforcement duties. I know I am a cubist and aware of what some of you are beyond your generalism, so I would ask you to explain briefly what it is and then let us know what... So well, you and my colleagues, which I already found out that there is the one from National Vox, that's a great issue. So I just want to say, I know that you brought those things from National Vox. National Vox...

4:40

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

The issues that were sent to us, that you may have, is not on the agenda, right? So, I will, I cannot entertain that unless we need to be concerned with that.

5:01

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I don't know if he's in a position to do it because this agenda was not set to him with those matters on it so that he would have had time to sufficiently prepare himself and all that. So if we are unable to address your concerns today, please don't consider it.

5:20

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

and industrial relations, it is just that we will not take on a fair chance to consider the matters and get enough information on it to share with you today. Alright? So, based on the list of matters that we would have submitted, I'll ask you to get us fitted at and see what happens later on.

5:45

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

I believe it was in 2023, a decision was made to put foresters to supervise anyone in the wildlife section. Since they have been supervised, we've had several issues that concerns what there is about.

6:10

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Oh, I don't want to kind of show too much. So, as I was saying, in 2023, 3D is a general need to put foresters in charge.

6:22

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

of Game 1's in wildlife section. Prior to that, it was Game 1 1 reported to Game 1 2 reported to the biologist reported to the conservator or the EPC. Since 2023, we had several issues with the foresters in the section, which we have raised several times, both interacting and building. The response does not be very favorably towards

6:49

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

a written response because I don't think we have gotten back any response in writing that I know about. We brought it to the attention of the union in 2024. Since then, the correspondent has been back and forth. The teenager, I have raised several issues in meetings, Mr. Marbury and our brother. To this day, it's still unresolved.

7:15

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Some of the issues is the report instructor for one. The change of report instructor because I was informed by the union that the report instructor should only be changed under the guidance of the ministry, the union and the senior. That's the information I have. If I'm wrong, that is, you know, authentic. And then we have the issue of the community over time.

7:41

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

in the discussion where it ties into all the issues that were resolved since 2023 and we still have the same issues.

8:13

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

the role of the foresters. Is that correct? Yes. Is it that we all are not supposed to be supervised by foresters? No, not supposed to be. Why? I've got a very important chapter of the demon, the demon one, the demon two, the chief demon, but also the bar. Can I answer that? Yes, please, yes. So, I'd like to do this to be supervised, isn't it?

8:45

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

And we think that one is that the chair of the parts of the power forest, she came over here, right, was not aware of the problem. Here I say, we recently had a lecture.

9:07

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

Yes, they may have sent it to the industry and received no correspondence between the arts and the reception. We give the approval for having the lecture, but we are who are the members. Secondly, the chair will have moved to the concert. This detail will be all adjusted to the pool. The arts and the temperature, we have to address this number.

9:35

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

We have just been better than three federal courts, right? And in his request, he's asking the country that was going out to be a representative of the HR. I know I'm going to have to repeat the technique I will tell you, but I am going to be a representative of the HR. Arranged the April meeting, we refused, we denied, we didn't want to have a representative of the HR. So I put it on the next slide.

10:00

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

As to how or what did you put? Let's say I'm here in one section. I meet with the Coruscant region section, I meet with the Forester section, but I know any issues that the Coruscant region would have. Is it that they are taking the opportunity to go to step two up and have all the matter resolved and that will be with the Coruscant region. So that is why you want to know how are we treating with this section from here going forward.

10:27

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Yes, of the section, we are substituted internally. I think there is no resolution. So if they refuse to meet with me, it's stating something about the section already.

10:57

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

So I did not refuse him and I said no, I would rather have him as an HR representative.

11:23

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

And we think about it, it is customary that they were in section 7 to the FMA, who is the chairman, who is the chairman, who is the chairman, who is the chairman, who is the chairman, who is the chairman, who is the chairman, who is the chairman, who is the chairman, who is the chairman, who is the chairman, who is the chairman, who is the chairman, who is the chairman, who is the chairman.

12:01

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

The part where the letter was not signed, the section being new, and as something I have formed, I had no prior knowledge that the letter was not signed at the UR. It's what the testimony you may have told me, is that all correspondents were sent to you in the theater.

12:20

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

So I apologize for that. Right. But the thing about it, you took the approach, and I hired an approach to meet with me. When I was set to meet him, we wanted to ask him. So, Amir, you have said that you had a right to get out of this. Based on this. I indicated that we have been able to come and meet with me, or if I can have a picture of his everything. If I want to meet with me, I will discuss it, how I know it's supposed to happen.

13:03

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Right, so that is being noted that it is...

13:09

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

I advise from the Human Resource Management Division that we establish, we must proceed and be followed.

13:21

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

the procedure of the abuse and the involvement of the Secretary of Justice not be solicited in an untimely manner because what it does is undermine the process.

13:49

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

We have missed several attempts with our management that we forced us in our section to resolve any issues. That is why if you meet with me now, you meet with this section. That's not right. If you meet with me now, you move to the higher level. I have not done with that in terms for next company with regards to that. Right. So what was told to us at one point in time was that if we go up top now, we can't really see how we need to replace our operation. So...

14:19

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

This is the approach we decided to do. Unfortunately, it reached the list. I did not expect it to. I would have really gladly liked the leader, but I wanted somebody external to iron out any leaders who may have that would have worked for the team card of the country.

14:42

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I could say the same picture, I could say the same picture, I could say the same picture, I could say the same picture.

15:00

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

So, on what grounds did you decide to not meet with the Council in terms of request when you submitted this letter?

15:28

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

My reason may I not tell you to them is I truly wanted somebody from HR to be there, just in case we have this agreement. Some of us may not see eye to eye, or he reconsidered that agreement. I just didn't want that to happen. I didn't want to reach that as to the reconciliation.

15:48

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

So, Mr Chairman, I just want to answer. So, I just want to get a clear. Isn't that Mr Ramothai saying that he alone requested a meeting with the contributor or the PSA faction requested? Well, it's supposed to be the section. But you're now saying that you then wanted to see that. Oh, I'm sorry. That's it. I'm talking about the section. So, we'll be able to.

16:14

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

We then received a letter from that issue, that way, what is it that we have to do? We have to do it. Next thing, we have to do it.

16:35

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

There will never be a position with two parties saying like, we must have written this up. And if somebody hired us, we can reach out to this with CPU. And it must be important to make a determination. So if they're not here, we can then get a resolution with each other. We will not call CPU.

17:14

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

I wanted to at this point, as I said I am not, this is not

17:26

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Here, just to include some balance. That's what I thought I was going to say, right? Matter of commitment allows. This is before CPO, and this will be before CPO, but probably the basis of a grievance, or was it part of the normal interpretation of terms of conditions.

17:55

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

So the PSA has five agreements? Yes, well in 2024 because we tried to see clarification.

18:17

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

No, the CPO responded directly to the manager of the final process. So it was the same one because we still experienced the same issue. Even though the CPO sent the correspondent, we still experienced the same issue. So the termination was made by the CPO? Yes.

18:37

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

and so the follow-up is what you are trying to discuss. That's what you are hearing. So it is not a case. I just want to be very clear. I don't want to step on the CPUs too. I don't want to discuss Amanda that is before the CPU. And you understand what I am saying? Because none of us have the authority for going to rebuild Amanda to step 3.

19:07

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

If it does be discussed at 7.4, the PSA has a matter up there and hopefully you don't have that authority. No, no, no. This correspondence was sent in October 7.24. We have the Dean Ministry of Finance response from September 8.25. You basically speak about what you do in the law.

19:38

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

and that people with them should be paying for it. This is the union.

21:23

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

The second paragraph was stated explicitly.

21:31

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

that the commuted overtime was based on 39 hours overtime. Additionally, it is expected that from time to time, the actual overtime move may exceed or fall short of the prescribed number of hours on which the commuted overtime allowance had been based. Now this happened.

21:51

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

As such, the commuted overtime allowance is to be paid on a monthly basis in full, despite the number of excess hours used by the officer in any month. So that is explicit. Now in light of the above, I advise...

22:08

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

for the Game Over 1 and 2 and the typical driver is not normally prorated. And I believe the reason they would have said at least that when persons on vacation leave in a particular month, they will not be entitled to the committed overtime. But if it is normal sick leave, casual absence, like that. So she clarified the basis and then she made that class statement. I think if you should have closed off after that, then it is fine.

22:38

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Right? Right? It is not known before it is paid in full despite the number of actual overtime hours. Meaning whether you will 10, 15, even though it is based on a 39, if you will 60, it is to be paid in full because it is a monthly allowance. That is what they say. Right? The allowance is also available when an officer puts his on normal, sick leave and casual leave. So the correlation part refers to if the person goes on vacation in probably half of the month.

23:08

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

you wouldn't get it to the whole one because you cannot get from it to go for that and it's a not only job.

23:34

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Will you continue with the meeting? Yes, sure. Alright, so, having noted the concerns of the Conservator, with respect of following agreement, the established agreement's procedure, respecting those lines and not bypassing any lines, please let us maintain those, that process going forward, because...

23:55

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

I would now be careful to engage we all in any meeting room for what I would say 100% said that we all submitted because the concern system that we said one, two, and the matter was not given fair consideration, it was unsatisfied, then we'd be all going to engage it. But it is not appropriate the right area with us.

24:23

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

And it is not even appropriate to copy us when you do that, when you write step 1 and 2. Because what you do is try to get our attention through our satellite and that is not correct.

24:42

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

So, we have to start and we already went so far in time already, so let us give it the first issue.

25:33

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

What interference with established enforcement do you need? What is that?

26:10

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

The report struck when I came into forestry.

26:14

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

This is how I understand the game-modern ones, reporting game-modern tools. The game-modern tools will get qualification from the wildlife biologist. If there is anything else, it will go straight to the council for us to achieve game-modern. What is taken place now...

26:37

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

There has been an introduction of certain forms, right, that is not in relation to what we are accustomed to or what is mandated. So we had something called the Eternary Book. The Eternary Book is what has been come true from by the Ministry.

26:57

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

It has a number. Now we are seeing a longer page that has been introduced. Another thing is that when we do our subsistence, if we have to report the reports, we take it to the other wildlife section and the wildlife section will take it to the chief game ward. However, in the Wildlife Act, it indicates that the chief game ward

27:27

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

could issue any forest officer of the department and that is singular an officer that can that can act on his behalf right that is the definition of the act right however

27:45

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

What we have come to understand is that if there needs to be, if somebody is also acting on his behalf, right? What we will want to know is who is the person we want to report to directly if someone is acting on his behalf.

28:23

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

And the chief came out. The conservator is the chief.

28:34

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

The chicken one. And they buy the dressing. 56. 56. 53. 56.

29:13

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

What I'm saying is that if we have to report...

29:18

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

to an officer, one of the things that is needed, we need to know who, because from one time you will hear, he ain't getting directed from this one, he ain't getting directed from this one, there is nothing clear.

29:32

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

So what we would like to know is who is the officer that we need to report to.

30:00

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

We're going to tell you one time, you know, that I am a police officer. And I am a police officer. And I am a police officer. I am a police officer. So are you going to take me in trouble from me? No, you cannot. What is this? And this is telling me what is actually going on. I don't know what section 23 of this upstairs.

30:33

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

Right? So go back and check and check and check and check and check and check and check and check

30:42

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

This can be sexy. Of course, that's sexy.

31:27

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

so the thing about it is that you are the chief kimono the act gives you credence to

31:36

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

you either have someone that acts on your behalf and my question is who

31:44

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

is that because what happened is that we are getting it from this one, we are getting it from this one, we are getting it from the other one, and there needs to be something clear in our minds after, here what happened, this is this. So therefore, not any and everybody, and what we are asking, really and truly, is in order to have somebody, like how we used to have it a long time when Mr. Cerullo was here, give more than one, go to give more than two, because that's our supervising officer.

32:13

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

whosoever in the office or because that is also no job description if there's any clerical staff or drivers we go to be able to supervise them so we have a play channel there right but when it have to come down now sometimes it skip the game button too and it come and say about this one go and do this this one here and do that so therefore it needs to have something click and i am asking

32:40

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

All right, so therefore, because whatever the problem that originates is that there are 16 modules, right? And the 16 one wants to notice not first, not central, south, central, south, east, southwest, right? That is the area of the man, right? That has changed.

33:03

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Right? That has changed. Right? And what happened is that because of that, the gay modern 2 is supposed to be in charge of a patrol. Right? At this point in time, there are certain patrols with all gay gay modern 2. So therefore...

33:25

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Therefore, what happened there seems to me to be something that is going wrong. Because if there's Northeast or Cavalier Model 2, it has somebody from Central to support them.

33:38

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Parts have had to be more than two for five officers, while they're supposed to be a game one, two for each patrol. Okay, so LPRS have, is there a difference of vacancy in this thing? Yeah, there are six game ones for each council, one for each council. Some are like two in parts. So what they have in there, there's a breakdown. Yeah.

34:02

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

in this structure that has been formed to run gay moderns and that leads to their trust. Mr Edwards. Mr Edwards, I don't want to say that there is a breakdown of the person or the opposite responsibility to manage the responsibilities of the gay moderns with the opposite conservator. Right?

34:26

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Even the utilization of staff, the conservator, that could fall under. And if the matter is for him to identify and clarify for you all who is his delegate in the conservancies or the state areas that you are referring to.

34:50

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Well then, I think it's self-brain saying we'll do that the right thing. I am from the regional government and the regional system is not currently using mobile.

35:15

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

All the reports since I made a decision come in through the system.

35:28

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

If you pull up any one or any report and come from maybe the software section, it starts really, for example, coming up here. So I don't know how many of them are aware that they have a, for example, in charge of clothes. It has range. The range is a higher range.

35:52

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I understand what you're saying. There are some things that maybe that needle would also get a little more in line with streamlining. You understand?

36:11

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

And to be honest, we don't want to disrespect the office. So we do follow the instructions from the office. So is it that you are getting instructions from too many persons? Is that the case? I think yes. And the other thing is that there's not actually a report. First time I'm hearing this, because when I'm writing a report...

36:36

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Right? It will happen to my gay modern too. Right? It's Sissy, Mr. Mohan, which is usually, which is the ACF. He was on holidays. Then after, the Heather Wildlife section, and then the cheap gay modern. It goes straight. That's how it is. So, if you are seeing gay modern too, um, Forrester 2, Forrester 3, and all this, therefore, there is something that is not clean.

37:02

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

There was a meeting and the other thing that...

37:39

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I have never retired report. Is there everybody else across the board who do not know about their system?

37:47

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

And the thing about it, I was not aware of that. But that is the thing about it. And if in the first, he said that there's supposed to be a meeting once every month for the section.

38:08

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I have came out from Sickleaf since the 24th of February and up to now it has been a year and two months and so therefore how is this information coming down to our supervisors and some of our supervisors seem to be confused. A year and two months since I came back out there has not been a wildlife section meeting.

38:33

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

And you can ask anyone not. The last meeting when I was on sick leave was October 24, 2024. And that is something that needs to be addressed. Because if that is so, if that is so, therefore...

38:54

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

All these things that we're talking about here may be able to be handled because the issues will have been going through these different sections. Before you go into another issue, on the matter of the lines of authority, are we clearer? Clearer as we understand. Yes. Yes. We don't have to say it. So then we are satisfied that the...

39:28

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

In terms of, I've built from water, Mr. Boris, I think you have a better understanding of that. He outlined clearly the structure that we should follow now, which is GW1-2 to Forrester-2. Forrester-3, ACF, and Biotris-CF. So I'm here in the absence of the forest, let's say, for instance, a more place unavailable.

39:58

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

to instruct.

40:00

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

It's a forester, right? So you will receive instructions in accordance with the rank.

40:11

S… Speaker 4 (Voice)

I don't usually receive instructions from the gay modern two, which is my supervisor. And they all have mentioned that there are some conservancies without the two, right? But I want to make something. You all invited Dishar to this meeting, right? In terms of the operations of forestry, in terms of reporting relationships.

40:38

S… Speaker 4 (Voice)

in terms of tasks, duties, utilization of staff, the conservator of forests.

40:47

S… Speaker 4 (Voice)

as the authority. HR cannot instruct the Conservator of Forest to put a game warden to there. And to put a game warden to there. The Conservator of Forest will utilize his staff as he sees with for optimal operations. Right? That is his rule. To ensure that forestry operates like clockwork.

41:16

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Well, what was made known to me by the executives in the union was that the important structure is supposed to be game one, game one, game one, two, to biologists, to conservators. And any changes of that has to go through the union and seek out, like, an official change in the structure supposed to come through the union to mention it to them.

41:48

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

When I came in there was a senior game morning too.

41:55

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Yes, I agree with that. We totally agree with that. There's something that we agree with. So I took the decision, there's no senior person everybody is saying. Okay. So that's why I put in that structure in place of quality to the public service organization. So when you separate, you fight. If I want to say that because you can have a senior again, we'll do two now. I'm shocking the rest of you again, we'll do two.

42:24

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Right, but you leave them all apart when they're talking about the whole shocker of us.

42:32

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

We have no problem with that. I try to formalize it. They have a formal way of reporting. And if there is a formal way of reporting in the quarantine division. So that being said, I was satisfied that there is a system that you may not have been aware of.

42:54

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Just to interrupt, we had a monthly meeting with the last, I don't know, I don't remember the date. And Mr. Dipchong Singh was there, Mr. Drang Singh was there. And they had put out that structure where Mr. Singh would have been supervised by getting all the hours for the duty to cut to the object commuted and so forth. The reported structure was implemented and that was done.

43:24

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

I'm shocked that some of you all didn't know, but that was in that meeting. I just want to ask for you to provide me a little bit of clarification, Sarah. You said that the union must be involved in changes to destruct your property. I would like, if you're going to come here, if you're going to make a statement like that, work with your...

43:54

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

Guidelines showing us whether that was agreed upon. So I would like to submit that to us please. Alright, so let us move on to the next point. The other point being direction or modification of game warden responsibilities outside their defined scope. So this is your position description you are talking about.

44:29

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

and they do a job description and a position description, right? They define scope. So tell me what you mean by that. Well, we supervise the, I think it's the daily pay staff, or the clerical staff, and we go to the vehicle driver. Guys who put on the output. Yeah, guys who put on the output, we are according to the regulation, so we think what we want, right?

45:01

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

We haven't done all of our performance up results since we haven't done performance up.

45:13

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

One of the other descriptions. Well, since we came here, every time we do job description, for the performance appraisal, it always says that human one supervises the clerical staff and the multiple drivers. So that would be against any scenario like in the south, where sales are going on, right?

45:40

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

I mean, delegate staff have to report to a delegate staff. So if you are a clerical staff performing and writing up comments, do you want to supervise that?

45:50

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

Well, I mean, in terms of that, we really wanted to want any crew, any office. Right? Because that's how it, you know? But as of now, we don't instruct the drivers in all the cars. Yeah, but it has to be in a position description for when the need arises, when it is the supervisor and the required staff. We can be able to do that because we have the required staff attached to the section.

46:19

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Yeah, that's up there.

46:22

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

That's how we're on off. That's how we're on off. So it's really our system. When I see the administrative staff, I believe we see the administrative staff.

46:50

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

They have 3 minutes of us on the JMC and what is the things that we believe while the sound distribution is the requirement of supervision of big things.

47:13

S… Speaker 5 (Voice)

For example, a gay woman may be asked to sit in an office and that, for example, when they are selling state gay license, they're hunting clothes. There are instances where a gay gay can't caution a person who brought in a late last year's clothing in violation of the wildlife life.

47:31

S… Speaker 5 (Voice)

So that portion has to come from an A1 so their presence is required in certain offices. But what we do is that we rotate these offices so none is fixed there unless someone has some disability preventing them from going in the field and we are allowing them to continue work, they would be fixed to an office and that would have occurred. So that's an example of how A1 is asked to come and sit with me as a student.

47:59

S… Speaker 5 (Voice)

It falls under part of their duties because the signatures that are required and the receiving and so on. Even though we have some daily pays doing it, it normally would fall under the mandate of April 21st.

48:26

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I was trying to get a copy of the job description and I know it's all just the description the last time it has other related duties. So if it's supervision, that would have been other related duties. So is it not your honor, but it's you with the supervision or you think that you should be supervising what it is? No, but it's more like you report on the structure of how we see it on our...

48:54

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

We can't we can't survive

49:00

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

We have no issues with drivers. If we are a patrol driver, we can't shop them. It was made clear to us before. So who is the senior man on the patrol? Can you shop the driver? Yes. Wait, wait, wait. Perfect. Right on how the patrol takes place.

49:25

S… Speaker 4 (Voice)

right is that the most senior officer on the patrol with reference the seniority with reference the years right will be the person who is in charge of the patrol right however vehicles

49:44

S… Speaker 4 (Voice)

has been a major problem and I want to believe through all the forestry division. I want to believe so. Right? So, in other words, if we have to go on a...

50:00

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Patrol, we will use our personal vehicles as best as possible, right? And yes, if we are on a patrol and you see any game mode that is how I know it will help me so with me when I am on patrol, right? Any game mode that's on patrol and says I drive down, we can instruct the driver.

50:25

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

So I want to make that clear. We have the authorization to instruct a driver within the performance of the duties of the job. Because if there's anything go wrong, there's something called... We have a peculiar liability. I'm struggling to understand what...

50:53

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

The major concern that we had at first was the reporting structure which was made clear. We're talking about the supervision of staff now.

51:15

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

All right, so... Because game 1-1, game 1-2. Right, just please let us stick to the item. Okay, no problem. So somebody game 1-2 is now receiving structure. It is not... Because that was supposed to be tied into the National Park Session. But I believe they say... What's up right here? Well, pertaining to that, it would have more been Park Session.

51:44

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

But unfortunately, he said that we wouldn't be speaking about that. I have no problem with that. I understand that. So we can always be right. I just want to ask you again, sir. We just mentioned the supervision of staff and the related staff and all of that.

52:00

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

What is your challenge in respect of that?

52:28

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

Initially when we came into the service.

52:41

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

So we're going on to the issuance of verbal instructions without corresponding written accountability. Yes, that is something that we have been receiving.

52:57

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Benefit of all of us who have given you verbal instructions? At any monthly meeting, not even monthly meeting, sorry. There will be verbal indications of procedures, but no follow-up and random.

53:20

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

So you all do take global instructions? We do take global instructions, but when we ask for clarification or is this the right procedure, we don't get nothing.

53:37

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

So you would rather instructions in writing, is that it? No, because that really is supposed to be with the issuance or to be committed over time allowance. I don't think generally we persons ask for instructions in writing when they're having challenges with... Yes, like the issuance or to be formally committed over time allowance, right? When we brought up the issuance, we committed over time allowance.

54:00

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

We asked for a clarification on if there could be anything put in writing. So give me an example of what instruction that you would have received and why you feel it would be better because it's not writing. I just want to interject here. One of the things that I want to say.

54:27

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

as I mentioned earlier, and it links to that, is that we have, every week, we have something called an itinerator right now, in order to account for where we are going, right? And there is a book mandated by the ministry that is normal, right? However, however, there is now a form

54:55

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

right that put because there are sometimes

55:00

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

And some officers must be in office, right? Based on what, um, argument to say, all right, we want this one in office, you come in office in order to assist, um, with the duties of the public. Now, if there is an itinerary form, right, indicating where officers are, what is now that has been mandated by the ministry, which comes straight from the printer, that is numbered, why is there now a next sheet?

55:29

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

that we have to fall out. And it seems to me that it takes the place of what the ministry has led out to fall out. I have understood that.

55:43

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

No, no, no, you have the itinerary and that you took, right? Which is what you do for it. And I guess the section will have included that, right? For the covers to calculate the committee, right? What was the purpose of that and form that the section implement for later putting their same information from the itinerary? So the covers have been formed by the company, joint patrols.

56:14

S… Speaker 4 (Voice)

That's the error. So the tool is responsible. It means the two later sheet, saying where will be station one, what period will be put to them, and the one will come on the side and re-enter that.

56:25

S… Speaker 4 (Voice)

which you already have an itinerary of which when they have to meet everything as expected and I'm only going to have it. So it's not reinventing the wheel. It's an advising supervisor of the section. It gives a clear picture. Rather than you have to go to 40 something and itinerary is to be a bad information. One sheet will capture all information.

56:49

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

For everybody. Yeah, and it is done by unit. Right? It is done by unit. The efficiency, when we have vehicles, that we call it vehicles, or we call it vehicles, and that was the duration. But the thing about it, that's what I want to do. I mean, just say, we... No, but... You ask about it. What is this?

57:13

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

No, but the thing about it, Mr. Amir... We are determined for something to serve better and effectively manage and get out.

57:37

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

So it is a process that they put in place. It is a process that they put in place.

57:50

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

It's something separate, so that it's individual. But in terms of management of the whole...

58:10

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Something has been said that is not correct. One itinerary will be for a patrol unit. It's not everybody in the patrol unit given an itinerary.

58:24

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

the same purpose this form is is is playing is the same purpose the itinerary just let me explain so therefore southwest has an itinerary they will drop northwest will have an itinerary they do up and this now will account for officers wherever they go right how could we do joint patrol if we don't have vehicles

58:50

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

The joint patrols, a long time I haven't done a joint patrol. I can't tell them last I do a joint patrol. So all of them traveling that are coming together, that you have been saying that you have been five officers who reach these things for now. No, no, no, no, no. Joint patrols, Mr. Amir, I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Well, a joint patrol, if you say not.

59:18

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

I have a different understanding of joint patrol. Because a joint patrol, if you say a joint patrol, then every day we're doing a joint patrol because the team going out. But what I'm saying, if one team in Northwest is doing an itinerary, and you are saying that a joint patrol on the same team, the two people are saying the same thing.

59:38

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

What is the difference? I was always on the itinerary. Itinerary and the paper.

1:00:00

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

I was just going to say this is an operational matter. I just want to tell you something. You see, everybody around this table. We have been here to be on work and get things accomplished. I just want to point that out.

1:00:27

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Some of the issues that I'm hearing here, I feel I should not have been privy to. And my time would have been better served if I was in my office where I am highly utilized. I have been on this quarter to six this morning. Trying to do things for the PS.

1:00:44

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Right, I am here in response to a request from Mr. Ramutha and most of the issues I am hearing here could have been discussed if you had met with Mr. Ruknarek Singh. So, please refrain from using the grievance process.

1:01:03

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

for matters like this, except and when and only when your terms and conditions of employment is being challenged or breached. These are operational matters. You all can discuss it further and get to the bottom of it and on top of it. Right? Anything has consequences on our views of the process.

1:01:27

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

That has to be on the record for you. And please go back to the native matter. Right? We went on the cinema. Yeah. With regards to the... Because honestly, it ties into the next part of the community, right? When the issuance of the community, when the last operation began, we asked for correspondence. I specifically...

1:01:57

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

The introduction of a form was created. I asked the legality of the form. I was not given anything. All I got was this is how we interpreted and this is how it's going to go forward.

1:02:26

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

The operation of permitted overtime was done by a person taking a secret. Taking any day off, reducing the amount of time, the amount of permitted overtime you all would have been getting. Right? And reading the old circulars.

1:02:46

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

I interpret it as if you take two sick leaves and you work in 39 hours, you will be paid for. So that's why we developed that book to show that you work in 39 hours. Can I interject for one second? Yes sir. If you take five sick leaves and you work 40 hours in time, that's how we interpret the...

1:03:07

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

They committed overtime. They committed overtime, circular, and then to be. So basically, we're just not automatically operated. That's why we developed that form. So every week, we know that overtime hours are not to more than 39 hours.

1:03:29

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

Right? So, which was supposed to be a positive for them? Because if it was happening before, if they take one technique, they're dividing it by 21 days, dividing by the amount, and then they're dividing it by, so you're getting one day less.

1:03:46

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

It's okay. Right? So it was supposed to be a form to say we have the help of it. Right. So with regards to that now, right, there were instances now where officers may exceed the 40 or the 39 and a half, right? And there were 50 or something. I think one basically. Right. Or instances where they would have been parated less. So we have been punished for working more even though the cap is at 40.

1:04:13

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

They were deducted from the phone even though we were more than the phone, right? That is what was happening. Mr. Barrows went on vacation, came back in January for three days, worked the 39 and a half and exceeded it, I believe.

1:04:35

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

If something like that happens, I have no problem with rectifying the situation. Right, so if that's the case, we'll move it on to the next point. Mr. Procurenting has indicated he will look at the lab and rectify it. If that's the case, we have no problem with rectifying it. But it will be a one-off because I know I'm trying to be the best friend for the team.

1:05:01

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

So restrictions impacting field enforcement activities. Same thing, right? And the administrative inconsistency is useless. But Sipio would have addressed that last one. I would like to add him to that.

1:05:25

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Yeah, yeah. Right. So when we receive that signal, as indicated, it goes on a little bit of videos with regards to the instructions, etc. Eye to legal section would have write a CPU. Right? CPU would have taken a little while to respond. Right? CPU will indicate now that they have been... But then here, CPU will indicate the change of the terminology that they have with it.

1:05:53

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

When they have previously, it was based on 39 hours. Right? That is what I said. Based on 39 hours. The allowance is based on when you have the rate of 39 hours. That is exactly what it says. That means you have to meet. Yes. Right. So, now, you know what, CPO is telling me, and I have to write back the book. CPO indicated, right, in excess of 39 hours. Right.

1:06:29

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

So it's still ambiguous as to the response that they gave it. The original cyclist that defended this was the...

1:06:43

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

The words were based on 39 hours. Okay, so what are you saying there? Ministry of Finance also responded. Right, I have the same statement. But this last one now, they make it more ambiguous by saying...

1:06:57

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

to deny our excess wood. So there is a problem with the wooding or the understanding of the... So, two things in this, right? So the outline whatever, because you asked a further question. Paragraph 5. In light of the above, notwithstanding the concerns outlined in paragraph 2 above, the advice provided by the CEO in memoranda dated February 2, 2025.

1:07:25

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

And December 17, 2020, in that all game wardens, game wardens 1s, 2s and motor vehicle drivers are to be paid controller in full based on 39 excess hours remains relevant at this time. So meaning that remains in full remains. However, if it is, you have concerns and you want it to be reviewed.

1:07:52

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

This is where you do this part and you send it, where they will review and of course they have to contact with the association to have it reviewed and at that time, when it is signed up, then it will be. So this is two instructors.

1:08:19

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

based on 39 hours. So it is big because some were more and some were less. So they use an average. So they use an average. So they use an average. So it's two different terminologies. There's three things they say differently there. Yes. Now what I mean, all these terminologies them before is based on 39 hours. While this number five, you can tell me, in excess of 39 hours.

1:08:52

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I understand what you're saying, right? I agree not if you see that.

1:09:21

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I would like to ask a side question. How are these approaches?

1:09:29

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I get a directive and force the directive by telling me section go ahead and start to put things into this. Right. While I seek more clients. Understand when you see the word, you get the directive, right? What was the directive? To purr it. To purr it? To purr the community. Because prior to 2023, we have not been purr it. You're telling what I'm sure. Right? When you're starting to do it. 2021. Yeah, you're going to go. I'm telling you, right? When you took a sick leave.

1:10:03

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I don't think anybody did.

1:10:22

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Before that time, what happened is that if you take a cyclic parade, even though sometimes you exceed yours, it's the parade.

1:10:40

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

and this is this is now where we get to the money school because all the parishion that happened before officers have actually lost i'm not saying that we want it today or tomorrow nothing like that right i'm just saying this is what we lost to officers

1:11:03

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

We don't know their case in terms of how they see money or whatever, right? And I think that, as I say, it should be reviewed because... It's not even reviewed. Yeah. It's not even reviewed. Yeah. And there is two-day evidence reviewing, and the system is not in place, so you don't have to go to them. Because there is nothing to say there, we can go back. You know, there is no evidence before, well, it was the treated for anybody who gets prohibited basically.

1:11:30

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

The only thing that happened that we will treat and we will treat that really well is what we're going to use to show that it was prohibited in order to pay for your opinion. But I know for sure prior to 2021 I took the sick leaveanting and it was not prohibited each month and also which mentioned to the community when they started in 2021.

1:11:54

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

For the first three months, I didn't get any. When I started it, December 2021, from December 2021 to May 2022, two other officers came in. They got me committed, but I didn't see who did not. You have to work with evidence when you're committed and committed to so that I can... I have it on... No, I was saying that you're not going to be able to make a decision. But I wrote about it. I see no letter. So the thing about it is that when you work with the evidence, if you didn't meet with me...

1:12:24

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I cannot put systems in place. But is it that you have been, now that we have all my things that I go back to HR before I go back to you? No, I mean, I understand. I just tell you, the approach I can take now is that you have been already writing to me, already writing to HR. So every day I send them back to HR, only HR will send it to you. And it's not what we did in regards to having it, but I genuinely wanted clarity without any disclosure.

1:12:54

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Well, that is what I'm here for.

1:13:18

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

What is this guy? Yeah, it doesn't have one. Yeah, by your garage or not. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

1:13:47

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I mean, I think this should be sufficient. I mean, to be honest, when the issuance of the form was started, and officers were seen in the 40 hours, and then taken sick leave, and then it was being inducted from the cutoff point in the 40 hours.

1:14:07

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

It's a disadvantage to officers. Without any event that anyone did, anything happening like that, it will be rectified. Because the thing about it is, to me, or my interpreter previously, was that they wanted to be Titi. And we were asked, I'm not saying this is for you, because I know we didn't talk to you prior to Titi, right? But when we spoke to management...

1:14:35

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

the exact words that was said to me was we're not seeking clarification i think this is all we have been asking for lightly well if i give if i give an instruction to them if they tell you that come to me well knowing that now that is not an issue

1:15:00

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Please don't copy charos or something like... I think I wrote a letter to... I don't say that the part has a lot of effort but there are things once you know an approach to certain conditions, then you can use the three months process. And we have the JCC. And the JCC as well.

1:15:25

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

All right, so I think going forward now, we have a lot of things discussed and clarified. So, but you know, let me just recap and everything. We okay with the...

1:15:39

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

If we have any issues, we come to you. Well, start through the section. Well, yeah, sorry, sorry. Yeah, if you have to go through the section, you can have government secretary and come and move. So, I feel like I just have some questions. So, when we have, if we have an issue, we write the forest tattoo, then the forest tattoo, then the... Yeah, don't come with the channel, don't come with me. No, no, I think, I think, um...

1:16:04

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

That would be too bureaucratic. I think once, if you're right, you need to call it step two, and who you want to be.

1:16:14

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Who you would designate as the step one? Step one officer. Right, right, directly to the head of the tank. Or the ACF. Or the ACF, yes. Or the ACF, yes. Supervisors. He back out from vacation. No, no, no. I mean, Mr. Moore here, we say he back out from vacation.

1:16:41

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Right, so we will write to the ACF or the balance if you are not present. That means if we write to everybody, there are too many steps that are not legal. So, Mr. Amir, we do have a clarity with reference to you. If we have a problem, we write to the ACF or the, I don't know, access. You can write to the ACF and you are present people so that they can just move to 2007.

1:17:09

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

to put the recommendation. Because if you write to me direct, I will have a comment. I understand. No, we understand. We understand. It's the first step.

1:17:20

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

What to do right to the ECF? Right to the biologist. The biologist, okay. Head of section. Head of section. So that he can be able to say, hey, what is the problem here? Right. By the time the biologist get it, he can be able to say, hey, the recommendation is so and so. Why is this happening? Right? So because the thing about it, if it reached me, I had to get something from the biologist. Right. What are the issues? How do we see what results are now?

1:17:56

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I think it's seven days. After seven working days, he did not get a response. You're right. Because sometimes people keep things on the desk and don't lock anything and they don't get from there.

1:18:16

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

forms and things we will have to do with the but we will not be getting an action book. And you can do an action book. I never stopped doing it on the itinerary because that's the same thing. You don't have no free lock as well. Right. So that's the issue and study the forms for the army, for the community. She said, go with this car. So I will move forward from that.

1:18:44

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

And could they answer for the money? No, I still have to maintain that or I don't know how much of us in it. That form is telling me how much of us should be paid for the money. No, they're still taking the form, but there's usually an error. Right. I had to determine how much of us that year for the money. Right, but I'm talking about the payment of the community now. Would it continue to be corrected or be this?

1:19:20

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

You want a copy of this one also? I have copies. When I receive this, it has about eight appendices in this and I only receive one of the appendices. If you also cite the cabinet minute. Yeah, the cabinet minute and the previous members. All right, when you cite the cabinet minute, that's the authority, yeah?

1:19:42

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Yeah, but what I said, they have about eight other ones.

1:20:00

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I have copies and responses to the queries.

1:20:26

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

We can follow up at the office. I don't have a problem. I'm following up at the office. So that is a very real concern. I understand this is what is happening effectively.

1:21:14

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

That is why maybe a little bit decision.

1:21:19

S… Speaker 3 (Voice)

I'm not too wrong with that. You understand? But I don't want you all to think that you have done because I'll never give you one section of PSA that you have done. I'll never be able to really respond to 3D Office of the Council telling me I'm doing PSA. I'm not taking that from no section of PSA. I know my responsibility. I hope that you are no one of my responsibility.

1:21:53

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

Thank you.

1:22:02

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

It's the coolest thing you do. Because then if you don't do that, you can't go back, you can't go to the water and say, I tried to move with it. That would be misleading. It should not just descend into the city.

1:22:40

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Let me just end by reiterating the importance of dialogue and engaging.

1:22:57

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

and that from which you belong to the other levels. And I encourage you all to really bring matters to the management of your stations and your conservancies.

1:23:19

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

consider and discuss and if that does not happen, you bring it to them in writing and feeling that if you are not, you don't get a response favorable or not within seven days, you write any officer to consider them so that he can be noted, so to get his attention, to be notified and informed that there's an issue brewing here and that warrants his involvement, right?

1:23:48

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

I think you have touched on the issues that you wrote up to us in writing. It proves from this national part. I encourage you, if you have matters that affect your terms and conditions of employment, you write your immediate supervisor to get...

1:24:07

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

You write to the office of your conservator for engagement, right? So he can hear your concerns, but always bear in mind that not every issue is an issue.

1:24:23

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

impacts your tools and violates your rights as an employee. You understand the things that are fairly operational have to be trashed out internally and not really come to the ministry or the PS under the banner of PSE because then it will send a message that okay industrial unrest is taking place somewhere in the ministry and it is kind of misinforming the office of the PS.

1:24:52

S… Speaker 2 (Voice)

Getting our international involvement sometimes is costly. My time is going to be spending two in something else.

1:25:00

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

We are here to discuss some of the issues that you have brought and you all are satisfied to a great extent with the responses from the conservator and hopefully by the next time we all meet. We will not meet from step 3 but we can get things resolved at step 1. Conservator has given this commitment to providing feedback to you all and the commitment allowance within a month from now.

1:25:27

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I trust that he will do that. Alright, so thank you all for coming. Thank you for your patience. We started a bit late. And we can. Thank you.

1:25:53

S… Speaker 1 (Voice)

I'll keep everyone going. Thank you.

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