New Recording 14

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S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

This is not the place to try to cut a lot of costs.

0:02

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

This can be,

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S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

again,

0:06

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

not a showcase because that's overstating the retail component,

0:08

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

but again,

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S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

it does play a significant impact on the revenue side.

0:13

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

I think

0:18

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

one thing we'll need to do,

0:19

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

talking about edits and getting this all wrapped up.

0:24

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

looking at this program versus what we actually ended

0:28

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

up with with the configuration at Waterloo.

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S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

If there's anything,

0:32

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

we'll go back and take a quick gut

0:37

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

check of that.

0:38

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

This certainly has the components,

0:39

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

but there might have been some finessing of some of the square footages as those layouts

0:43

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

kind of wrapped up,

0:45

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

but this is certainly a reasonable starting point.

0:48

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Then we

0:53

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

get to the Apple Clinic areas themselves.

0:58

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

And I did some of this from memory,

1:00

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

and I have some questions about this,

1:02

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

so we'll probably do some edits here as we go along.

1:05

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

We've organized this into a

1:10

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

couple different buckets,

1:11

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

and I'll talk about those before we get to the line -by -line.

1:14

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

So we have clinic,

1:15

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

exam rooms,

1:17

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

and testing,

1:18

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

so photography spaces.

1:19

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Then we have the contact lens areas,

1:23

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

which were in addition to the general clinic.

1:27

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Then we have the low vision and rehab areas.

1:31

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

And then we have clinical support spaces,

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S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

supplies,

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S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

and also workplace areas.

1:39

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

So we can kind of walk through these one by one.

1:43

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

From memory,

1:45

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

I was remembering that we wanted to look at...

1:49

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

24 exam rooms and I just made an assumption based on

1:53

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

some of our previous discussions that 20 of those would be standard

1:57

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

size and four of those would be a little bit larger

2:01

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

which could be both for accessible or also pediatrics

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S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

because we do have family members and others coming in to those rooms as well.

2:10

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

So let me pause there and see if that's in alignment with what I remember hearing

2:14

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

from the last conversation.

2:18

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

In our last one,

2:20

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

we had 12.

2:21

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

And so I'm just curious about how this ties

2:25

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

to our cohort size.

2:27

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

That's the only question I have.

2:28

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

And the last thing,

2:31

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

we hadn't covered the other aspects,

2:35

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

pediatrics,

2:36

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

and I think with ocular diseases,

2:40

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

and we talked about having specialized ones

2:45

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

to build that flexibility and make sure there is enough.

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S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

flexibility.

2:50

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

But let's make sure this is right.

2:54

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

So I thought for Dr.

2:55

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

Wu's thoughts.

2:59

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So I think Naomi's

3:03

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

right. It depends on how that cohort size is organized.

3:06

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So if you have 48,

3:08

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

I think at least for lab sections,

3:11

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

you guys are imagining groups of 12.

3:13

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

Is that right?

3:13

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

Indeed.

3:15

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

And that's how the preclinical component is

3:19

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

set up as well.

3:20

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

Four sections

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S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

of 12 students.

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S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

I think

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S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

part of variables that need

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S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

to be sort of confirmed then,

3:42

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

let's just do sort of the contact lens part.

3:46

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So there is advanced contact lens,

3:48

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

and then there's contact lens that's integrated into the primary care.

3:52

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So I think this part is the specialty contact

3:56

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

lens that's adjacent.

3:57

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

Is that right, Tim?

3:58

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

Do you recall?

3:59

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

Yes, right.

4:00

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Okay.

4:00

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So I think that's one thing to clarify.

4:02

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So soft contact lens is part of primary eye care.

4:05

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

It will be done in the primary care space.

4:08

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

And whether or not we ended up actually combining

4:12

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

the fitting and inventory storage because we had that sort of racetrack approach,

4:17

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

that would be something just to tease out between advanced contact lens and

4:21

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

the contact lens.

4:23

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So one of the challenges right now,

4:26

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

without knowing exactly how you're deploying everything,

4:28

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

is across all four years of the program,

4:30

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

fourth years tend to be out two

4:35

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

of the three terms.

4:36

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So that means that in a class of 48,

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S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

you have one third of them.

4:41

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

Yeah,

4:44

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

see, that number then starts to get a little funky,

4:46

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

right? Because that's 16.

4:48

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

uh as far as having 16 fourth years sort of at the mothership

4:52

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

in any one term in the fourth year and then in the third year

4:56

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

depending on when you start clinic you're going to

5:00

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

They're on across the four or five,

5:02

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

potentially six days,

5:03

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

your 48 students,

5:05

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

but they're not in clinic every day.

5:06

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

And then your second year students,

5:10

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

one of the pushes that students are asking for is earlier

5:14

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

introduction into primary care and things.

5:16

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

So I think what needs to be sort of modeled out is

5:21

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

where are you going to have these students from each year in

5:26

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

clinic, and then you can optimize the number of rooms,

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S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

starting with primary care contact lens,

5:32

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

that integration,

5:33

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

and then the additional rooms beyond that,

5:36

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

you can decide how many students,

5:38

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

particularly fourth years,

5:39

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

you're going to have in your specialty services,

5:41

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

if that makes sense.

5:44

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

So would you,

5:45

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

and then I think this is where Andre would probably have a better idea because this,

5:48

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

the Rubens Cube aspect of it,

5:50

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

he's solved many times and is much more proficient

5:54

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

at that detail because he,

5:56

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

I think,

5:57

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

understood your concept to be a lot more flexible.

6:00

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

versus the experience that I've had where we actually have specialty areas.

6:04

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

And I think you want to maximize utilization,

6:07

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

which makes a lot of sense.

6:08

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

So having less sort of being less encumbered by a neighborhood

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S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

per se that's designated for a specialty.

6:15

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

So that will give you more flexibility in making sure that you utilize all your rooms

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S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

all the time.

6:20

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

The downside potentially as your,

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S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

you know, whatever specialty services become more popular or become,

6:25

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

you'll be,

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S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

you'll be limited in how you then start to schedule all that stuff.

6:30

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

So those are sort of the pros and cons.

6:32

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

And maybe literally what we could do is just kind of put a note in here to double

6:36

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

check with Andre to see if he can help us map that out with Lisa Christian

6:40

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

so that we combine the ClinEd and the clinic assignments.

6:44

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

for a cohort of 48 just to give again an approximation of

6:49

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

how those rooms would would be organized uh because

6:53

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

i think yeah i i don't want to i don't want to speak out of turn because i think andre

6:57

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

had given this some thought and i i don't know how he solved it thanks

7:01

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

dan that would be great because i mean that's the we we on our team don't have

7:05

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

the expertise to to do that rubik's cubing

7:08

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Yeah, but I think this is where we need to get some guidance from

7:12

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

you guys as far as how you're envisioning it,

7:14

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

right? So our original pass was,

7:16

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

oh, we're not really going to do specialties,

7:17

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

we'll add it later.

7:18

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

And then, okay,

7:19

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

if that's the case,

7:20

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

then it's a different configuration.

7:22

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

But I don't know that we got confirmation about what specialties you

7:26

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

wanted to have or didn't want to have or how ambitious you wanted to be in those spaces.

7:30

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

I kind of highlighted rehab as one just because it looked like rehab was a permanent

7:34

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

footprint at MRU.

7:35

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

it would be something that would be probably favorable.

7:38

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

But again, these are all the different trade -offs that I think we have to kind of decide together.

7:42

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

So maybe what we can do is,

7:44

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

as we go through with Tim and walk line by line,

7:47

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

we can kind of surface these questions and then start figuring out more specifically,

7:51

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

how do you want to nail these down?

7:53

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

And then our two teams can take it offline and then start to parse it out.

7:57

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Because I actually don't know most of the answers to most of these things,

8:00

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

but I know people who do.

8:02

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

So that's why I want to just be clear.

8:04

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

It takes a whole team in order to be able to understand all this stuff.

8:07

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

And Tim and the whole HOK team was great at working with us on

8:11

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

that part and the iteration.

8:12

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

That's why,

8:13

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Tim, you're right.

8:14

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

I mean, at the final final,

8:16

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

there were some finesses and things as well.

8:18

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

But I think this is actually a really helpful way to at least set the stage

8:22

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

for how we make these decisions intentionally.

8:26

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

I would say in terms of sort of how we wish to

8:30

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

focus the program and what specializations we are interested in,

8:33

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

I think that we had a conversation at some point in

8:37

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

the last weeks,

8:38

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

and we talked about primary care,

8:41

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

ocular disease,

8:42

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

and pediatrics.

8:43

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

That's what we talked about.

8:45

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

And so

8:49

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

Gay or others on our end of the...

8:52

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

If there's any,

8:53

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

if you remember anything differently,

8:55

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

but I think that was what we talked about as a focus.

8:59

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

I think that's what you're talking about as well,

9:02

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Naomi.

9:02

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So I think when you're looking at what sizes we need,

9:05

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

because I think we're always cautious,

9:07

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

the building will not be built for a couple of years,

9:09

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

let's just say.

9:10

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

Anyway,

9:11

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

so if we're starting a program and we have 48,

9:14

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

could you bracket what it would take to add an additional 12

9:18

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

students?

9:19

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

Just so that we're aware if we're adding,

9:22

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

and sorry,

9:23

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

Amy, I spoke right over top of you.

9:25

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

I didn't wait my turn at all.

9:26

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Sorry.

9:27

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So if you could do that,

9:29

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

just kind of bracket it so we know what decisions we're making.

9:32

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

Because you're right,

9:33

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

every time I look at this,

9:34

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

I get stumped and I go,

9:35

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

did we agree to this?

9:36

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

What are we doing again?

9:37

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So I'm trying to write it down so I can get it permanently embedded in my brain

9:41

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

and know how we're going to grow.

9:42

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

Because I think there's always a risk,

9:45

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

a good risk,

9:46

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

that within 10 years we could be looking at a larger

9:50

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

cohort if everything went as we planned.

9:53

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So just some kind of awareness.

9:55

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

at the back of our mind what decision we're making so it's an intentional decision

9:59

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

would be

10:00

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

super helpful.

10:00

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

Thanks.

10:01

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

That is really

10:05

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

a good point.

10:06

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

And it kind of underlines a question I had

10:11

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

for you all.

10:11

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

Whenever we build a new program that is at

10:15

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

the intersection of some existing programs,

10:18

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

a great place to start tends to be what are your

10:22

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

core competencies already?

10:25

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Right.

10:26

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

And those are the strengths we want to build at a minimum.

10:29

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Right.

10:30

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

And I think the three things you said,

10:32

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

the primary care is a no brainer.

10:34

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

Pediatrics and ocular disease seem to be

10:38

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

that way.

10:38

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

The other one that came to mind and I believe was discussed last time

10:43

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

that you all probably want to rethink or reconsider is rehab

10:47

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

because of all the components we've talked about in the

10:51

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

larger program or we have to.

10:55

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

And maybe it is a competency that is not integrated.

10:58

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

But again,

11:00

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

I think it has helped us help our clients

11:04

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

make that decision if we come from a position of strength.

11:07

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

The strength of combining

11:12

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

the two programs.

11:14

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

And I think you're already headed there.

11:21

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

so it may be just teasing it apart again so we know that if we're adding

11:25

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

rehab we're adding this much more space so we can be really the

11:30

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

messaging is really clear then okay thank you highlight the space gay look at

11:34

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

the darn chart and then you'll see how much there is but it's really helpful as you're walking

11:38

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

through to say okay so this is how much extra space we would need

11:41

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

to do to be able to add this.

11:43

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

And I think it's the faculty pieces we're thinking of too,

11:45

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

Stan. We know that we need a certain number of faculty to start.

11:48

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

The number of specialties we would need logically,

11:51

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

at least for me,

11:53

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

would be we would need a certain number of people specializing in each of those different

11:57

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

areas.

11:57

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

I mean,

11:58

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

primary would be across the board.

12:00

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

If you have a specialty,

12:01

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

you've done primary as well.

12:02

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

But if you have,

12:04

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

is it likely we would have?

12:07

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

uh rehab and pediatric in the same person are we looking for

12:11

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

two different faculty members so we need to you it's hard to just have a faculty

12:15

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

member in an area you probably need more than one Stan's nodding so

12:19

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

that's good I that's I'm on the right track so we need to kind of be aware of

12:23

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

that in our faculty numbers when we're looking at offices when we're looking at cost of the program

12:27

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

all of those things we need to be aware that we're as we add specialties we

12:32

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

are adding additional costs across the board and then

12:35

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

Do we have a critical mass of students to be able to have students

12:40

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

look at these specialties?

12:42

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

Or do we just assume every student wants every specialty?

12:44

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

Or would they kind of go off in different directions?

12:48

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

And is our cohort size large enough to have four,

12:52

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

like the primary plus three specialties?

12:55

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

And again,

12:55

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

I don't know.

12:56

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

So that would be a question that would be really helpful for me to understand.

13:02

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

So,

13:02

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Lily,

13:03

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

we need to get Gay talking to Nat and Lisa

13:07

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

Christian because this is sort of more philosophical

13:11

S… Speaker 6 (New Recording 14)

territory.

13:12

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

So it's not that you have to have everybody do every specialty.

13:16

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

And so within the cohort...

13:19

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

I think being able to have the option is attractive.

13:23

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

But in the States,

13:24

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

for example, there's some schools where folks don't rotate to look through low vision rehab because they're

13:28

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

either not interested,

13:29

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

not wired, there isn't space for them.

13:31

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

And so there is some flexibility.

13:34

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

Our creditors are not prescriptive.

13:37

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

So it doesn't say thou shalt have this many hours of this,

13:40

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

that, the other thing.

13:41

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

You can sort of tailor it.

13:43

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

And then going back to Ami's point before,

13:45

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

I think one of the sort of

13:48

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

points of emphasis for mru would also be really being a strong

13:52

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

primary eye care school right being able to start with that with your other health professions

13:56

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

there's still opportunities to do it in professional collaborative practice as well so i

14:00

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

think the story can can be told in a variety of different ways and

14:04

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

so this is where i think you know we'll really defer to to gay and

14:09

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

the mru team to say you know here's who we are here's what we want

14:13

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

to be here's what we want to be known for

14:15

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

And I think, after the disease bundling it together,

14:17

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

it does have that intersection between sort of what is expected of

14:21

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

a primary care provider,

14:23

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

but also the cachet and notoriety of Alberta being one of the leading provinces

14:27

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

for scope modernization.

14:29

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

So I think your differentiator will be,

14:32

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

if it's like Alberta is the first to crack that nut,

14:34

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

just like Oklahoma in the U .S.

14:37

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

then you will have more than enough candidates clamoring to come to MRU

14:41

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

to do primary eye care,

14:42

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

which includes and encompasses medical eye care.

14:45

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

So that's why,

14:46

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

you know,

14:47

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

there are lots of different ways of doing it.

14:49

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

And again, I'm also sensitive to the fact that if you're thinking about it,

14:53

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

staging it also,

14:54

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

because what I'm trying to do is to make sure that you,

14:56

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

you know,

14:57

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

what do you want to have at the end of the day when you're at maturity?

15:00

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

then you can work backwards from there and then figure out how that phases so whether

15:04

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

that includes adding an additional 12 students or adding faculty specialists later

15:08

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

in the program and starting up because i'm also mindful that you're starting brand new

15:12

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

so you're not going to have fourth year and third year students until the first years actually get to

15:16

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

that point so in designing all this element i think your

15:20

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

faculty hiring plan also is going to be staged right but we want a

15:24

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

budget for the

15:26

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

the actual thing at maturity so we know what the entire sort of you know

15:30

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

the sticker price is and not going oh well we

15:34

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

only figured out the budget for the first two years and then you have to add in later so i

15:38

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

think that's the part where uh again the conversation with with nat and

15:43

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

lisa christian will be really important so that you can just

15:47

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

brainstorm about what the range of possibilities are

15:50

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

And again,

15:51

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

I would encourage you to be very clear about how you want to face that.

15:54

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So that's the part where we don't have visibility on how you're thinking about,

15:58

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

okay, how are you handling the first year,

16:00

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

the second year,

16:01

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

third year?

16:01

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

When would it make sense for you to hire folks?

16:04

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

And then we can match that to what the accreditation requirements are

16:08

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

as well.

16:08

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

Okay.

16:11

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

Yeah,

16:12

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

thanks, Dan.

16:13

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

I mean, from my perspective,

16:14

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

if there is a way for us as we are building this information out to...

16:19

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Keep a tight focus on the need to have in terms of those three

16:24

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

disciplines and the accreditation process and a cohort of 48.

16:28

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Like that's table stakes.

16:30

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

That's what we need.

16:31

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

And anything over and above that is kind of nice to have

16:35

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

in the future.

16:38

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

If there's a way to flag that so we can track it,

16:41

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

even if it means we're tracking a budget range.

16:43

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

So here's the number for need to have for those items.

16:48

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

And here's the nice to have or the growth plan so we can clearly see

16:52

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

it.

16:52

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

That's going to be really important in terms of conversations with government because

16:57

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

they'll be interested in that growth plan.

16:59

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

They'll be interested in the long range,

17:00

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

but they also need to know where are we starting and what does that look like?

17:03

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

Yeah, and I would just be cautious because nice to have the need to

17:07

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

have, then the nice to have that's kept prematurely,

17:10

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

right? So it's not to say that these specialty services aren't essential to

17:14

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

have in some form.

17:15

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

It's just a question of scale.

17:17

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So we have like a super huge low vision rehab clinic

17:21

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

because...

17:22

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

we have evolved for over 40 years and we're known for it,

17:26

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

right? Like we have a huge multidisciplinary team.

17:28

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

We actually have separate funding from the Ontario government to support the staffing

17:32

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

for that as well.

17:33

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So what'll happen is as you hire faculty in these different spaces,

17:37

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

they'll have different aptitudes and passions and connections.

17:40

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

And when you get them in front of the appropriate either funder,

17:43

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

donor, government,

17:44

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

whoever, you can then kind of create those things.

17:47

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So I think

17:49

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

for us what would be good is rather than nice to have need to have scope

17:53

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

out the whole thing and then from there you guys can you

17:57

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

know query us and ask us okay well is this something we phase or triage

18:01

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

or you know if we shrink this what are the implications and it really

18:05

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

will come down to how many of your students are able to actually participate and whether

18:10

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

you want to also add a residency program because that's another area of demand and

18:14

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

those specialty areas are related to that kind of training

18:22

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

yeah makes sense my brain comes at this a slightly

18:26

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

different way but you know i agree from a storytelling point of view and

18:30

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

i mean i appreciate your point that if you frame it as need versus nice that can mean

18:34

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

you never get the nice but maybe i we would frame it as base

18:38

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

and then the plan for growth um but

18:42

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

i do i do need to be able to see what

18:47

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

is the

18:49

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

what's the what can't we go below i guess is maybe what i

18:53

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

you know like that's maybe what i'm trying to drive at is like what is what do we

18:57

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

absolutely have to have and and then yeah growth

19:01

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

growth is great and like i can see how it will evolve once you get humans into

19:06

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

it and they're like oh but we can take this and do this and they get creative and they want to expand

19:10

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

and explore and that's great and natural and will happen but

19:14

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

we need to know clearly where we have to at least start from

19:19

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

So is there a need to have a rehab component

19:23

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

in some way,

19:25

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

shape, or form?

19:26

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

That's a growth piece,

19:29

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

I think.

19:29

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

I would characterize that as a growth piece.

19:31

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

Okay.

19:34

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

And what I'm trying to get,

19:37

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

I mean, definitely growth,

19:38

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

but should you need to incorporate it?

19:42

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

Is there a way to do it flexibly given the

19:46

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

number of exam rooms we have or the large,

19:49

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

could one of the large exam rooms or is there some flexibility

19:53

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

built in to at least begin that

19:57

S… Speaker 4 (New Recording 14)

or somehow?

20:00

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

incorporate that without adding area.

20:02

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

You know,

20:03

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

we talked about maximizing utilization.

20:06

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

So I'll defer to...

20:11

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

I would have to look more carefully,

20:15

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

but I think every school that's accredited has a low vision space.

20:19

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So that's why I wouldn't characterize it as growth per se.

20:23

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

But I can appreciate it.

20:25

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

Sorry,

20:26

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

just for my own learning,

20:27

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

does rehab only mean low vision?

20:29

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

Because what we had talked about in our last conversation was rehab meaning

20:33

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

all kinds of things.

20:35

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So low vision rehab is a traditional sort of marker

20:39

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

that's recognized by the American schools and colleges as well as the ACOE.

20:44

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

But within that,

20:45

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

it's now an umbrella that includes acquired brain injury.

20:49

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

On the performance side,

20:51

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

it's sports vision.

20:52

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So it has a lot of different connotations.

20:56

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

But we've actually gone further and combined it with vision therapy.

20:59

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So that's not necessarily done everywhere.

21:03

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

But to Sammy's point,

21:04

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

it's one where we have big rooms that you don't want to have empty.

21:07

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

And so we alternate between our low vision clinic and our VT clinic is the

21:11

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

plan for the new space.

21:13

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So that way it's multi -purpose.

21:15

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

It's sort of rationalized so that we don't have,

21:18

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

you know, more space than can be utilized effectively.

21:22

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

And it does come into sort of that what is the minimal

21:26

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

footprint to accomplish the task that you want.

21:28

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So, I mean.

21:31

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

As this sort of starts to take shape,

21:33

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

I do appreciate how you're trying to frame it,

21:35

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

Naomi. I think it'd be good to have further conversations as we have more examples

21:39

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

because I am a bit uncomfortable with framing it as growth because you

21:44

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

have to have some of these key elements in there for the creditors

21:48

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

to see that you actually can address it.

21:50

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

What they don't dictate is how big the space is or how many students have to go through

21:54

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

it. But if it's missing because it's a growth piece,

21:56

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

then I think that would be a mistake.

22:00

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Yeah.

22:00

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Okay.

22:00

S… Speaker 5 (New Recording 14)

I appreciate that.

22:01

S… Speaker 6 (New Recording 14)

Yeah.

22:02

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

Okay.

22:06

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

So maybe we'll just go back to 10 because I am mindful of time and I think we want to get through as much because

22:10

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

I, again,

22:11

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

I'm going to just look to Lily and cause,

22:13

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

uh, in order to answer some of these things,

22:15

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

we're going to have to get more of the team together to get there.

22:18

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

And then we can take these smaller conversations offline and then be able to kind

22:23

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

of, you know,

22:23

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

iterate a little bit more quickly.

22:24

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

So yeah,

22:25

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

no,

22:26

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

it definitely don't,

22:27

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

cause this is exactly why.

22:29

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

do this you know you guys are you guys are creating your space just

22:33

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

like we create drawings and building you guys are creating your program it's fascinating for me to watch

22:37

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

you create a program just like it's fascinating for you to watch me do a

22:41

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

program and draw it design it i remember this well with great fondness

22:46

S… Speaker 2 (New Recording 14)

tim i think this is part of this is the most fun for sure this is the sort of the creative

22:50

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

juices get flowing so absolutely absolutely

22:52

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

So if we actually back up to G .22,

22:55

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

which is pre -testing,

22:56

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

so we talked about exam rooms and we'll get a little better understanding

23:01

S… Speaker 1 (New Recording 14)

of those.

23:01

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

In addition to the exam rooms,

23:03

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

we have the actual spaces for your OCTs,

23:07

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

your GVFs,

23:08

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

your HVFs,

23:08

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

your any of those other testing stations.

23:12

S… Speaker 3 (New Recording 14)

So those are in addition to your actual exam rooms.

New Recording 14

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