Királyi Pál utca

0:00

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

okay so the first question is uh kata for you can you briefly describe your role and experience but mainly your role i think yes so um at elta i'm the head of the erasmus and international programs department which is officially called department of

0:25

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

Erasmus Plus and International Programs, yeah. And I'm also the Institutional Erasmus Coordinator and I work at ELTA since 2018 in November.

0:41

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

But before that, I used to work for another university from 2014, also as an institutional Erasmus coordinator. So it's altogether 12 years of experience within this topic and regarding staff trainings as well.

1:02

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

Perfect. What role do staff trainings in general, not necessary Erosmos Plus staff trainings, play in your institution's development strategy? That's quite a difficult question. It's very general. Yes. I'm not aware of general staff training strategy.

1:26

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

neither of an HR strategy that involves staff trainings as such I know that there are initiatives now to make it more strategic so towards a more strategic approach what is happening at the moment that we have an internet

1:57

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

like the website platform that is that is collecting all the trainings that are already offered by ELTA and for its stuff these are different kind of trainings some of them are obligatory like those that are connected to safety and safety measures work safety and

2:28

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

Fire or something, yes. Other ones are just complementary.

2:35

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

And there is also a plan to include them to somehow the performance, but these are still baby steps. So there is no strategy that I'm aware of in terms of admin stuff, neither from teaching stuff. So just for the record, that's all for the strategic part.

3:11

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

All right, yeah, we covered the general staff trainings, but let's talk about Erasmus Plus staff trainings now. What's your general opinion about that and knowledge that you want to share with us? Yes, so I think it's a very, very important opportunity for higher education staff in general and for specifically at ELTE as well.

3:39

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

I think it's a great initiative in order to support the institutional internationalization processes. It's really, really important to provide the staff with trainings that are...

4:01

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

that are connected to their work field, but more specifically in the international environment. We really see that stuff that partakes in these kind of trainings come back with wider point of views, more internationalized approaches, best practices. So I think it's a very, very important initiative. Also at ELTA, we realize more than 800...

4:28

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

staff mobilities in general, most of them are staff trainings, so around 600 of them are staff trainings, so many people are involved. However, sometimes the quality offer of these trainings is not that, so that's why we are also participating in this project. So I think it should be more regulated.

5:00

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

also by the Commission to ensure quality standards. Because the high number of staff mobilities also in terms of not just in the context of ELTA, but there is a tendency of higher number of staff throughout Europe.

5:28

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

getting more and more attention and if the decision makers don't take into account or decision makers are not ensured that these are quality trainings they might be not supporting these initiatives so i think it's very important to pay attention to the quality aspects

5:49

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

Speaking of that, when an Erasmus Plus staff training is announced, but the detailed program is not yet available, what information should be included in the announcement to help you assess its quality and relevance? I think it's a very important question. Yes, yes. Because that's what staff meets for the first time.

6:12

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

So, I think it's a problem if the detail program is not yet available, it should have at least in the fall to have a preliminary program that gives enough information about the topics covered specifically enough. So, okay, it's understandable if the speakers don't speak the exact timeline is not published yet, but it should at least come.

6:42

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

have the main topics also the target group I think it would be very important to always highlight the target group of course organizational aspects like exactly where it will be taking place and when

7:06

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

and to help assess its quality and relevance. There is also important for the organizers' perspective to give some background information why they are involved in this specific topic, what kind of expertise they have. If they have the speakers there that it's an advantage, then you can assess.

7:37

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

or at least the institutional practices behind this. Yeah, I can also add that sometimes the target audience is said in a very general way that it's for staff training and for teachers, but it's not specific enough what field of work they should do.

8:09

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

that they should work on yes and it would be also nice to highlight what kind of outcome disciplines can expect so what skills or knowledge is developed in this context so something again quite specific yeah so the keyword is here is specific like make it more specific because usually it's it's so so general too general yeah yes

8:37

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

All right, let's move on to the next question. It's what are your expectations when a staff member is attending on an Erasmus Plus staff training? What are your expectations from the staff themselves? So yes, so I think staff should be prepared.

9:05

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

during the application period, so they know how they search for a specific staff training and what aspects should they consider. So that therefore, at Alta, we established also a quality framework that tries to direct staff in choosing staff trainings, because we are aware that the

9:38

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

there is not always quality so we provided them with some aspects i can like give you a link to it so you can include it in the report what are the main criteria of the framework so we expect them

10:00

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

to follow this framework and make sure that the training is somehow connected to their own work field and also they have to reflect in their application

10:19

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

what are the exact activities and topics they want to dive into and how it's connected to their work, how they disseminate it, how it's connected to internationalization strategic goals of the university.

10:48

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

They also have to justify that the number of days they are applying for are used for the training and that the content is enough for the days that they are asking for. So that's why I've also asked them to have at least four hours of professional content each.

11:13

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

We also expect them to consult with their boss, so they have their approval, also their guidance in terms of specific training they need to have. That's all I think. Is the framework that you described included in the evaluation process?

11:41

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

Yes, yes, absolutely. So we have two types of goals for application for staff trainings. One of them is for the administrative staff and the quality framework applies for them. The other one is for teaching staff, attending staff trainings, which are usually rather job shadowing events that are not training events. They have a different evaluation criteria.

12:15

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

All right, moving on. Are there systems in place to monitor or evaluate the impact of a staff participation in a training program? You kind of touched upon this already. Yes, so regarding the impact of staff trainings, we don't really have any systems that monitor.

12:57

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

Objectively? I'm still thinking, but yes, so in some sense, this framework, yes, it does already redirects the planning of the training in terms of the possible impact. So that's in the preparatory phase, but in the follow-up phase, just planning to have some...

13:29

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

initiatives to monitor and evaluate the impact for example we are planning to have a systematic database that collects experience reports that is available for both staff that is interested in partaking this type of trainings but also for decision makers who want to get information about this

13:59

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

these activities and further explore further possibilities of, for example, potential partnerships or training opportunities from a more strategic point of view based on this information. Can staff members share their experiences in a larger group so they can...

14:36

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

they can give a gist of how it was and maybe they can actually teach stuff, fellow stuff. So, yeah, this mission activities are also encouraged on a local basis.

15:00

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

But this is more to ensure that the impact is a little higher and at least the local department and the immediate boss of the participants knows about the outcomes. But this is not very systematic and not really...

15:31

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

systematically evaluated. We, of course, also have the information from the EU surveys, but we don't ask tools to evaluate these kind of more quality and sophisticated outcomes that the trainings might have not yet systematically. Perfect. In terms of Erasmus ICM,

16:06

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

that we realize staff trainings as well but it's usually more like job shadowing or individual visits but the monitoring and evaluation aspect is much more intensive there because of the genre of the program so we have to really monitor the outcomes yeah yeah all right what are according to you key elements of a high quality staff training

16:38

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

Key elements, so they have to address a specific topic, but not only topic, but it has to be clear what kind of skill sets they want to address and develop. They have to be built in a way that it assures that skills and competences are actually developed.

17:12

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

So there has to be this right pedagogical and strategic approach to it. Like, yes, the target groups have to be carefully identified while selected, ensuring the best learning experience possible. Also, regarding the selection of the target or the participants.

17:40

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

It is very important to also address the level of expertise, the different backgrounds, also a meaningful variance. I think it is important to have as much professional content as possible, so intercultural events are also nice to have, but the proportion is very important not to have like full days.

18:16

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

for intercultural events it backfire. It is really important to have just a platform for best practice sharing or just frontal sessions but it is also very useful if the participants can somehow get like some like hands-on

19:07

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

tips and knowledge and skills that they can use on the long term so resources yeah so it's not exactly so it's focused on some developing or some knowledge or tools that can be actually used on the long term these are the main key elements that come to my mind do you think field work

19:39

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

should be implemented at the end of the staff training like what we learned about and make it into action make it into practice and to evaluate at the end how did the group do so you what do you mean exactly like at the end

20:00

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

There was like a learning curve during the week and we learned about certain practices that could be implemented in our daily work. And there's like a fieldwork at the end, which can shine a light on...

20:24

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

what we learned during the staff training. So the fieldwork, what do you mean by fieldwork? It's a bad word to use, but like an exam that shows what you've learned and what can be put into practice. Interesting. I think some kind of reflection from the participants on what they learned and what they're taking home.

20:53

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

is very useful for sure it really depends i think on also if they can for example practically uh already apply their knowledge and practice what they learned during the frame of within the frames of the training or it is just more but it's also of course very nice if they can have an actual practical exercises they can they can do all right we are coming

21:29

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

to the end one of the last questions is what are aspects that can make a training impactful it's a very similar question to the last one it's not about elements but aspects so here i think it would be really important if trainings would be actually

22:05

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

strategically planned by the university and the immediate bosses as well of the participants because if they are strongly connected to the work of the trainee and participant the impact can be much more. The problem here is that we don't have this offer.

22:34

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

That ensures that all the aspects or the necessary skills can be developed or topics are touched upon. But I think character planning, strategic planning from leadership as well is crucial for higher impact. That can make training...

23:34

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

I think also one aspect is important that to make an actual impact to ensure that we are

24:00

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

looking into the topic from a very practical point of view and not theoretical point of view so creating an empathy and actual understanding towards the topic is a prerequisite to have a real understanding and real solutions and practices on a certain problem so I think this is important

24:30

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

because oftentimes even practitioners on the field can think theoretically about solutions so challenging the participants to have or bringing in real life examples, stories can really create an atmosphere where actual, meaningful

25:00

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

um learning experiences happening and they have a much better impact um also all right and uh

25:19

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

The last main question is, if you think of a framework, which you talked about already, to design high quality and impactful staff trainings, what should or what could this look like? What should be included and how would you use this within your institution? But yeah, first of all, what should and or how should it look like?

25:50

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

like frameworks should systematically describe all the aspects that have to be taken into account one organizing and designing a staff train so all the expertise this needs to be involved all the aspects that needs to be excellent

26:30

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

I really don't know what actually the toolkit and the framework would.

26:38

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

So I can imagine that the toolkit is more like examples, practical materials that can be directly used. But maybe the framework could also have some very specific recommendations. I think this is also really, really useful. Like if you have very specific recommendations on what to do, what not to do.

27:06

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

yeah like yeah so these kind of lists like also describing like what to do because of the effects and what not to do again from the possible effects that it might cause or a list of typical yeah it's probably the same like not to do but the typical

27:39

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

mistakes I think also timeline could be very useful for the organizational part so this is also very tricky like because I think it's also very important that trainings are require different skill sets so you have someone who does the content but you have someone who organizes and these

28:08

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

You think it should be different people? The framework has to definitely address all these aspects, because ideally it's different people, but if you have less people working on the same, they might not be able to cover all the aspects. So for example, a teacher, the content creator might not have the capacity and time to think through all the organizations.

28:39

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

which can be completely crucial for the outcome. Because if you prepare wonderful content, but you fail to realize one, to advertise your training and how much time you need and what are the target groups you need to reach and how you reach them, then you might fail. So I think the understanding of... And also I think...

29:17

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

Evaluation methods and forms could be also useful. It's probably, again, more like connected to the toolkit. But to have systematic evaluation practices to understand and to be able to include them in your next training could be also very useful. And one thing that could...

29:49

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

be also very could be very interesting and helpful is to give some information on possible

30:00

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

the most pressing topics or address or aspects that could be useful for higher education stuff but is not covered yet or usually are not covered.

30:25

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

So some reference to like skill sets that the IRO staff needs or other staff might need in context of higher education and internationalization. So I think this is also would be quite eye-opening. Like how many more, what could be still the main topics and what are we finding?

30:55

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

some examples or anything that helps to broaden this approach of topics themselves. I think this would be also very nice. And also some success stories maybe. Do you think that you should go deeply into these stories about how did the stuff we go and just give perfect examples?

31:29

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

Yes, so it's very important to build the framework upon actual experiences and analyze them. I don't think we need to include that part because that's evidently happening.

31:56

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

Perfect. So you basically answered the second question as well, what should be included. So to do's and not to do's, basic mistakes, and about the timeline, about the skill set that an organizer should have. And the aspects. And the aspects, exactly.

32:24

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

And how would you use this within your institution? Oh, the framework. Oh, yeah, I would be very happy to design our trainings accordingly. Also to initiate strategy conversations with our HR to better position Erasmus staff trainings.

32:55

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

to create a strategic framework for them uh and um and um possibly i don't know it can also yeah how would i use this equality of trainings which this look a lot quality and impactful stuff like i think it could be also used uh not just for the international trainings well but also

34:03

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

It would also be nice for the staff as well, I think, this framework, just for them to know what good quality staff training looks like.

34:18

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

I think it could be also included in informing them about the call for application, maybe. Yeah, I think this aspect is absolutely necessary, so it's not just for the organisers, but somehow since we don't have the power to influence or the staff training that are at the test, the staff needs to be also supposed further.

34:44

S… Speaker 2 (Királyi Pál utca)

Yes, we would probably use this framework to add some aspects to our already existing evaluation criteria to direct.

35:02

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

Perfect, Kata. Thank you very much for your time and valuable insights. Is there anything else you would like to add that we haven't covered yet? It's fine, don't worry. I think we covered a lot of important things. One last question. I mean, it's basically a...

35:30

S… Speaker 1 (Királyi Pál utca)

Yes, I hope. Sentiment, but... We will use the findings to develop a framework and a toolkit, and we may follow up to share the results or ask for your feedback. Would you be open for that? Yeah, absolutely. Perfect. Thank you, Gata. Thank you.

Királyi Pál utca

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