jimmy audio

0:02

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

When I say to you the depression,

0:04

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

what does that mean to you?

0:06

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

The depression to me means me looking at people

0:11

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

standing on soup lines.

0:13

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

The depression means waiters who are paying three

0:17

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

or four bucks just to get an opportunity to work a supper or to work a

0:21

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

dinner. Who would they pay?

0:23

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

The head waiter.

0:26

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Of course,

0:27

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

there was a lot of the cooks then sometimes used to sell the bowls

0:32

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

that hung around Bughal Square.

0:33

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They'd congregate there after a banquet.

0:37

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and they would sell chicken sandwiches for about 10

0:41

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

cents or 15 cents.

0:42

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Of course,

0:43

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

these same chicken sandwiches,

0:45

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

when they were sold to the bourgeoisie,

0:46

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

they cost probably,

0:48

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

at that time,

0:49

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

was probably six bits or 85 cents,

0:51

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

which was a hell of a lot of money,

0:53

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

damn near a fortune.

0:54

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

The soldiers at that time,

0:56

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

that is the fellows who had fought for democracy over in Germany and came back

1:00

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and trying to look for it here,

1:01

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

they were out of work.

1:03

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They were walking the streets.

1:05

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

not only of Chicago,

1:06

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

but the streets of South Carolina,

1:09

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

the streets of West Virginia,

1:11

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

the streets of New York.

1:13

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And the Congress had passed a law where they

1:17

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

were to get a bonus.

1:18

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I don't know when it was supposed to be due them,

1:20

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

but they figured that they should get the bonus right then and there because they needed

1:24

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

the money.

1:26

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

A fellow by the name of Waters,

1:28

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

if my memory serves me right,

1:30

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

where he came from,

1:31

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I don't know, got up the idea that if these ex -soldiers would go to Washington

1:35

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and march around the White House,

1:37

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

that they would probably be able to get the...

1:40

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

government to come through with their bonus then and there when they needed this money.

1:44

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I was with a fellow by the name of DC Webb who organized a

1:48

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

group from Bughouse Square to go on this bonus march.

1:52

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

We went down to the rail yards

1:56

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

on the south side of Chicago and we grabbed

2:00

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

a freight train and our first stop was in Peru,

2:04

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Indiana.

2:05

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

We jungled up there for a little while.

2:09

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And then we bummed the town,

2:12

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

so to speak.

2:13

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And those that have been on the road knows what I'm talking about.

2:17

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

Why don't you describe,

2:18

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

say, when you say bummed the town?

2:19

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Well, bumming the town,

2:21

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

we'd go to the different grocers and give them a tailor woe.

2:24

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And they would give us sausage or bread or

2:29

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

meat or canned goods.

2:31

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And then we'd go back to the railroad yard,

2:33

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

the jungles,

2:34

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

where we'd have a little fire.

2:36

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And we'd cook up.

2:39

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

We'd sit around this fire and eat.

2:41

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And then we'd,

2:43

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

after, especially if we find a big can,

2:46

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

after we got through cooking it,

2:47

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

it also, it became a wash space.

2:50

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And we'd all wash our hands and wash our faces in it,

2:53

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

too. This was a march that had no coordinating committee

2:57

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

or no steering committee.

3:00

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Every contingent was its own boss.

3:02

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

The D .C.

3:04

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Webb, they used to call him captain or commander or something,

3:07

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and he was the one that was the authority of the small

3:12

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

group that we were.

3:12

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And we took our

3:17

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

time as far as schedule.

3:19

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

We wasn't to get there on any specific date.

3:22

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

How did the marches,

3:24

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

how did the bonus guys get to watch?

3:27

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Here was one of the things that probably never got into the newspapers,

3:30

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

but when these fellows would be in these division points,

3:34

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

they would go to the conductor that would be making up the

3:38

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

train that was going to pull out,

3:39

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and then generally he would want to find out how many guys were there

3:44

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

in the yard,

3:45

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

so he would know how many empty boxcars to put into the train.

3:48

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Of course, the railroad companies didn't know this,

3:51

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

but these railroad conductors...

3:53

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

out of their generosity and out of their sympathy with the idea of the

3:57

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

bonus march,

3:58

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

would put two and three empty boxcars in the train so

4:02

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

these bonus marches could crawl into them and ride comfortably into Washington.

4:07

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

Well, this is very interesting.

4:09

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

There were certain set division points.

4:13

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Yeah.

4:13

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

Marchers would gather from different times.

4:15

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

Here was Peru,

4:16

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Indiana.

4:16

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Yeah.

4:17

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

You see,

4:18

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Peru, Indiana was the first division point outside of Chicago on the route

4:24

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

we took.

4:25

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

We took the C &O,

4:26

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

the Chesapeake and Ohio.

4:27

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And I don't recall all of the division points,

4:31

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

but Peru was one.

4:32

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And there was other places in Ohio.

4:37

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And at these division points,

4:39

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

that was where we would stop off and rest and scringe

4:45

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

up something to eat and lay over and sleep and get a little rest

4:49

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and then be on our way when the train would be made up.

4:51

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

We'd be generally told by the conductor when the train was ready

4:56

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

to go out so we could crawl in before it even started to move.

5:00

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

Conductors, in many cases,

5:02

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

this was nationally known,

5:03

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

the march was on its way,

5:04

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

and so conductors,

5:06

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

many of them were sympathetic,

5:07

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

and they set up without the railroad companies.

5:09

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Yeah, and even the railroad detectives

5:13

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

were very generous during that time.

5:15

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

After all, it was their job to keep trespassers off the railroads.

5:19

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And this was not like,

5:20

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

as I said before,

5:21

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

about the exodus from the Dust Bowl.

5:24

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

These fellows had come with their families,

5:27

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and...

5:28

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

by themselves,

5:30

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

something with their wives.

5:31

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They came mostly by boxcar.

5:35

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Can you imagine women and children riding box cards?

5:39

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

This is actually what happened.

5:40

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

Many of the bonus marchers took their families with them.

5:42

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Because after all,

5:44

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

many of these bonus marchers had been evicted from their flats or their houses

5:48

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

because they hadn't the rent to pay.

5:51

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Probably they owed the landlord three or four months' rent,

5:53

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

maybe sometimes more.

5:55

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And some of them were evicted and some of them just left and left their furniture behind them.

5:59

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

So did you, in these boxcars,

6:01

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

have you any idea how many,

6:02

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

did you ride in these boxcars?

6:03

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Yeah, we,

6:04

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

in fact,

6:05

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

we would ride in the boxcars and would

6:10

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

get to talk to these fellows from various parts of the country.

6:13

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I guess one of the reasons that we,

6:15

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

most of the people that we met came from the south.

6:18

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

We met a few from the east,

6:21

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

we met a few from the west.

6:22

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

But most of the people that I met,

6:24

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

most of the bonus marches that I met,

6:26

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

came from the southern states,

6:29

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

from South Carolina and Kentucky and down there

6:33

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

in what we'd call the,

6:34

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

well,

6:36

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

as Mencken used to call it,

6:37

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

the Bible Belt.

6:38

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

Remember how many people would be in a boxcar,

6:40

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

roughly?

6:41

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Oh, in a boxcar,

6:42

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

sometimes it'd be 50 or 60 people in a boxcar.

6:46

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

That many.

6:46

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

That many.

6:47

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And we'd be just sprawled out on the floor.

6:50

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

So what was life like?

6:52

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

The food was...

6:53

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Well, one of the

6:57

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

real worst parts of it was when we were going through Virginia

7:02

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

into, I think it was out of Ohio or something.

7:06

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I can't recall.

7:07

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

We had to go through Virginia.

7:08

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

We had to go through these mountain tunnels.

7:10

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And the smoke from the stacks

7:14

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

of the engines and the...

7:17

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Soot would be flying back through the tunnel and we'd be coming into these boxcars

7:21

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

so in order to avoid getting choked we would close the boxcars

7:26

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and hold handkerchiefs over our noses.

7:29

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

What about going to the toilet,

7:30

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

things like that?

7:31

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Well, going to the toilet,

7:32

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

you just had to hold it,

7:34

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

because you got to a division point.

7:36

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And as far as food is concerned,

7:39

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

you didn't carry it with you.

7:41

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

You had to bum the town,

7:43

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

as I said before.

7:44

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

You'd go to the local grocers,

7:46

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and you would bum whatever they felt

7:51

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

like giving you.

7:52

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

It was beggary on a grand scale,

7:54

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

that was all.

7:55

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And in one town,

7:57

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I can't recall the name of it,

7:58

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

the contingent that I was with from Chicago,

8:03

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

it was led by DC Webb.

8:05

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

We went into this town,

8:07

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I think it was a bandstand,

8:09

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

something,

8:10

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

it was a big platform.

8:12

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And he got up and made a speech,

8:13

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

a few of us made speeches,

8:14

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and we passed the hat even among the local citizenry

8:19

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and got a collection.

8:20

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I can't recall how much it was,

8:22

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

but the money was used to buy cigarettes for the boys

8:26

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and distribute them among the fellows that smoked.

8:29

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

What was the feeling of the townspeople,

8:31

S… Speaker 2 (jimmy audio)

the towns you stopped in?

8:32

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

The townspeople,

8:33

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

the ones there,

8:35

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

they were very sympathetic.

8:37

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

There was none of this hatred that you see now when

8:41

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

strangers come to town or strangers come to a neighborhood.

8:45

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They're generally resented.

8:47

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Why,

8:47

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I don't know.

8:48

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

That's one of the things about the Depression.

8:52

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

There was more comradery among people during the Depression than there is

8:56

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

now, although they're suffering from prosperity.

9:00

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And that was,

9:01

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I think,

9:02

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

one of the things,

9:02

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

the feeling that America lost.

9:06

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They're alienated now,

9:07

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and I don't know if it's their prosperity that's alienating them or not.

9:10

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

But during the Depression,

9:11

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

there was a real comradeship,

9:14

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

even more of a comradeship than the communists could ever think of or dream of.

9:17

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

People had different ideas.

9:18

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They disagreed with one another,

9:21

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

but there was a fine feeling among them.

9:24

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

You were in trouble.

9:25

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Could they help you?

9:26

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Damn it, if they could help you,

9:27

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

they would help you,

9:28

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

even though they had very little themselves.

9:30

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

One of the instances that happened there that stuck very vividly in

9:34

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

my memory,

9:35

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

it gave me a notion of how much

9:40

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

pride the Southerners have,

9:42

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

no matter how poor or how disheveled

9:47

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

they may be or how far down on the bottom of the social totem

9:51

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

pole they may be.

9:52

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They still have this particular pride,

9:55

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

especially when it comes to charity.

10:00

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

It wasn't charity that I was offering,

10:02

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

but we had reached a place

10:07

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

in Virginia,

10:07

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Charleston,

10:11

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

West Virginia,

10:12

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

it was outside of Washington anyway,

10:15

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and it was a very hot day.

10:20

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I noticed that in this jungle there was a man,

10:23

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

a very tall man,

10:24

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

about six feet tall.

10:25

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

He had a woman with him who was his wife and

10:29

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

several small children and an infant.

10:32

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

The infant,

10:33

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I don't think,

10:33

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

was a year old yet.

10:35

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And we invited them over to have something

10:39

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

to eat with us,

10:40

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and they refused.

10:43

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Then I brought something over to them,

10:46

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

an old pie plate,

10:48

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and then they still refused.

10:49

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And it was the fellow,

10:53

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

it was the husband evidently,

10:54

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

who told me that he didn't care for anything to eat.

10:57

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Well, I could see that the baby was crying from hunger.

11:00

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Finally,

11:01

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

me and some others went down to bum the center of town,

11:06

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and I figured probably that they didn't have any bottle to feed the baby with

11:10

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

or any milk.

11:11

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And I remember going into a drugstore and seeing

11:15

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

the druggist and bumming a baby bottle with a nipple.

11:19

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Now, can you imagine a guy bumming a baby bottle and a nipple?

11:22

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

But this actually happened.

11:25

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

It's not something like out of my

11:29

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

imagination.

11:30

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I remember I used to read Believe It or Not by Ripley,

11:33

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

but I went in.

11:33

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

It took me a great deal of guts to work it up,

11:37

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

but I went in and I told the fellow I wanted a baby bottle and a couple of nipples,

11:40

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and I explained the circumstances.

11:43

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Then I went and bummed the milk.

11:47

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

When I got back to the jungle

11:51

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

camp, it was kind of dark.

11:52

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

So I went over with the bed,

11:54

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I talked, I addressed myself to the man's wife and I told her here was a baby bottle and

11:58

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

here was some milk.

11:59

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

We had even warmed up the milk.

12:01

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

But she looked at the husband and the husband

12:05

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

said he didn't want it.

12:06

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And what could I do about it but just feel blue that

12:10

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

the guy wasn't accepting,

12:12

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

it wasn't,

12:13

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I didn't look upon the charity,

12:14

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

he didn't want to accept my favor.

12:15

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

This was,

12:16

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

seemed to me that here was a fellow's pride that was getting the best of him.

12:21

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

It was puzzling to me,

12:23

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

but at the same time,

12:23

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

it was fascinating.

12:25

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And probably that's one of the reasons that these caseworkers,

12:28

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

these social workers down in the Appalachia is having so much trouble giving them handouts.

12:32

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

It's because these people have a sort of contempt for

12:36

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

people.

12:38

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They seem to earn their living.

12:40

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They don't want anything to be handed out to them.

12:43

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And it did give me a little insight into this psychology.

12:47

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

But I remember when we left that jungle that we

12:51

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

got him in the boxcar with his family with us.

12:54

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And some of us had blankets.

12:57

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

He didn't have blankets.

12:58

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And those who had a few blankets with him gave the blankets to his wife and

13:02

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

children to spread out so they could stretch out and sleep.

13:05

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Going through...

13:08

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Going through these tunnels,

13:10

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

we had to close the door in order to protect ourselves from the engine.

13:15

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And there was quite a discussion about this,

13:18

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

whether what would happen here was a little infant here.

13:21

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And we were afraid it would smother.

13:23

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And I went over and I asked the mother if she would talk

13:28

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

to the baby.

13:28

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

She was holding the baby,

13:29

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and I don't know whether she knew the baby was dead then or not,

13:32

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

but the baby seemed to be very still.

13:35

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And finally,

13:36

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

after we did reach Washington,

13:39

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

we found out that the baby had died going through the

13:43

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

tunnel. Now,

13:44

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

of course, when I got to Washington,

13:47

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

when we got to Washington,

13:48

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

there was quite a few ex -servicemen

13:53

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

there before us.

13:54

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And there was no arrangement for housing.

13:58

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Most of the men that had their wives

14:02

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and children...

14:03

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

were living in what they called Hoover Bills at times.

14:06

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

These were on what was known as the Anacondia Flats,

14:10

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

were across the Potomac River.

14:12

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And they had set up housing there made of cardboard

14:16

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and tin of all kinds.

14:18

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Whether the relief organizations there in Washington,

14:21

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

D .C.

14:22

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

was helping these people out or not,

14:23

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I don't know.

14:24

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I don't know how they managed to get their food.

14:28

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Most other contingents,

14:29

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

there was along Pennsylvania Avenue,

14:31

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

they were tearing down a lot of buildings along the street

14:35

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

there, where they were going to do some renewals to build some federal buildings.

14:39

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And a lot of the ex -servicemen just sort of turned

14:43

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

them into barracks.

14:44

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They sort of bunked there.

14:46

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

garages that were to be turned down,

14:48

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

that was vacant.

14:49

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They took over these garages,

14:51

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

had no respect for private property,

14:53

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

didn't even ask permission of the owners.

14:55

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They didn't know that all the owners was,

14:56

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

because probably the property had already been sold to the federal government.

15:00

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They came there,

15:00

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

what, to petition the person?

15:01

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They came there to petition Hoover to

15:06

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

give them the bonus before it was due.

15:10

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and Hoover refused it they were having a lot daily they

15:14

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

were having Hoover was having conferences daily with the

15:18

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

with the cabinet at the time and with other officers

15:22

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

of the government wondering what the hell to do about this situation.

15:26

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They told they couldn't get it because it

15:30

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

would make the country go broke.

15:32

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

The decision was made,

15:33

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

however, that they wasn't going to

15:38

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

get the bonus.

15:39

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

The question was now,

15:40

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

how were they going to get them out of Washington?

15:42

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

This was a big issue.

15:46

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

of how you're going to get these.

15:47

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They were ordered out of Washington four or five times,

15:50

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and they refused.

15:52

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I heard,

15:53

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I can't think of the chief of police's name at the time,

15:56

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

he was called out to send

16:01

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

them out of Washington,

16:01

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

but I heard they refused.

16:04

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Finally,

16:04

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

the one that they did get to shove

16:09

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

these bedraggled ex -servicemen out of Washington

16:13

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

was none other than the great MacArthur.

16:16

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Now,

16:17

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

this is one of the things that is a picture that I always

16:21

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

remember.

16:22

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Here is MacArthur coming down.

16:26

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Pennsylvania Avenue.

16:28

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And believe me,

16:29

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

ladies and gentlemen,

16:30

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

he came on a white horse.

16:32

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

He was riding a white horse and behind him

16:36

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

were tanks.

16:38

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

to find them were troops of the regular army.

16:41

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I think they were from some fort close by there.

16:44

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I can't remember the fort.

16:45

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And they were actually,

16:48

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

they actually,

16:49

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

this was really a riot that wasn't a riot in

16:53

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

a way.

16:54

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They were pushing these,

16:56

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

when these ex -soldiers wouldn't move,

16:58

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

they'd poke them with their bayonets or hit them on

17:02

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

the head with the butt of the rifle.

17:05

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

A big colored soldier,

17:07

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

about six foot tall.

17:08

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

He had a big American flag he

17:12

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

was carrying.

17:13

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

It was a huge flag.

17:14

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And I remember...

17:16

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

He was a bonus marcher?

17:16

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

This fellow was one of the bonus marchers.

17:18

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I didn't know his name.

17:19

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

But he turned to one of the soldiers that was pushing

17:24

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

him along and saying,

17:24

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Get along there,

17:25

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

you big black bastard.

17:26

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

That was a...

17:28

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And he turned to me,

17:29

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

he says, don't try to push me.

17:30

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

He says, I fought for this flag.

17:32

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

He says, I fought for this flag in France.

17:34

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

He said, I'm going to fight for New York,

17:35

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Pennsylvania Avenue.

17:37

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And the soldier hit him on the side of the legs with

17:41

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

the bayonet,

17:42

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

that is the side of the bayonet,

17:43

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

hit him on the legs,

17:44

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and he went down.

17:46

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

I think he was injured,

17:47

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and I don't know if he was sent to the hospital or not.

17:50

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

This was the beginning of really...

17:53

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Well, it was really a riot in a way.

17:56

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

As night fell,

17:58

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

they went across,

18:00

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

they were given orders to get out of the Anaconia

18:04

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

Flats, they refused,

18:05

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

and they crossed there and the soldiers set those shanties

18:09

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

that these people were living in on fire.

18:13

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

These fires were something like the fires that you see nowadays that start

18:19

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

in these ghettos.

18:20

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

But they wasn't started by the people that lived there.

18:24

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

They were started by the soldiers in an effort as a last resort to drive

18:28

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

them out.

18:28

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

And so the bonus marchers straggled back the various

18:32

S… Speaker 1 (jimmy audio)

places they came from without their bonus.

Résumé

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